Author Topic: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?  (Read 3127 times)

Nordic Superman

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Here's a question; as a practicing Christian parent (if you don't have kids, imagine the scenario) would you find it OK for your kids school to serve only halal meat (animals slaughtered in accordance islamic rules) for ALL children?
الاسلام هو شيطانية

MCWAY

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 06:10:00 AM »
Here's a question; as a practicing Christian parent (if you don't have kids, imagine the scenario) would you find it OK for your kids school to serve only halal meat (animals slaughtered in accordance islamic rules) for ALL children?

1) What exactly are those rules?

(Of course, to avoid such controversy, you could send your kid to a 7th-Day Adventist school, where they don't serve meat at all).


Nordic Superman

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 06:25:50 AM »
Basically a ritualistic process of blessing the act in the name of God and muhammad. The actual slaughter process I don't need to explain here... look it up if you're that interested in their practice of physically slaughtering the animals. Also certain meats can't be halal, pork for example.
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MCWAY

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 07:06:48 AM »
Basically a ritualistic process of blessing the act in the name of God and muhammad. The actual slaughter process I don't need to explain here... look it up if you're that interested in their practice of physically slaughtering the animals. Also certain meats can't be halal, pork for example.


I know of no school that would do that, other than a private Muslim school. If a Christian parent is sending his kid there, that basically answers your question. As I said, when speaking about that issue with the lesbian students getting expelled from a CA Lutheran high school, if you attend a certain school (or send you child to such an institution), you agree to play by their rules.


Nordic Superman

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 07:49:08 AM »
This happened in Britain, meals were changed to accommodate muslims (here's a search...).

Let's say your kid's school changed it's meals so that any meat was halal. What would you response be? Is it permissible as a Christian to eat halal meat?
الاسلام هو شيطانية

MCWAY

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 10:47:20 AM »
This happened in Britain, meals were changed to accommodate muslims (here's a search...).

Let's say your kid's school changed it's meals so that any meat was halal. What would you response be? Is it permissible as a Christian to eat halal meat?

This process sounds just like the kosher process that Jewish people use, which I believe is based on the health laws in Leviticus. So, I don’t see what the issue is (besides the prayer things), which I’m sure would be of little issue to some Christians (as a simple prayer over their own food would be suffice).

Of course, as mentioned earlier, you have the option of either sending your child to a school that doesn't serve meat at all (or, at the very least, make his lunch at home and have him carry it to school).

Butterbean

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2009, 02:55:14 PM »
Nordic I just scanned over this but this might help answer:
http://www.rationalchristianity.net/food_idols.html



Food sacrificed to idols can/cannot be eaten

Romans 14:14
As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself.


1 Corinthians 10:25-27 (also 1 Cor 8:4-8)

Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."

If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience.
-------------------------------------

Acts 15:29

You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.


1 Corinthians 10:20-21

...the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.


Revelation 2:20

Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul's teaching, which he explains in Romans 14:14-23 and 1 Corinthians 8:4-13, is that eating food sacrificed to idols is not wrong in and of itself, but is better avoided for the sake of Christians who think it is wrong and would consequently be led into sin (Rom 14:23).

While eating food that has been sacrificed to idols is not wrong, participating in idol worship is. Part of the idol worship of the time may have involved sacrificing meat to an idol and then feasting on the meat in celebration of the idol. In this case, participating in the feast would be participating in the worship of the idol, just as partaking of Communion is an act of worshipping Christ - a parallel Paul draws in 1 Corinthians 10:15-18. Therefore vv. 20-21 refer to eating sacrificed meat at an idol feast and thus practicing idolatry (as opposed to buying sacrificed meat in the market, or eating sacrificed meat at an ordinary meal in someone's home).

The condemnation of eating sacrificed meat in Acts 15:29 and Revelation 2:20 probably refers to participation in an idol feast, but could also refer to the sin of leading others into sin by eating it (1 Cor 8:10-12).


R

Nordic Superman

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 01:45:17 AM »
Well done Stella, you won :P

I especially like this (in comparison to Jewish / Islamic beliefs):

Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Butterbean

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2009, 07:01:13 AM »
Well done Stella, you won :P


wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
R

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2009, 05:08:28 AM »
Nordic I just scanned over this but this might help answer:
http://www.rationalchristianity.net/food_idols.html



Food sacrificed to idols can/cannot be eaten

Romans 14:14
As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself.


1 Corinthians 10:25-27 (also 1 Cor 8:4-8)

Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."

If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience.
-------------------------------------

Acts 15:29

You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.


1 Corinthians 10:20-21

...the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.


Revelation 2:20

Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul's teaching, which he explains in Romans 14:14-23 and 1 Corinthians 8:4-13, is that eating food sacrificed to idols is not wrong in and of itself, but is better avoided for the sake of Christians who think it is wrong and would consequently be led into sin (Rom 14:23).

While eating food that has been sacrificed to idols is not wrong, participating in idol worship is. Part of the idol worship of the time may have involved sacrificing meat to an idol and then feasting on the meat in celebration of the idol. In this case, participating in the feast would be participating in the worship of the idol, just as partaking of Communion is an act of worshipping Christ - a parallel Paul draws in 1 Corinthians 10:15-18. Therefore vv. 20-21 refer to eating sacrificed meat at an idol feast and thus practicing idolatry (as opposed to buying sacrificed meat in the market, or eating sacrificed meat at an ordinary meal in someone's home).

The condemnation of eating sacrificed meat in Acts 15:29 and Revelation 2:20 probably refers to participation in an idol feast, but could also refer to the sin of leading others into sin by eating it (1 Cor 8:10-12).





You have to Google Fu for everything?

Why not just answer what your own Christian beliefs tells you?
As empty as paradise

Nordic Superman

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2009, 05:29:58 AM »
You have to Google Fu for everything?

Why not just answer what your own Christian beliefs tells you?

Pretty frivolous statement normally; she isn't expected to know everything contained within the Bible like some muslim girls are forced to do in Pakistan. But yes, if Christians must search for information regarding what their religion deems they can eat (which is quite central to any persons life) is quite embarrassing.
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Butterbean

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2009, 06:27:35 AM »

You have to Google Fu for everything?

Why not just answer what your own Christian beliefs tells you?
I figured he was talking about the meat sacrificed to idols scriptures and so I looked them up so as to post the actual scripture.  That explanation came up and I agree w/it so I posted it.

Sorry if you didn't like my post :'(

Pretty frivolous statement normally; she isn't expected to know everything contained within the Bible like some muslim girls are forced to do in Pakistan. But yes, if Christians must search for information regarding what their religion deems they can eat (which is quite central to any persons life) is quite embarrassing.
I know as a Christian I am free to eat anything.  I just wanted to put the actual scriptures in there for you.  No, I don't know the actual book and verse of everything in the bible as I haven't memorized the whole bible.  If you don't want me to post the scriptures you could state that.
R

Nordic Superman

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2009, 07:35:26 AM »
I figured he was talking about the meat sacrificed to idols scriptures and so I looked them up so as to post the actual scripture.  That explanation came up and I agree w/it so I posted it.

Sorry if you didn't like my post :'(
I know as a Christian I am free to eat anything.  I just wanted to put the actual scriptures in there for you.  No, I don't know the actual book and verse of everything in the bible as I haven't memorized the whole bible.  If you don't want me to post the scriptures you could state that.

I did want you to post that. I'm emphasizing that as a Christian you are free to eat everything as long as it is not sacrificed for a false prophet (muhammad) or false gods (paganism). That is to say, you are not to eat anything sacrificed in the name of muhammad. Christians on an whole are not vocal about this issue.
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Migs

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2009, 07:39:34 AM »
i don't believe in pandering to any religion/belief.  They can bring there own lunch, or eat something else on the menu.  Why not make everything vegan to appease the tree huggin hippies.  Also ban leather shoes and institute berkinstocks since they don't offend the PETA people.

24KT

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2009, 04:25:14 PM »
Turn over the box on most products people buy in their supermarkets, and you will see most mass merchandized product have been certified both Kosher and Halal. so by Nordic's representation of what this certification means, Most goods purchased in your local supermarkets have been made in the name of the Jewish God, and the Muslim God, ...and if s/he is a Christian, it is blessed in Jesus' name before consumed.

Basically a ritualistic process of blessing the act in the name of God and muhammad. The actual slaughter process I don't need to explain here... look it up if you're that interested in their practice of physically slaughtering the animals. Also certain meats can't be halal, pork for example.

The Kosher / Halal certification has to do with the slaughter of the animal.
It is not about the prayer, but rather the process by which the animal is slaughtered.
And the reason pork cannot be halal, is because pork is FORBIDDEN.
How can you certify something as safe to eat when you deem it forbidden to even consume.

It is simple. Toxins accumulate all the way up the food chain.

If you eat a steak that came from a cow that has been pumped up with steroids, anti-biotics, countless drugs, and is full of toxins, ...as the end consumer, ...you will be chock full of steroids, anti-biotics, countless drugs etc. That might not be a concern for the likes of those who read this forum, but by the large, the rest of society has no interest in consuming steroids or massive doses of anti-biotics. That's how we get rampant strains of infections that are resistant to any treatment... Too many people consuming too many anti-biotics

In typical North American slaughter houses, cattle is killed brutally. The animal is not unaware that he is being led to his death. The bleating of the other animals before him communicate that fact. Fear and terror takes over and all sorts of adrenaline and other toxins pour into the blood. The animal is slaughtered and you have meat loaded with toxins that are consumed by the end user (the meat eater)

In the Kosher / Halal process, the animal is slaughtered withOUT the associated terror.
The animal has no idea it is coming, and he is dead in the blink of an eye. No prolonged suffering, and no poisonous toxins leaching into it's blood stream to be consumed by humans at their dinner table. In addition, as soon as the animal is killed, ...all the blood is drained out of the animal to further ensure the meat itself will be a cleaner meat.

It is a practice observed by many devout Jews and Muslims because their religion told them they should only eat kosher or that they should only eat halal. The practice was borne of science and is perpetuated by dogma. Today, many non jews and non Muslims, choose to purchase and consume foods that are Kosher/Halal... not because we are Jews or Muslims, ...but because we understand what that designation means. To assume otherwise is tantamount to saying that only vegetarians eat organic. We all know that's nonsense right? Granted, you will find a larger number of vegetarians adhereing to an organic diet, but we know many meat eaters choose organic because they understand the different between produce grown with chemical pesticides vs. organically produced produce.


This issue is a benign non-issue as much as asking a group of hunters or those who believe in animal testing, if it would be OK for their child's school to contain soap that was not tested on animals, ...or to ask a bunch of people if it was OK with them if the shampoo used at their salon was not tested on animals. It's not about appeasing people, it is finding a solution that meets the requirements of a broader spectrum of people. It's no skin off their nose, ...but bring the religious aspect into it... and Nordic will try to whip people into a frenzy.

I never thought I'd see the day when nordic argued on the same side of muslims.
Some muslims, along with other religious faiths are upset and nordic is standing shoulder to shoulder with them.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=261113.msg3675084#msg3675084
w

loco

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2009, 04:30:38 PM »
1 Corinthians 10:25
Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."

Nordic Superman

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2009, 02:31:12 AM »
Hmm, huge lack of knowledge on Halal slaughter, I was talking about the slaughter of ANIMALS not sweets and other such products which don't require the ritual because they're not a living thing.

There is a prayer to a false idol (muhammad) which would be against Christian teachings.

Also, some argue halal / kosher slaughter is unacceptable:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/may/15/religion.world
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977086.stm
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MCWAY

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2009, 06:30:01 AM »
Turn over the box on most products people buy in their supermarkets, and you will see most mass merchandized product have been certified both Kosher and Halal. so by Nordic's representation of what this certification means, Most goods purchased in your local supermarkets have been made in the name of the Jewish God, and the Muslim God, ...and if s/he is a Christian, it is blessed in Jesus' name before consumed.

The Kosher / Halal certification has to do with the slaughter of the animal.
It is not about the prayer, but rather the process by which the animal is slaughtered.
And the reason pork cannot be halal, is because pork is FORBIDDEN.
How can you certify something as safe to eat when you deem it forbidden to even consume.

It is simple. Toxins accumulate all the way up the food chain.

If you eat a steak that came from a cow that has been pumped up with steroids, anti-biotics, countless drugs, and is full of toxins, ...as the end consumer, ...you will be chock full of steroids, anti-biotics, countless drugs etc. That might not be a concern for the likes of those who read this forum, but by the large, the rest of society has no interest in consuming steroids or massive doses of anti-biotics. That's how we get rampant strains of infections that are resistant to any treatment... Too many people consuming too many anti-biotics

In typical North American slaughter houses, cattle is killed brutally. The animal is not unaware that he is being led to his death. The bleating of the other animals before him communicate that fact. Fear and terror takes over and all sorts of adrenaline and other toxins pour into the blood. The animal is slaughtered and you have meat loaded with toxins that are consumed by the end user (the meat eater)

In the Kosher / Halal process, the animal is slaughtered withOUT the associated terror.
The animal has no idea it is coming, and he is dead in the blink of an eye. No prolonged suffering, and no poisonous toxins leaching into it's blood stream to be consumed by humans at their dinner table. In addition, as soon as the animal is killed, ...all the blood is drained out of the animal to further ensure the meat itself will be a cleaner meat.

It is a practice observed by many devout Jews and Muslims because their religion told them they should only eat kosher or that they should only eat halal. The practice was borne of science and is perpetuated by dogma. Today, many non jews and non Muslims, choose to purchase and consume foods that are Kosher/Halal... not because we are Jews or Muslims, ...but because we understand what that designation means. To assume otherwise is tantamount to saying that only vegetarians eat organic. We all know that's nonsense right? Granted, you will find a larger number of vegetarians adhereing to an organic diet, but we know many meat eaters choose organic because they understand the different between produce grown with chemical pesticides vs. organically produced produce.


Considering how old the practice is (again, the Kosher process is pretty much spelled out in the book of Leviticus), it appears that science has merely reiterated what Biblical wisdom has known from the get-go (and, this was before farmers started pumping 'roids into cattle).

As you said, it's a health thing. The same thing applies for eating seafood, restricted to such which has fins and scales.

This issue is a benign non-issue as much as asking a group of hunters or those who believe in animal testing, if it would be OK for their child's school to contain soap that was not tested on animals, ...or to ask a bunch of people if it was OK with them if the shampoo used at their salon was not tested on animals. It's not about appeasing people, it is finding a solution that meets the requirements of a broader spectrum of people. It's no skin off their nose, ...but bring the religious aspect into it... and Nordic will try to whip people into a frenzy.

I never thought I'd see the day when nordic argued on the same side of muslims.
Some muslims, along with other religious faiths are upset and nordic is standing shoulder to shoulder with them.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=261113.msg3675084#msg3675084

As I mentioned earlier, I see no issue with this. If the underlying issue is a mere prayer, then a simple "God is great; God is good; let us thank Him for our food" should cover it. Of course, the non-believers can always thanks Darwin for their daily bread.  ;D

No harm, no foul, and everyone's healthier for it. 8)

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Christians: Acceptable for your child's school to serve only halal meat?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2009, 02:44:31 PM »
1) What exactly are those rules?

(Of course, to avoid such controversy, you could send your kid to a 7th-Day Adventist school, where they don't serve meat at all).



the animals heads gotta be facing mecca
the animal cannot be a prego female
its gotta be as painless as possible...
the throat is slit (which has gotta hurt like a mofo)


thats what i know...and o yeah ya gotta recite the words" there is no god except 1 god"
the animal must be 2 yrs of age or older



basically  i think its gotta be quick and all blood must be drained from the animal....i remember reading some scientific backing of such once but i have forgotton...

PS i  didn't read this whole thread
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