Author Topic: Long Term HRT  (Read 2432 times)

busyB

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Long Term HRT
« on: December 04, 2008, 06:10:14 PM »
Want to hear from the vets on this topic. Yes, I did a search here and googled, etc....but want to hear what you pros think about long term HRT?

Seems like most docs want to script some Androgel or weekly shots, then come back in a few months to retest your levels. Well, after being on the gel or shots, levels should be back in normal range, then the doc takes you off. Why?? You will just crash again, right?

I am seriously contemplating not competeting anymore because I really don't want to get into the 2 gram test a week, along with slin, etc...just not worth it to me at this stage of my life to try and make top 10 at a National Show and then work your way up the ladder from there. Just does not appeal to me right now.

My question is, how would you map out a long term HRT?

500 mg a week forever or stop, restart, add hcg every few months, nolva when, Anti E's, Trib, etc??

What about this new pellet stuff?

Would there be downfall of staying on for the rest of my life and how would you go planning this? OF course I would get checked by my doc periodically and advice on how often would be great too. Goal is to stay healthy, still fuck like a champ, and of course look damn good like I do now. No need to be a mass monster, but more appealing to the ladies than the big cartoon character I have been becoming.

My fear is once I stop, I will go back to what happened before I started serious AAS cycles. My test was at 100 when I started the cream at 35, I am almost 38 now. I feel great now and want to keep feeling this way, never to go back to that horrible feeling when I was at 100.

I just got done with a 12 week Test, Deca cycle, along with Hcg 2 x week and about to start the Nolva Monday. I want to start this around mid January when I am done with the nolva, unless you have other thoughts or ideas.

Van, 4th, Rim, AJ, Div, Luv, Vet, Freak, RDW, Trab (sorry, had a flashback)?? Would love to hear from you folk on this. Thanks in advance gang...

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2008, 07:09:04 PM »
Seems like most docs want to script some Androgel or weekly shots, then come back in a few months to retest your levels. Well, after being on the gel or shots, levels should be back in normal range, then the doc takes you off. Why?? You will just crash again, right?

I think I'm missing something here. Why would the doc take you off when your levels look good?


littlechris

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2008, 08:27:36 PM »
good questions.   i have been on hrt for about 3 years now.  the doctors main goal is to keep you at the high end of what ones natural test level should be.  the scale for natural test levels is 200ng -1000.  the doctor will want to keep you at around 900.  now im not talking mgs,lol. i dont recall if it is nanograms, but that is the scale anyway.  and no, the doc wont take you off test,, because like u said, you will crash. hrt is a lifetime commitment brother.  i am currently pescribed 300 mg of cypionate every 7 days, but choose to do only 200 mgs every 7 days.  i am also on 1 mg of anastrozole every other day and 500 iu's of hcg on thursday and on monday. they will also prescribe nandrolone and anavar.  but not in high doses, mybe around 400 mg of nandro, and 25 mg per day of anavar. not crazy doses but you will look good and feel great.

-cj

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2008, 10:27:03 PM »
I think I'm missing something here. Why would the doc take you off when your levels look good?



That makes no sense.  The doctor should evaluate levels every 4-6 months for the first year and then go to every 6 months. HRT is a lifetime commitment (just like thyroid medication or insulin with a diabetic), its not something a doctor prescribes for a few months and stops.   Thats medical malpractice in my mind in the event of someone having actual hypogonadism. 

chixlegs

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2008, 08:06:38 AM »
good questions.   i have been on hrt for about 3 years now.  the doctors main goal is to keep you at the high end of what ones natural test level should be.  the scale for natural test levels is 200ng -1000.  the doctor will want to keep you at around 900.  now im not talking mgs,lol. i dont recall if it is nanograms, but that is the scale anyway.  and no, the doc wont take you off test,, because like u said, you will crash. hrt is a lifetime commitment brother.  i am currently pescribed 300 mg of cypionate every 7 days, but choose to do only 200 mgs every 7 days.  i am also on 1 mg of anastrozole every other day and 500 iu's of hcg on thursday and on monday. they will also prescribe nandrolone and anavar.  but not in high doses, mybe around 400 mg of nandro, and 25 mg per day of anavar. not crazy doses but you will look good and feel great.

-cj


Dude, your doctor prescribed you all that for HRT??  Holy Shit.  Is it through an online anti aging clinic cuz that is a lot man.  My doc gave me androgel, that was it, nothing more.  I asked for shots and he said no.  I asked for Nolva and he said no.  Your guy is loading you up.

busyB

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2008, 09:03:48 AM »
That makes no sense.  The doctor should evaluate levels every 4-6 months for the first year and then go to every 6 months. HRT is a lifetime commitment (just like thyroid medication or insulin with a diabetic), its not something a doctor prescribes for a few months and stops.   Thats medical malpractice in my mind in the event of someone having actual hypogonadism. 

He is a sports doc and yeah, seems that when your in the range he feels that is ok to stop the scripts? He did it with me with the gel, which is when I took matters into my own hands and he has done it to a couple referalls I sent as well.

Shit, I just thought that is how they do it. Last thing I want is to go back to where I was when I was at 100!!

Everything I had read is that I can do this for life like you said but his theroys had me confused?!? Made no sense for me to stop but he made it sound like long term is not the way to go.

Good, you just validated what I wanted to do....

busyB

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2008, 09:06:36 AM »
What would be a good long term HRT plan?

Was thinking of 500 a week, but not sure when to throw in Hcg as I obviously dont want to do that long term, right?

Sounds like I should find a better doc too....

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2008, 09:21:08 AM »
What would be a good long term HRT plan?

Was thinking of 500 a week, but not sure when to throw in Hcg as I obviously dont want to do that long term, right?

Sounds like I should find a better doc too....

500mg a week hardly qualifies as HRT. How about doing 'true HRT' i.e. something like 100-150mg a week most of the time and then cycling in a bit more periodically? According to HRT docs like John Crisler, HCG can be used indefinitely but only in low dosages, like 200iu twice weekly. Also adds in a low dose of DHEA which he feels boosts libido more than test. I think DHEA is lowered when on exo-steroids.

Keeping tabs on BP, cholesterol and HCT is obviously important when on steroids long term, if health is the most important consideration.

The Nebido amps look interesting to me. It's test undecanoate and is supposed to be injected like every 6-8 weeks IIRC. That probably doesn't give the most stable levels but even if shot once a month it would save a lot of hassle with frequent injections.

Vet

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2008, 10:21:11 AM »
500mg a week hardly qualifies as HRT. How about doing 'true HRT' i.e. something like 100-150mg a week most of the time and then cycling in a bit more periodically? According to HRT docs like John Crisler, HCG can be used indefinitely but only in low dosages, like 200iu twice weekly. Also adds in a low dose of DHEA which he feels boosts libido more than test. I think DHEA is lowered when on exo-steroids.

Keeping tabs on BP, cholesterol and HCT is obviously important when on steroids long term, if health is the most important consideration.

The Nebido amps look interesting to me. It's test undecanoate and is supposed to be injected like every 6-8 weeks IIRC. That probably doesn't give the most stable levels but even if shot once a month it would save a lot of hassle with frequent injections.

The maximum I've heard of for true HRT was 400 mg a week.  This individual has other health problems too, which I think contributed to his "high" doses. 

I think doses of 100-300 mg/week are much more typical.


And trust me, as a guy who's had legitimate (non cycle induced) low test, 100 mg a week seems like its nothing on a steroid board, but it'll have a night and day difference in how you feel.  If you feel better, you'll train harder so consider that. 

Arnold jr

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2008, 10:29:31 AM »
First off, why not start now? You're running PCT only to get right back on without any break. IMO, the point of PCT is to ease into an off period altogether. Am I making sense here?

As far as your long term plan, you'd probably be fine at making 250mg/wk your base. You could always bump it up to 500mg/wk for stints to give yourself a boost, but 250mg/wk should keep you working pretty well.


DIVISION

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2008, 01:54:02 PM »
My question is, how would you map out a long term HRT?

500 mg a week forever or stop, restart, add hcg every few months, nolva when, Anti E's, Trib, etc??

Would there be downfall of staying on for the rest of my life and how would you go planning this? OF course I would get checked by my doc periodically and advice on how often would be great too. Goal is to stay healthy, still fuck like a champ, and of course look damn good like I do now. No need to be a mass monster, but more appealing to the ladies than the big cartoon character I have been becoming.

I think you need to figure out at what test level range you feel the best in terms of maintenance and sides and stay at that level permanently for HRT.

If you stop the injections altogether you'll go back to pre-cycle levels which isn't something you wanted to do, right?

So you figure out what feels best at the lowest test range possible and stay there...

If that's 250-500MG ew, so be it but you'll probably want to run HCG permanently at low doses if that's the case.



DIV
I'm a ghost in these killing fields...

busyB

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2008, 09:56:09 AM »
Cool, good stuff guys, thanks!

 ;D  ;D  ;D

4thAD

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2008, 06:48:28 PM »
Yeah bro, 500mg ew is way too much for TRT. 100-200mg ew is more like it.

Alter Idem

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2008, 08:36:40 PM »
Agree with 4th.

I was prescribed 400 ew (Test E) by my family Dr. about 4 - 5 years ago.  He didn't know what to prescribe so I asked for as much as I could.  Only lasted 6 months and he retested my levels.  End of 400.  I think it put me around 1200-1300 ng/dl.


As said before, on forever or drop back to original range.  170 for me.

HCG can't hurt every few weeks.

Never tried gels.  LN


abc123

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2008, 02:41:37 AM »
My HRT doc now precribes 20 week cycles (with HCG during cycle) and then treats me me HCG, Nolva and Clomid for about five-six weeks for PCT.  The only reason he even utilizes PCT is to keep everything working in case I want to have more kids.  Older guys don't cycle off.

littlechris

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2008, 05:31:43 PM »
500 mg  week is way too much!!!! i do 200mgs every 7 days and i feel great and i keep my muscle and strength.  also, yes you have to do hcg 2 times a week tokeep you producing ur normal test.  when hcg is in he mix, u can even use less test per week as you now how have 2 sources of test, endo and exo.  at 200 mgs a week of test, my test level was 1100.  oh and the androgels are a pain in the ass and u dont get even steady levels.

A2daMIR

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2008, 09:23:50 AM »
good questions.   i have been on hrt for about 3 years now.  the doctors main goal is to keep you at the high end of what ones natural test level should be.  the scale for natural test levels is 200ng -1000.  the doctor will want to keep you at around 900.  now im not talking mgs,lol. i dont recall if it is nanograms, but that is the scale anyway.  and no, the doc wont take you off test,, because like u said, you will crash. hrt is a lifetime commitment brother.  i am currently pescribed 300 mg of cypionate every 7 days, but choose to do only 200 mgs every 7 days.  i am also on 1 mg of anastrozole every other day and 500 iu's of hcg on thursday and on monday. they will also prescribe nandrolone and anavar.  but not in high doses, mybe around 400 mg of nandro, and 25 mg per day of anavar. not crazy doses but you will look good and feel great.

-cj

how much do you pay for those a month if you dont mind sharing. does insurance cover HRT?

busyB

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2008, 10:57:32 AM »
Had a long talk with a friend of mine over the weekend who is a similar situation as I. We are close to the same age and he is done competiting as well. SO, he and I discussed his HRT.

You guys are right (not sure what the hell I was thinking) but 500 is too much. He gets blood done every 3 months and off 200 a week his levels are over 1,000.

He is now working with Emeric Delczig (an older pro who does know his shit but kinda weird). Emeric has him shooting 50mg eod instead of one shot a week at 200. Yes, some weeks are a bit more or less than 200 but feels it keeps level more stable with smaller frequent injections.

He is also taking Humanafort (otc supplement) and DHEA. He had to back the DHEA down to 100mg a day as his levels were getting too high. Also throws in Nolva every few months and thinking of adding HCG now after our discussion.

Just thought I would throw this on the board in case anyone cared  :-\ so here is what I am planning on doing

50 mg Test EOD
100 mg DHEA ED
Hcg 200 2 x week
Nolva as needed
MAYBE Humanafort after I read more about it.

PinkPanthar

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Re: Long Term HRT
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2008, 04:23:48 PM »
Had a long talk with a friend of mine over the weekend who is a similar situation as I. We are close to the same age and he is done competiting as well. SO, he and I discussed his HRT.

You guys are right (not sure what the hell I was thinking) but 500 is too much. He gets blood done every 3 months and off 200 a week his levels are over 1,000.

He is now working with Emeric Delczig (an older pro who does know his shit but kinda weird). Emeric has him shooting 50mg eod instead of one shot a week at 200. Yes, some weeks are a bit more or less than 200 but feels it keeps level more stable with smaller frequent injections.

He is also taking Humanafort (otc supplement) and DHEA. He had to back the DHEA down to 100mg a day as his levels were getting too high. Also throws in Nolva every few months and thinking of adding HCG now after our discussion.

Just thought I would throw this on the board in case anyone cared  :-\ so here is what I am planning on doing

50 mg Test EOD
100 mg DHEA ED
Hcg 200 2 x week
Nolva as needed
MAYBE Humanafort after I read more about it.

Keep us informed bro.  I am currently working with Crisler and about to go on TRT/HRT... Never heard of that Humanofort, sound interesting.  Hit back.

Also is NO ONE on GELS?  I heard GELS or CREAM can be great for LIBIDO?....