stripping...and not the good kind

[heretostay13]

Ok, so decided this upcoming cycle is going to be a fat loss/muscle preservation-increase cycle. I've been tinkering around some ideas to see how it would work and I'm nowhere near being content with anything and unsure as to how to mix and match what I want to do. Never worked with Clen or T3 so this will be my first cycle working them in. Love Test Prop and the solid gains I've gotten off of it. Currently here are my stats.
Age: 24
Weight: Hovering around 300
Bodyfat: Just above 20% via hydrostatic weighing (not going to drop the cash for bod pod and I know the guys who work in the Ex. Phys lab on campus so I get this done for free)
Where I want to be: Whatever bodyweight I can at between 12%-15%....good range and if I shot for 12% and don't get it I won't be completely let down.
Why: Always been the massive/strong guy in the gym and want something different. Done 3 very mild cycles before and deciding to step it up a notch.

These are what I was planning on running:

Test Prop
Tren A
Win
Clen
T3

As far as weeks and dosages go I'm only sure about the Test Prop at running it around 700mg a week. So here's what I was thinking...

Test Prop: 700mg per week weeks 1-20 (alternating 175mg EOD on Weeks 1,3,5,7, etc. and 250/200 EOD on weeks 2,4,6,8,10, etc.)
Win: 50mg day weeks 1-8
Tren Acetate: 100mg EOD Weeks 9-16
Clen: 40,60,80,100 pyramid up and down over 3 weeks (Weeks 1-3, 7-9, 13-15, 19-20)
T3: 25, 50, 75, 100 pyramid up and down over 3 weeks (Weeks 4-6, 10-12, 16-18)

Should I rotate Clen and T3 in a pyramid fashion over the whole cycle period? Or am I looking at some serious liver issues on those first 8 weeks or so combining the clen with the Winstrol? Again, new to some things in terms of the Clen and T3 and am nowhere near making a solid decision on this, so please...opinions.

[Arnold jr]

wk 1-6 winny 50mg/ed
wk 1-20 prop 200mg/eod
wk 13-20 winny 50mg/ed
wk 13-20 tren-a 100mg/eod

wk 5-20 clen start at 40mcg/ed bump it up 20mcg every 2-3wks as needed.
wk 5-20 t-3 start at 25mcg/ed bump it up 12.5mcg every 2-3wks as needed

[abc123]

I would diet off as much fat naturally as possible before using gear.  You should be able to drop a lot without gear since your bf is so high.

[Arnold jr]

I would diet off as much fat naturally as possible before using gear.  You should be able to drop a lot without gear since your bf is so high.

There is nothing wrong with what you're saying...I used to say it too. But if this guy has a large base of muscle under his fat, dieting with AAS will preserve his muscle mass. So I say go for it.

[heretostay13]

Right now I feel like I do in fact have a lot of muscle mass under all of this. Been lifting for almost 8 years now and did the natural diet/cardio thing this summer (carbohydrate rotation and carefully placed cardio) and lost strength and a little muscle along the way. Just wanting to be able to put muscle on/keep muscle while doing this. I think with what I want (12%-15%) I'll be around 250-260 to do so eventually, and was thinking this is the best route to do it.

[heretostay13]

And thanks AJr. Honestly was thinking about holding off on the clen and t3 like you had listed, and also thought my use of Win was probably done at the wrong time. Thanks for straightening me up.

[WillGrant]

And thanks AJr. Honestly was thinking about holding off on the clen and t3 like you had listed, and also thought my use of Win was probably done at the wrong time. Thanks for straightening me up.

Anavar is a better fat reducer than Stan.

[Arnold jr]

Anavar is a better fat reducer than Stan.

Neither one of them are "fat reducers."

[WillGrant]

Neither one of them are "fat reducers."

Var has fat burning properties,would you like studies?
By reducing I mean burning.

[Arnold jr]

Var has fat burning properties,would you like studies?
By reducing I mean burning.

Anavar's gains, i.e. muscle tissue, although they are small, they seem to have a more permanent effect then muscle tissue gained by other AAS. Basically the muscle tissue gained with anavar solidifies more rapidly and permanently then compared with other AAS.

......and yes, I have read the types of studies you're talking about.

Point being, yes anavar will help you lose weight, but it DOES NOT attack the fat in your body. It's the added lean muscle tissue that causes you to burn fat more rapidly, Rapidly being a relative term.

Next point, all AAS, anything for that matter that helps increase lean muscle tissue will help you burn fat...anything that helps you increase lean muscle tissue more permanently will help you burn fat because you have more lean muscle tissue and that increases your metabolic rate. It's not the AAS itself that's burning the fat tissue.

[Luv2Hurt]

Anavar's gains, i.e. muscle tissue, although they are small, they seem to have a more permanent effect then muscle tissue gained by other AAS. Basically the muscle tissue gained with anavar solidifies more rapidly and permanently then compared with other AAS.

......and yes, I have read the types of studies you're talking about.

Point being, yes anavar will help you lose weight, but it DOES NOT attack the fat in your body. It's the added lean muscle tissue that causes you to burn fat more rapidly, Rapidly being a relative term.

Next point, all AAS, anything for that matter that helps increase lean muscle tissue will help you burn fat...anything that helps you increase lean muscle tissue more permanently will help you burn fat because you have more lean muscle tissue and that increases your metabolic rate. It's not the AAS itself that's burning the fat tissue.

Agree with AJ here.  There is a common misconception that AAS are fat burners.  Probally one of the reasons some people think you can get away with eating anything and everything in sight on cycle.  Then 2 months later these same people start a thread about clen and loosing some fat.

Man I can blow up to 235lbs at my height of 5'7" eating lots and being strong and in many people's mind they think thats big cause of the lbs but its really just a bunch of extra fat and water and I feel and look like shit IMO.  At 210-215lbs I look much better, feel better and am just about as strong.

[iron_dawg]

There is nothing wrong with what you're saying...I used to say it too. But if this guy has a large base of muscle under his fat, dieting with AAS will preserve his muscle mass. So I say go for it.

diet hard and perserve as much muscle as possible

[Emmortal]

Anavar's gains, i.e. muscle tissue, although they are small, they seem to have a more permanent effect then muscle tissue gained by other AAS. Basically the muscle tissue gained with anavar solidifies more rapidly and permanently then compared with other AAS.

......and yes, I have read the types of studies you're talking about.

Point being, yes anavar will help you lose weight, but it DOES NOT attack the fat in your body. It's the added lean muscle tissue that causes you to burn fat more rapidly, Rapidly being a relative term.

Next point, all AAS, anything for that matter that helps increase lean muscle tissue will help you burn fat...anything that helps you increase lean muscle tissue more permanently will help you burn fat because you have more lean muscle tissue and that increases your metabolic rate. It's not the AAS itself that's burning the fat tissue.

Tren is the only AAS that I would venture to say actually has some fat reducing properties that are not associated with the added lean mass you're talking about.

[WillGrant]

Anavar's gains, i.e. muscle tissue, although they are small, they seem to have a more permanent effect then muscle tissue gained by other AAS. Basically the muscle tissue gained with anavar solidifies more rapidly and permanently then compared with other AAS.

......and yes, I have read the types of studies you're talking about.

Point being, yes anavar will help you lose weight, but it DOES NOT attack the fat in your body. It's the added lean muscle tissue that causes you to burn fat more rapidly, Rapidly being a relative term.

Next point, all AAS, anything for that matter that helps increase lean muscle tissue will help you burn fat...anything that helps you increase lean muscle tissue more permanently will help you burn fat because you have more lean muscle tissue and that increases your metabolic rate. It's not the AAS itself that's burning the fat tissue.

Yes that is a no brainer , the more lean tissue you have the more efficiently your body will burn fat...AAS Increase lean tissue eg muscle.

But  Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than Test E or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat..
So oxy does target bf along with other things 

[local hero]

tren, prop, anvar, stan,,,,,,,,,, all just give u lean gains, even actual fat burners dont exactly rip the fat off u

u can diet on sus and deca if your diet and training is upto scratch, and thats a fact!

[littlechris]

what about using an anti-estrogen during the cycle? people dont realize how beneficial anti-estrogens are for losing bodyfat.  if the average male just used an anti-estrogen and nothing else, he would lose fat.  and as far as lean gains, you can get lean gains from any anabolic if u add an anti-estrogen.

-lc