Why are UFOs always hiding from us?

[Straw Man]

It can only be seen properly from the skies.  Go figure.


Also, it's hilarious, don't you think we all have a great sense of humour?  It's not hidden.

really?

It looks like it carved out on a hill

even if it could only be seen from 200 feet in the air or 2000

so what???

what if the people who made that just thought a god lived in the sky and could look down and see it?

[xxxLinda]

hey, I just woke up in the middle of the night and remembered to tell you this:  They are doing a historical carbon dating dig around Stonehenge.  For the last 10-15 years it has been completely closed off to the public and they only let the Druids in when it is a full moon or something.


But I went there as a child and freely danced around in a circle and touched all the stones.  I'll be the first to post to you the findings of their carbon dating dig.


xL


It'll maybe be digital or in a better code....

[Straw Man]

I couldn't give less of a shit

thanks

[Nordic Superman]

just because you fake one doesn't mean they are all fake (or made in that same way).

It the same argument with photos/videos. 

TV shows will show someone making a fake and then imply that therefore they are all fake.

Most understand the flaw in this yet a portion of people will see it and arrive at that very conclusion. 

regarding crop circles, ufos, etc..I don't think there's enough information about any of the phenomena to start tying stuff together

This isn't a scientific argument nor would it convince any scientist worth more than 2 grains of salt.

Scientific procedures showed just how easy it was to make elaborate crop circles with easy planning and a group of students.

From the scientific standpoint this does in FACT show that it's highly likely to say that no crop circle on earth had extraterrestrial origins.

The UFO's is a different matter to crop circles.

[Straw Man]

This isn't a scientific argument nor would it convince any scientist worth more than 2 grains of salt.

Scientific procedures showed just how easy it was to make elaborate crop circles with easy planning and a group of students.

From the scientific standpoint this does in FACT show that it's highly likely to say that no crop circle on earth had extraterrestrial origins.

The UFO's is a different matter to crop circles.

I'm not trying make an argument that crop circles/crop pictures, etc.. are "real" whatever that means.  All I'm saying is that just because you show a way in which can be man-made does not in any way constitute proof that they are all made in that same manner.

All it shows is that this is one way of making them.

From briefly looking all I can find are people making very simple patterns in broad daylight.

I don't know much about the subject but I'd like to see that same group of scientist be able to reproduce one the larger, more complex pictograms in one night, in multiple locations, in complete darkness, without being detected, with all the weird biophysical anomolies, etc...

       

 

[calmus]

I'm not trying make an argument that crop circles/crop pictures, etc.. are "real" whatever that means.  All I'm saying is that just because you show a way in which can be man-made does not in any way constitute proof that they are all made in that same manner.

All it shows is that this is one way of making them.

From briefly looking all I can find are people making very simple patterns in broad daylight.

I don't know much about the subject but I'd like to see that same group of scientist be able to reproduce one the larger, more complex pictograms in one night, in multiple locations, in complete darkness, without being detected, with all the weird biophysical anomolies, etc...

       

 

HOw do you know they were produced in one night? and were the anomalies verified?

[Straw Man]

HOw do you know they were produced in one night? and were the anomalies verified?

I don't know that they were all produced at night but most are reported by farmers who say that the thing wasn't there the prior day. 

There is evidence of bio-physical anomolies.  Here's one link and you can probably find others:

http://www.bltresearch.com/anatomical.html

I have no clue what they are.  Whether they are a genuine mystery, etc... 

My only point is that just because a few people can go out in a field and make a similar pattern is not proof (in any way) that they are all made in that manner.

Other than that, the topic doesn't really interest me that much

[War-Horse]

I don't know that they were all produced at night but most are reported by farmers who say that the thing wasn't there the prior day. 

There is evidence of bio-physical anomolies.  Here's one link and you can probably find others:

http://www.bltresearch.com/anatomical.html

I have no clue what they are.  Whether they are a genuine mystery, etc... 

My only point is that just because a few people can go out in a field and make a similar pattern is not proof (in any way) that they are all made in that manner.

Other than that, the topic doesn't really interest me that much

The really complex ones are mathematical and filled with asrtological symbols.  Quickly done and not man made.

[Nordic Superman]

My only point is that just because a few people can go out in a field and make a similar pattern is not proof (in any way) that they are all made in that manner.

This is idiotic and doesn't make sense.

I could apply that thought process to just about ANYTHING.

The really complex ones are mathematical and filled with asrtological symbols.  Quickly done and not man made.

Absolutely false. The fact that you know that they contain astrological symbols further cements the ultra-high probability of them ALL being man made.

[Straw Man]

What's idiotic is thinking that just because a bunch of students can produce a replica that you've somehow proven the entire phenomena is produced in that manner.

If you can't understand why that's a fallacy then I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it again.

[Nordic Superman]

What's idiotic is thinking that just because a bunch of students can produce a replica that you've somehow proven the entire phenomena is produced in that manner.

If you can't understand why that's a fallacy then I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it again.

I understand your point 100%, but I must regurgitate:

I could apply that thought process to just about ANYTHING.

Like I said, scientific process has showed with high confidence that ALL crop circles weren't constructed by extraterrestrial lifeforms.

You want to hang on to that 0.0000001% probability then fine.

[Straw Man]

I understand your point 100%, but I must regurgitate:

Like I said, scientific process has showed with high confidence that ALL crop circles weren't constructed by extraterrestrial lifeforms.

You want to hang on to that 0.0000001% probability then fine.

the scientific process??  high confidence??

you mean one "experiment" which is nothing more than a bunch of guys saying hey let's go out in a field and see if we can make our own pattern??

I'm just not as confident as you that this explains everything (especially considering the documented physical changes in the plants of that have yet to be replicated or even explained)

Maybe I don't know enough about the experiment you're referring to. 

Can you send me a link?

   

[Nordic Superman]

Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_circle

[Straw Man]

Is this the experiment that you're saying proves your point to 99.99% certainty?:

Scientific analysis
In 2002, Discovery Channel commissioned 5 aeronautics and astronautics students from MIT to create crop circles of their own. Discovery's production team consulted with crop circle researcher Nancy Talbott, who provided them with three attributes which she believed set "real" crop circles apart from known man-made circles such as those created by Doug and Dave.[33] These criteria were:

Elongated apical plant stem nodes
Expulsion cavities in the plant stems
The presence of 10-50 micrometer diameter magnetized iron spheres in the soils, distributed linearly
Over the course of a single night the team were able to create a stereotypical "man-made" circle which they then attempted to enhance using the three criteria. The team used lengths of rope to plot their design and trampled the wheat down in a spiral pattern using lengths of wooden board attached to loops of rope. To meet criterion 2, they constructed a portable microwave emitter; using it to superheat the moisture inside the corn stalks until it burst out as steam. To meet criterion 3 they built a device - dubbed the "Flammschmeisser" - which sprayed iron particles through a heated ring. However, the device proved to be too time consuming to use and they were forced to finish the task using a pyrotechnic charge to distribute the iron around the circle. The circle was later analyzed by graduate students from MIT, who declared it to be "on a par with any of the documented cases". Their conclusion was later questioned by Talbott, noting that the team had only been able to recreate 2 of the 3 criteria. Talbott also expressed concerns that the iron particles were not distributed laterally. Furthermore, she felt that the team's use of night vision headsets and other technologically advanced items would be out of reach for the average hoaxer.[33]

-----------------------------

So one group of students from MIT made the pattern (no picture - I'd like to see how it compares to some of the really large and intricate formations) using all kinds of gear (night vision goggels, portable microwave emitter, etc..to recreate certain physical effects (why would the original hoaxers even bother with such stuff ... I mean before anyone knew about these things)

And eventually another set of students from the same school declared it "on par" with a geniune circle


I'm not really convinced

If you are then that's fine. 

I really couldn't care less either way

[ATHEIST]

They only hide from you (and they only probe people like you, they've a great sense of humour


I see lots of UFOs, all the time, most every night.  We smile and wave.

 the Greys always borrow my power tools, you would think my tools are to simplistic for them.

[Hugo Chavez]

Can someone just get a decent picture?

 

So everyone can say nice photoshop? 

[War-Horse]

Is this the experiment that you're saying proves your point to 99.99% certainty?:

Scientific analysis
In 2002, Discovery Channel commissioned 5 aeronautics and astronautics students from MIT to create crop circles of their own. Discovery's production team consulted with crop circle researcher Nancy Talbott, who provided them with three attributes which she believed set "real" crop circles apart from known man-made circles such as those created by Doug and Dave.[33] These criteria were:

Elongated apical plant stem nodes
Expulsion cavities in the plant stems
The presence of 10-50 micrometer diameter magnetized iron spheres in the soils, distributed linearly
Over the course of a single night the team were able to create a stereotypical "man-made" circle which they then attempted to enhance using the three criteria. The team used lengths of rope to plot their design and trampled the wheat down in a spiral pattern using lengths of wooden board attached to loops of rope. To meet criterion 2, they constructed a portable microwave emitter; using it to superheat the moisture inside the corn stalks until it burst out as steam. To meet criterion 3 they built a device - dubbed the "Flammschmeisser" - which sprayed iron particles through a heated ring. However, the device proved to be too time consuming to use and they were forced to finish the task using a pyrotechnic charge to distribute the iron around the circle. The circle was later analyzed by graduate students from MIT, who declared it to be "on a par with any of the documented cases". Their conclusion was later questioned by Talbott, noting that the team had only been able to recreate 2 of the 3 criteria. Talbott also expressed concerns that the iron particles were not distributed laterally. Furthermore, she felt that the team's use of night vision headsets and other technologically advanced items would be out of reach for the average hoaxer.[33]

-----------------------------

So one group of students from MIT made the pattern (no picture - I'd like to see how it compares to some of the really large and intricate formations) using all kinds of gear (night vision goggels, portable microwave emitter, etc..to recreate certain physical effects (why would the original hoaxers even bother with such stuff ... I mean before anyone knew about these things)

And eventually another set of students from the same school declared it "on par" with a geniune circle


I'm not really convinced

If you are then that's fine. 

I really couldn't care less either way

Holy crap.  that is an epic failure.  They had to use MIT kids with techno gear and still failed.  Ill bet it was a basic circle to!!!    No Pics = FAIL.

[Nordic Superman]

Straw Man, that's pretty frivolous evidence, and no it's not from the documentary I watched.

If you're not convinced, of course it must be aliens.

Holy crap.  that is an epic failure.  They had to use MIT kids with techno gear and still failed.  Ill bet it was a basic circle to!!!    No Pics = FAIL.

Your denial is unbelievable, you'll do anything to believe.

[Straw Man]

Straw Man, that's pretty frivolous evidence, and no it's not from the documentary I watched.

If you're not convinced, of course it must be aliens.

Nordic,

WTF?

That's from the Wiki link that YOU provided.

If that's not the "experiment" you're talking about then which one is it??

I've said numerous times in this thread that I don't think we have enough info on this phenoma or UFO's to start tying them together

[Nordic Superman]

Right, the wiki link attempts to provide an non-bias view. Which is great to get a good grasp of a topic.

I think the show I saw was a BBC panorama, not 100% sure tho, but it was certainly British.