Political ideology - who are we?

[Tre]

The 'Obama' thread got me thinking that this topic deserved its own. 

Here's where I stand on a few key issues:

Government size: WAY too large and designed to be non-productive. We need about a 50% reduction in the federal workforce.

Taxes: Income taxes should be no higher than 10-12% for federal, 2-3% for the state.  I'll need to work the numbers more, but would not oppose a moderate increase in sales tax. 

Military: Should be strong, very advanced, and well-equipped to wage necessary wars, but not be an occupation force.

Health care: Every American should have access to affordable health care...IF they wish to purchase it.  We've allowed Big Insurance to get *way* too big and it's time to reign it in.  Nurses should not be making $100,000/year while teachers are making $40,000.  A family of four grossing $80,000/year pre-tax income cannot afford to pay $600/month for health care. 

Education: Should be everyone's top priority, but it's not.  The people in power do not want a highly educated population, so that is why we don't have one.  People with more education tend to be more productive (at least that is the hope) and to pay more taxes and to spend more to support the economy. 

[Decker]

The 'Obama' thread got me thinking that this topic deserved its own. 

Here's where I stand on a few key issues:

Government size: WAY too large and designed to be non-productive. We need about a 50% reduction in the federal workforce.

Taxes: Income taxes should be no higher than 10-12% for federal, 2-3% for the state.  I'll need to work the numbers more, but would not oppose a moderate increase in sales tax. 

Military: Should be strong, very advanced, and well-equipped to wage necessary wars, but not be an occupation force.

Health care: Every American should have access to affordable health care...IF they wish to purchase it.  We've allowed Big Insurance to get *way* too big and it's time to reign it in.  Nurses should not be making $100,000/year while teachers are making $40,000.  A family of four grossing $80,000/year pre-tax income cannot afford to pay $600/month for health care. 

Education: Should be everyone's top priority, but it's not.  The people in power do not want a highly educated population, so that is why we don't have one.  People with more education tend to be more productive (at least that is the hope) and to pay more taxes and to spend more to support the economy. 

The federal government is too big at the moment.  The federal government should have enough employees to manage adequately all oversight bureaus and all military branches. 

As a matter of budgetary spending, here’s what the pie looks like:

The President's budget for 2006 totals $2.6 trillion. (Does everyone see how irresponsible a $1.6 trillion dollar tax cut is?) 

This budget request is broken down by the following expenditures:
•   $544.8 billion (20.90%) - Social Security
•   $512.1 billion (18.00%) - Defense
•   $359.5 billion (13.79%) - Unemployment and welfare
•   $345.7 billion (13.26%) - Medicare
•   $268.4 billion (10.30%) - Medicaid and other health related
•   $211.1 billion (8.10%) - Interest on debt
•   $88.7 billion (3.40%) - Education and training
•   $70.7 billion (2.71%) - Transportation
•   $68.4 billion (2.62%) - Veterans' benefits
•   $43.1 billion (1.65%) - Administration of justice
•   $38.4 billion (1.47%) - Foreign affairs
•   $31.2 billion (1.20%) - Natural resources and environment
•   $26.0 billion (1.00%) - Agriculture
•   $24.0 billion (0.92%) - Science and technology
•   $19.1 billion (0.73%) - Community and regional development
•   $17.8 billion (0.68%) - General government
•   $23.4 billion - Energy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget,_2006

I don’t think that includes the billions and billions paid out for the Iraq war.

Where do we want to start making cuts?  I think we can all agree that paying down the debt would be the most preferred place to start.  Does everyone remember when Bill Clinton’s economic plan/policy permitted the Federal Gov. to start paying down the debt?  That seems like billions and billions of dollars ago.

Taxes.  We should have a progressive graded income tax that’s not eviscerated by special interests.  Religious institutions should be taxed just like the rest of us.

Healthcare.  I want universal healthcare.  Let big insurance concentrate on its life, annuity and group annuity contracts and stay the hell out of healthcare.

[MB]

Healthcare.  I want universal healthcare.  Let big insurance concentrate on its life, annuity and group annuity contracts and stay the hell out of healthcare.

I agree on removing insurance from the equation.  What good is it to have insurance companies dipping their hands into the money being paid between you and your doctor?  It just drives up the cost.  Everyone is afraid of not having health insurance, but if healthcare costs were more reasonable, it wouldn't be such a big deal.  It would be no different than paying for vehicle maintenance when your car breaks down or paying for a plumber or electrician when needed.  Don't forget that health insurance costs also cripple many employers because of the huge premiums they must pay.  Remove insurance and let there be free market health care.   

[War-Horse]

I agree on removing insurance from the equation.  What good is it to have insurance companies dipping their hands into the money being paid between you and your doctor?  It just drives up the cost.  Everyone is afraid of not having health insurance, but if healthcare costs were more reasonable, it wouldn't be such a big deal.  It would be no different than paying for vehicle maintenance when your car breaks down or paying for a plumber or electrician when needed.  Don't forget that health insurance costs also cripple many employers because of the huge premiums they must pay.  Remove insurance and let there be free market health care.   

Exactly.   I used to have employees, but now have sub-contractors because they couldnt afford to contribute to healthcare cost.
I also dont have to pay their FICA and un-employment taxes anymore.    The system is very flawed.

[Hedgehog]

The 'Obama' thread got me thinking that this topic deserved its own. 

Here's where I stand on a few key issues:

Government size: WAY too large and designed to be non-productive. We need about a 50% reduction in the federal workforce.

Taxes: Income taxes should be no higher than 10-12% for federal, 2-3% for the state.  I'll need to work the numbers more, but would not oppose a moderate increase in sales tax. 

Military: Should be strong, very advanced, and well-equipped to wage necessary wars, but not be an occupation force.

Health care: Every American should have access to affordable health care...IF they wish to purchase it.  We've allowed Big Insurance to get *way* too big and it's time to reign it in.  Nurses should not be making $100,000/year while teachers are making $40,000.  A family of four grossing $80,000/year pre-tax income cannot afford to pay $600/month for health care. 

Education: Should be everyone's top priority, but it's not.  The people in power do not want a highly educated population, so that is why we don't have one.  People with more education tend to be more productive (at least that is the hope) and to pay more taxes and to spend more to support the economy. 

I love how you want a big strong military.

You also want for every American to have access to affordable health care.

And you also want education to be more prioritized.

All these things don't exactly come free.

But at the same time, you think the tax is too high.

WTF are you on man?

You want another fiscally irresponsible president like Bush, who will run up the national debt even further? 

Seriously?

[Deicide]

I love how you want a big strong military.

You also want for every American to have access to affordable health care.

And you also want education to be more prioritized.

All these things don't exactly come free.

But at the same time, you think the tax is too high.

WTF are you on man?

You want another fiscally irresponsible president like Bush, who will run up the national debt even further? 

Seriously?

Pale Blue Dot.

[War-Horse]

Pale Blue Dot.

Poor trap, is in a funk...

[Tre]

I love how you want a big strong military.

You also want for every American to have access to affordable health care.

And you also want education to be more prioritized.

All these things don't exactly come free.

But at the same time, you think the tax is too high.

WTF are you on man?

You want another fiscally irresponsible president like Bush, who will run up the national debt even further? 

Seriously?

The single biggest cost is PERSONNEL and in the very first line, I call for a 50% reduction in the federal workforce. 

Just like with your personal budgets at home, once you trim the fat, you'll be surprised at how much money you actually have.

[Tre]

Here are the numbers as of Dec 2005 and for the sake of discussion, we'll take them at their word:

http://ftp2.census.gov/govs/apes/05fedfun.pdf

This chart shows 2.7 million civilian employees with a total monthly payroll of $13.5 billion.  That's payroll alone...I'm sure that the various 'benefits' packages are costing another $3-4 billion each month and I don't know whether that combined $16+ billion accounts for retirement plans. 

Until Americans agree that there is a fundamental problem with the immense size of our federal labor force, we can make no progress, because those of us in the private sector - especially the self-employed - get stuck paying for lazy people's lack of productivity. 

Having spent a few years working amongst federal employees in different places, I can argue without question that we are severely overstaffed and have created a culture of inefficiency that the Republicans and Democrats continue to grow.

[Bindare_Dundat]

I love how you want a big strong military.

You also want for every American to have access to affordable health care.

And you also want education to be more prioritized.

All these things don't exactly come free.

But at the same time, you think the tax is too high.

WTF are you on man?

You want another fiscally irresponsible president like Bush, who will run up the national debt even further? 

Seriously?

In your expert opinion, could you please tell us who which canidate would make the best president and why?

[w8tlftr]

I love how you want a big strong military.

You also want for every American to have access to affordable health care.

And you also want education to be more prioritized.

All these things don't exactly come free.

But at the same time, you think the tax is too high.

WTF are you on man?

You want another fiscally irresponsible president like Bush, who will run up the national debt even further? 

Seriously?

For starters we can start cutting BS government programs and stop giving our money to foreign dictators that don't give a rat's ass about us.

When people have more disposable income they have more to invest and spend. This generates a strong competitive economy with job growth and more tax revenue.

[Tre]

a close friend works for the VA hospital system. (physician) he see's approx. 6-8 patients per day and constantly laughs at how unproductive the federal socialist system is. by comparison, when he was in private practice, he needed to see 50+ patients per day just to pay his overhead/bills and malpractice ins. he now works only 4 days per week, and is off for every silly holiday known to mankind.

now his favorite saying is "your tax dollars at work" (followed by a big laugh)


btw, he happens to be a bigtime republican.......because he hates people getting handouts !


interesting huh ? 

Your anecdote underscores my point perfectly.  There's a culture of federal employees (and don't think that the states are off the hook here!) who treat it exactly like what it is - welfare at work.

We've allowed it to grow out of control and the federal bureaucracy's only concern now is to keep itself 'necessary'. 

Americans should be outraged by this, but the problem is only going to get worse, because no one wants to offend their friends or loved ones who work for the guhh-ment. 

[Tre]

When people have more disposable income they have more to invest and spend. This generates a strong competitive economy with job growth and more tax revenue.

100% correct. 

[War-Horse]

For starters we can start cutting BS government programs and stop giving our money to foreign dictators that don't give a rat's ass about us.

When people have more disposable income they have more to invest and spend. This generates a strong competitive economy with job growth and more tax revenue.

The middle class will never have disposable income if the corporate elites are allowed to go overseas with our jobs.   Cheneys company is registering in caymen Islands to avoid medicare and unemployment and fica taxes.    They are a Texas based company and Have a HUGE govt contract in IRAQ.....(No bid, Im sure)

Oil will soon be $4.00 a gallon while the country goes into a crisis this summer as Jobs are lost and homes are emptied.
Without some basic reworking of mandated laws for our own best interest even the free market will collapse and the UN can begin its plan to disperse us into a cog on the wheel.

[Tre]

I saw gas for $4.09/gallon last week in Oakland. 

The terrorists have won.

[Deicide]

Poor trap, is in a funk...

No, you are in a funk to think any of this matters...

Pale Blue Dot...

[w8tlftr]

The middle class will never have disposable income if the corporate elites are allowed to go overseas with our jobs.   Cheneys company is registering in caymen Islands to avoid medicare and unemployment and fica taxes.    They are a Texas based company and Have a HUGE govt contract in IRAQ.....(No bid, Im sure)

Oil will soon be $4.00 a gallon while the country goes into a crisis this summer as Jobs are lost and homes are emptied.
Without some basic reworking of mandated laws for our own best interest even the free market will collapse and the UN can begin its plan to disperse us into a cog on the wheel.

You're right.

However, instead of getting angry at corporations for leaving we need to take a long hard look at ourselves as to WHY they are leaving. Why isn't it profitable for corporations to do business in America? Could it be unfair trade policies, high corporate taxes, self-serving labor unions? What's making them leave? Don't say "greed" that's a cop out. If it were profitable to stay "greed" would make them.

[War-Horse]

You're right.

However, instead of getting angry at corporations for leaving we need to take a long hard look at ourselves as to WHY they are leaving. Why isn't it profitable for corporations to do business in America? Could it be unfair trade policies, high corporate taxes, self-serving labor unions? What's making them leave? Don't say "greed" that's a cop out. If it were profitable to stay "greed" would make them.

Heres why.   The goal is to make profits and do this year in and year out.  But eventually the consumer who buys the product cannot afford it at a certain point because the cost of living surpasses the wages paid.  Now normally( if we didnt have import companies to offer lower cost products) then the market would have made a price correction to match wages.
However americans were givin the oppurtunity to buy at less cost...Oversea products.

Therefore the idea of a free market (Which our forefathers had in mind) was circumvented thru deals with other countries and no doubt kickbacks to line politician pockets.

I believe the free market would work if we kept out labor forces we couldnt keep up with.

I dont belive any amount of tax subsidies or perks will keep a corporation here if they are allowed to make a killing on profits in another country.  These trade unions, no matter how you spin them, will and are destroying america.

[w8tlftr]

Heres why.   The goal is to make profits and do this year in and year out.  But eventually the consumer who buys the product cannot afford it at a certain point because the cost of living surpasses the wages paid.  Now normally( if we didnt have import companies to offer lower cost products) then the market would have made a price correction to match wages.
However americans were givin the oppurtunity to buy at less cost...Oversea products.

Therefore the idea of a free market (Which our forefathers had in mind) was circumvented thru deals with other countries and no doubt kickbacks to line politician pockets.

I believe the free market would work if we kept out labor forces we couldnt keep up with.

I dont belive any amount of tax subsidies or perks will keep a corporation here if they are allowed to make a killing on profits in another country.  These trade unions, no matter how you spin them, will and are destroying america.

Good points.

I think our government fucked itself by getting in bed with China.

It won't be an easy fix.

[Tre]

Good points.

I think our government fucked itself by getting in bed with China.

It won't be an easy fix.

Even as an 8-year-old kid I understood that was a bad idea.  Even now, I am by no means an expert on economic theory, but I know that the constant "we need the Chinese markets" banter is lunacy.  There are a lot of wealthy people in China, but they do not have a billion or even a quarter billion people ready to pay the high cost for American imports.

[Hedgehog]

For starters we can start cutting BS government programs and stop giving our money to foreign dictators that don't give a rat's ass about us.

When people have more disposable income they have more to invest and spend. This generates a strong competitive economy with job growth and more tax revenue.

The last president who was known for supporting dictators was Ronald Reagan. Here's a few of the guys he was helping stay in power, through economical and military means:

Abacha, General Sani ----------------------------Nigeria
Amin, Idi ------------------------------------------Uganda
Banzer, Colonel Hugo ---------------------------Bolivia
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal ----------------------------Brunei
Botha, P.W. ---------------------------------------South Africa
Branco, General Humberto ---------------------Brazil
Cedras, Raoul -------------------------------------Haiti
Cerezo, Vinicio -----------------------------------Guatemala
Chiang Kai-Shek ---------------------------------Taiwan
Cordova, Roberto Suazo ------------------------Honduras
Christiani, Alfredo -------------------------------El Salvador
Diem, Ngo Dihn ---------------------------------Vietnam
Doe, General Samuel ----------------------------Liberia
Duvalier, Francois (Papa Doc) --------------------------------Haiti
Duvalier, Jean Claude (Baby Doc)-----------------------------Haiti
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, King ---------------------Saudi Arabia
Hassan II-------------------------------------------Morocco
Marcos, Ferdinand -------------------------------Philippines
Noriega, General Manuel ------------------------Panama
Pinochet, General Augusto ---------------------Chile
Stroessner, Alfredo -----------------------------Paraguay
Suharto, General ---------------------------------Indonesia
Videla, General Jorge Rafael ------------------Argentina
Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed ----------------------Pakistan



As far as your claim about disposable income - absolutely true. But the government has to raise the taxes when the economy is going well, to curb the inflation, to chill the economy.

Bush didn't do this. He instead cut the taxes, and increased the spending, through increasing the cost for the military.

And Tre and others seem to think that the Military is effective in its spending for some reason. Why is it legit for the Military to spend a 3rd of the budget?

It's one third of every dollar you pay in taxes.

[Deicide]

The last president who was known for supporting dictators was Ronald Reagan. Here's a few of the guys he was helping stay in power, through economical and military means:

Abacha, General Sani ----------------------------Nigeria
Amin, Idi ------------------------------------------Uganda
Banzer, Colonel Hugo ---------------------------Bolivia
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal ----------------------------Brunei
Botha, P.W. ---------------------------------------South Africa
Branco, General Humberto ---------------------Brazil
Cedras, Raoul -------------------------------------Haiti
Cerezo, Vinicio -----------------------------------Guatemala
Chiang Kai-Shek ---------------------------------Taiwan
Cordova, Roberto Suazo ------------------------Honduras
Christiani, Alfredo -------------------------------El Salvador
Diem, Ngo Dihn ---------------------------------Vietnam
Doe, General Samuel ----------------------------Liberia
Duvalier, Francois (Papa Doc) --------------------------------Haiti
Duvalier, Jean Claude (Baby Doc)-----------------------------Haiti
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, King ---------------------Saudi Arabia
Hassan II-------------------------------------------Morocco
Marcos, Ferdinand -------------------------------Philippines
Noriega, General Manuel ------------------------Panama
Pinochet, General Augusto ---------------------Chile
Stroessner, Alfredo -----------------------------Paraguay
Suharto, General ---------------------------------Indonesia
Videla, General Jorge Rafael ------------------Argentina
Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed ----------------------Pakistan



As far as your claim about disposable income - absolutely true. But the government has to raise the taxes when the economy is going well, to curb the inflation, to chill the economy.

Bush didn't do this. He instead cut the taxes, and increased the spending, through increasing the cost for the military.

And Tre and others seem to think that the Military is effective in its spending for some reason. Why is it legit for the Military to spend a 3rd of the budget?

It's one third of every dollar you pay in taxes.

You forgot Mobutu of the the Congo...he was an awesome dictator!

[Tre]

My take on the Reagan presidency is this:

At the time, the Soviets were seen as the biggest threats to America and to democracy.  Remember MAD (mutually-assured destruction)?  Reagan knew neither side wanted this and through diplomacy, he is credited with bringing an end to the Cold War. 

It's possible that I was just a young idealist who didn't quite 'get it' back then, but even today, I remain 'ok' with Reagan having used those dictators to maintain some semblance of stability in other regions during the time he was focused on the Soviets. 

[Tre]

And Tre and others seem to think that the Military is effective in its spending for some reason. Why is it legit for the Military to spend a 3rd of the budget?

The amount of waste is mind-boggling.  It's just one tiny example, but during a pre-inspection cleanup onboard my ship, sailors were ordered to dump over $10,000 worth of brand-new equipment into the ocean because a particular space was overstocked.  Moreso than materials, the real issue for me is the wasted manpower.   

[Hedgehog]

My take on the Reagan presidency is this:

At the time, the Soviets were seen as the biggest threats to America and to democracy.  Remember MAD (mutually-assured destruction)?  Reagan knew neither side wanted this and through diplomacy, he is credited with bringing an end to the Cold War. 

It's possible that I was just a young idealist who didn't quite 'get it' back then, but even today, I remain 'ok' with Reagan having used those dictators to maintain some semblance of stability in other regions during the time he was focused on the Soviets. 

I wasn't argueing you.

w8lftr was the one who brought the argument about filling dictators pockets.

So I thought it would be nice to keep things real, to sort out which president was a master at keeping dictators in place.

We could give George W Bush shit for not opposing Musharraf, for not dealing with the Chinamen. For not acting tougher against the dictators on the Saudi Peninsula.

But he, Clinton or Bush Sr are nothing compared to Reagan.