Author Topic: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships  (Read 1638 times)

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« on: June 02, 2008, 07:00:42 AM »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/02/usa.humanrights

Duncan Campbell and Richard Norton-Taylor
The Guardian, Monday June 2 2008

The United States is operating "floating prisons" to house those arrested in its war on terror, according to human rights lawyers, who claim there has been an attempt to conceal the numbers and whereabouts of detainees.

Details of ships where detainees have been held and sites allegedly being used in countries across the world have been compiled as the debate over detention without trial intensifies on both sides of the Atlantic. The US government was yesterday urged to list the names and whereabouts of all those detained.

Information about the operation of prison ships has emerged through a number of sources, including statements from the US military, the Council of Europe and related parliamentary bodies, and the testimonies of prisoners.

The analysis, due to be published this year by the human rights organisation Reprieve, also claims there have been more than 200 new cases of rendition since 2006, when President George Bush declared that the practice had stopped.

It is the use of ships to detain prisoners, however, that is raising fresh concern and demands for inquiries in Britain and the US.

According to research carried out by Reprieve, the US may have used as many as 17 ships as "floating prisons" since 2001. Detainees are interrogated aboard the vessels and then rendered to other, often undisclosed, locations, it is claimed.

Ships that are understood to have held prisoners include the USS Bataan and USS Peleliu. A further 15 ships are suspected of having operated around the British territory of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, which has been used as a military base by the UK and the Americans.

Reprieve will raise particular concerns over the activities of the USS Ashland and the time it spent off Somalia in early 2007 conducting maritime security operations in an effort to capture al-Qaida terrorists.

At this time many people were abducted by Somali, Kenyan and Ethiopian forces in a systematic operation involving regular interrogations by individuals believed to be members of the FBI and CIA. Ultimately more than 100 individuals were "disappeared" to prisons in locations including Kenya, Somalia, Ethiopia, Djibouti and Guantánamo Bay.

Reprieve believes prisoners may have also been held for interrogation on the USS Ashland and other ships in the Gulf of Aden during this time.

The Reprieve study includes the account of a prisoner released from Guantánamo Bay, who described a fellow inmate's story of detention on an amphibious assault ship. "One of my fellow prisoners in Guantánamo was at sea on an American ship with about 50 others before coming to Guantánamo ... he was in the cage next to me. He told me that there were about 50 other people on the ship. They were all closed off in the bottom of the ship. The prisoner commented to me that it was like something you see on TV. The people held on the ship were beaten even more severely than in Guantánamo."

Clive Stafford Smith, Reprieve's legal director, said: "They choose ships to try to keep their misconduct as far as possible from the prying eyes of the media and lawyers. We will eventually reunite these ghost prisoners with their legal rights.

"By its own admission, the US government is currently detaining at least 26,000 people without trial in secret prisons, and information suggests up to 80,000 have been 'through the system' since 2001. The US government must show a commitment to rights and basic humanity by immediately revealing who these people are, where they are, and what has been done to them."

Andrew Tyrie, the Conservative MP who chairs the all-party parliamentary group on extraordinary rendition, called for the US and UK governments to come clean over the holding of detainees.

"Little by little, the truth is coming out on extraordinary rendition. The rest will come, in time. Better for governments to be candid now, rather than later. Greater transparency will provide increased confidence that President Bush's departure from justice and the rule of law in the aftermath of September 11 is being reversed, and can help to win back the confidence of moderate Muslim communities, whose support is crucial in tackling dangerous extremism."

The Liberal Democrat's foreign affairs spokesman, Edward Davey, said: "If the Bush administration is using British territories to aid and abet illegal state abduction, it would amount to a huge breach of trust with the British government. Ministers must make absolutely clear that they would not support such illegal activity, either directly or indirectly."

A US navy spokesman, Commander Jeffrey Gordon, told the Guardian: "There are no detention facilities on US navy ships." However, he added that it was a matter of public record that some individuals had been put on ships "for a few days" during what he called the initial days of detention. He declined to comment on reports that US naval vessels stationed in or near Diego Garcia had been used as "prison ships".

The Foreign Office referred to David Miliband's statement last February admitting to MPs that, despite previous assurances to the contrary, US rendition flights had twice landed on Diego Garcia. He said he had asked his officials to compile a list of all flights on which rendition had been alleged.

CIA "black sites" are also believed to have operated in Thailand, Afghanistan, Poland and Romania.

In addition, numerous prisoners have been "extraordinarily rendered" to US allies and are alleged to have been tortured in secret prisons in countries such as Syria, Jordan, Morocco and Egypt.

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2008, 07:02:36 AM »
I think ships are the way to go. No BS media trying to take pictures..no pesky Ammnesty International.
L

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 07:03:40 AM »
I think ships are the way to go. No BS media trying to take pictures..no pesky Ammnesty International.

lol,

your fan club will love you for that one!    ;D

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 07:06:08 AM »
I can't wait. I would imagine that the folks who end up on these ships are the worst of the worst. I guess if i were the spokesman I'd ask for proof.
L

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2008, 07:08:02 AM »
I can't wait. I would imagine that the folks who end up on these ships are the worst of the worst. I guess if i were the spokesman I'd ask for proof.
REally though,  if it's true, congress or someone needs to step in and stop it.

youandme

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11062
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 07:08:33 AM »
I think ships are the way to go. No BS media trying to take pictures..no pesky Ammnesty International.

haha right on, I was thinking the same thing.


headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2008, 07:19:47 AM »
Ozmo..unless u end up on the ship, don't worry about it. Besides all that salt air and sun, might be good for em. Maybe they get to fish. Hey doesn't sound to bad huh.  ;D

I would imagine somebody in Congress knows, if its true.
L

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2008, 08:04:03 AM »
Ozmo..unless u end up on the ship, don't worry about it. Besides all that salt air and sun, might be good for em. Maybe they get to fish. Hey doesn't sound to bad huh.  ;D

I would imagine somebody in Congress knows, if its true.

I do worry about it, of course, not becuase I'm worried about ending up on one of those ships becuase that will never happen, but becuase regardless of what those "detainees" have or haven't done, secretly imprisoning them on ships is a violation of basic human rights.  And last i check, at least before, BUSH and CHeney, we were more the good guys then we are now in the wake of our "detainee treatment" record..

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2008, 08:09:15 AM »
I'm with ya, except I'm losing the whole good guy bad guy thing. I think we look out for our interests period. i know we're billed as the good guys, and 75% of the time I guess we are, but sometimes we do things like this. It may be for a good reason but the means aren't. I know it offends or bothers good people like u, and I'm glad it does because this is a last resort tactic. Its used on horrible people trying to do bad things. It should not become a standard practice.
L

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2008, 08:16:05 AM »
I'm with ya, except I'm losing the whole good guy bad guy thing. I think we look out for our interests period. i know we're billed as the good guys, and 75% of the time I guess we are, but sometimes we do things like this. It may be for a good reason but the means aren't. I know it offends or bothers good people like u, and I'm glad it does because this is a last resort tactic. Its used on horrible people trying to do bad things. It should not become a standard practice.

Ok,  is it?  How do you know?  how do we know?   Why keep it secret then?  Shouldn't it be monitored by a third party?

I bet half the people on those ships don't even know what's going on.

Keeping them on ships indicates they (we) are doing something they (we) shouldn't be doing.   there are better ways to do that.  Like let the local governments get their hands dirty.

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2008, 08:46:47 AM »
If we're doing it, it should not be monitored by anybody. Its our war and our policy. I would havew to say that those on the ship are pretty bad folks. I think we put thme on those ships because they end up back "home" or elsewhere pretty quickly and we're trying to get actionable intelligence. We disagree and thats fine.
L

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 66395
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2008, 08:59:10 AM »
Ozmo..unless u end up on the ship, don't worry about it. Besides all that salt air and sun, might be good for em. Maybe they get to fish. Hey doesn't sound to bad huh.  ;D


Yep.  They can go from Hotel Guantanamo where they are literally fat cats to an ocean cruise.  :)

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2008, 09:05:33 AM »
If we're doing it, it should not be monitored by anybody. Its our war and our policy. I would havew to say that those on the ship are pretty bad folks. I think we put thme on those ships because they end up back "home" or elsewhere pretty quickly and we're trying to get actionable intelligence. We disagree and thats fine.

how do you know that?     How does anyone know that?  Since 9/11 no one has been mistakenly imprisoned in the name of the war on terror?   

right.

Sorry, we disagree, mainly becuase I'm not that trusting especially if they have to put people on ships and keep it secret.  if that doesn't smell like sh1t to you i can't help that.

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2008, 09:07:49 AM »
No problem...I guess my threshold for for BS is lower or my give a shitr factor is higher. If our rolls were reversed I think we'd be arguing each others points. Its all point of view.

We've made mistakes...but its been worth it as we have not been attacked.
L

War-Horse

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6490
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2008, 07:36:45 PM »
Fkn A  Hh6   do you hear yourself??      For you just to assume that there must be a reason for those on the ship is unbelievable.  And to just turn a blind eye to the rights of humanity??   Your so far gone,man.

Youve got some bad Karma coming your way....

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2008, 07:45:10 PM »
No problem...I guess my threshold for for BS is lower or my give a shitr factor is higher. If our rolls were reversed I think we'd be arguing each others points. Its all point of view.

We've made mistakes...but its been worth it as we have not been attacked.
Fkn A  Hh6   do you hear yourself??      For you just to assume that there must be a reason for those on the ship is unbelievable.  And to just turn a blind eye to the rights of humanity??   Your so far gone,man.

Youve got some bad Karma coming your way....


Actually, i see HH6 POV here.  I've been around the military all my life.  My Father is retired military and DOD, Civil service retired. 

HH6 has first hand knowledge of how evil some of those people are.  It only stands to reason he's somewhat trusting of the military and their reasons for doing what they are doing. 

While, i think, from my POV, that there shouldn't be secret prison ships and there likely something wrong going on.

He's kind of right, I might share some of his views if i was in the military right now.  But i don't know about this one with the prison ships.  If it's even true.


Tre

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16548
  • "What you don't have is a career."
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2008, 06:26:17 AM »

At sea, no one is accountable to anyone. 

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2008, 06:59:21 AM »
And there is no media  and Amnesty whining. Not that what they do isn't a bad thing. Hey War Pony..ur world view is naive. The douchbags we're fighting don't follow any rules period. They cut ur head off on U-Tube. I don't care at all about Human Rights when it comes to these people. These are people that mastermind 911 style attacks, blow up women and kids. These people try and kill my fellow soldiers. I don't know what planet ur on, but on mine we hate the bad guys and don't give a shit about them. There two types of war, total war and peace. If this is true the CIA is trying to win this one. If ur choice was 911 or some douchebag on a CIA owned freighter getting his nuts in a vise, what would u pick.
L

War-Horse

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6490
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2008, 09:13:45 AM »
And there is no media  and Amnesty whining. Not that what they do isn't a bad thing. Hey War Pony..ur world view is naive. The douchbags we're fighting don't follow any rules period. They cut ur head off on U-Tube. I don't care at all about Human Rights when it comes to these people. These are people that mastermind 911 style attacks, blow up women and kids. These people try and kill my fellow soldiers. I don't know what planet ur on, but on mine we hate the bad guys and don't give a shit about them. There two types of war, total war and peace. If this is true the CIA is trying to win this one. If ur choice was 911 or some douchebag on a CIA owned freighter getting his nuts in a vise, what would u pick.



If that was true we could just nuke em and be done with it.   There are rules to these things, right?      I agree sometimes i wish we could just start nuking and be home for supper.  Its a mixed bag of emotions,this war.

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2008, 09:15:48 AM »
I think ships are the way to go. No BS media trying to take pictures..no pesky Ammnesty International.

I agree.

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: US accused of holding terror suspects on prison ships
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2008, 11:15:06 AM »
Unregulated or unmonitored stuff like this is dangerous, no matter how justified the action.

Only fools would be truly comfortable trusting it with out an independent party with our government watching it.

I doubt this is even true.