Lab Analysis Validity.

[DIVISION]

When big brand UG's like Axio and Syntrop publicize their lab analyses, are you skeptical of the validity or do you buy-in wholly to the approach that they are being honest and forthright?

I understand the level of skepticism from some of you who were fucked over in the past by this company, but what is your opinion of their new approach to doing business?

I don't see how any lab analysis can be questioned unless you're going to simply accuse the lab of doctoring the results.

If you pick out batch and check the label claims, wouldn't you have to pretty much assume that they're valid?

Remember, this is coming from someone who uses HG for all cycles so I'm not a person who lives and dies with UG's and whether they end up prospering or going belly-up.

I hear random critiques of Axio, Syntrop, Geneza and I take them with a grain of salt, quite frankly unless I know the actual people personally who are commenting.

The idea behind my sampling of Axio's Sustaplex 325 was simply to give newbies and skeptical UG veterans a chance to hear what someone with no stake in the label has to say about it.

Honestly, I'm skeptical from the outset because of my prior experiences with UG quality, but if Sustaplex can come close to matching what Organon Sustanon (Karachi) does, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

For those of you who are skeptical of lab analysis, I'm curious as to why and how you would go about holding a UG accountable for quality assurance?

From a business perspective, they're doing what they can to instill customer confidence, now it's just a matter of consistency and making up for the past.

I never bought any of these brands, so I don't feel the anger and betrayal some of you do from Axio's not so distant past.

I'd like to hear some of these horror stories from some of you, esp those who bought bulk purchase of Axio after they went bad and were left with a shitload of useless oil.

Those are interesting stories.



DIV

[rawdawg]

heres the thing I can post a lab results for any company and any result its simple.I can even make the lab result come from whatever lab you want.

then you erase my comment on how your sust may be fake.

See DIV these company's are like you they can make up batch numbers and have it say the perfect thing cause its there website.NOW like you your a mod and you controll what can and should not be said on this board.I could or anyone could know you personally on the outside and come in here and spill the truth about you,BUT you having controll in the forum lets you keep what is positive and not what may be the truth.

[Alter Idem]

Many truthful comments never see the light of day.  Mine were seized in the middle of the night.  I WANT MY LETTER!

[DIVISION]

heres the thing I can post a lab results for any company and any result its simple.I can even make the lab result come from whatever lab you want.

then you erase my comment on how your sust may be fake.

See DIV these company's are like you they can make up batch numbers and have it say the perfect thing cause its there website.NOW like you your a mod and you controll what can and should not be said on this board.I could or anyone could know you personally on the outside and come in here and spill the truth about you,BUT you having controll in the forum lets you keep what is positive and not what may be the truth.

I erase comments that are stupid in nature and have no validity, esp by gimmick accounts.

If the lab is a legit lab that we know to be real, why would think the results would be false?

I suppose it depends on whether you believe my opinion or not, that's what it comes down to.

There are only two people who know me personally outside the forum, so I'm not too concerned with what others say......it's irrelevant.

Unless you've met someone personally in the flesh, you don't know them.......

Isn't that common sense?


DIV

[Alter Idem]

At least you erased your own comments that sparked the replies, I'll give you that.  Some things are best left alone so I will. 

I am curious why you are being a lab rat after all the bashing of UG labs.  You  always preach HG and tongue lashed people for using anything other than HG. I can't see you doing this for the vets and newbs.

On a lighter note..  I don't really care, just seems wishy-washy. 

LN

[DIVISION]

At least you erased your own comments that sparked the replies, I'll give you that.  Some things are best left alone so I will. 

I am curious why you are being a lab rat after all the bashing of UG labs.  You  always preach HG and tongue lashed people for using anything other than HG. I can't see you doing this for the vets and newbs.

On a lighter note..  I don't really care, just seems wishy-washy. 

LN

I'm doing it for the members of GetBig........so they get an honest appraisal of Axio's Sustanon product.

I'm not willing to test all of their products, but something that is the equivalent of what I use anyway (Organon Sustanon).

I look down on UG's in general because of the concerns William Llewellyn has raised many times over, but I doubt a cycle of Sustaplex is going to kill me.

I always preach about using HG, because I do use HG.........but I realize that alot of newbies and people who don't have the access nor financial means have to resort to using the Axios, Syntrops and Genezas of the world, so I'm trying to help those people.

Not everyone can afford to pay HG prices and I realize that.

They are going to use UG whether I preach to them or not, so the least I can do is let them know what they're getting for their money.

I'm not sure why you'd be skeptical of my motives, after all, I'm certainly not being paid by any of these companies nor do I plan to buy any of their products, so what else is there?   

It's really about the newbies and UG enthusiasts.




DIV

[Alter Idem]

I'm not skeptical of your motives.  I was just trying to understand the 180 degree turn towards using UG. I have no problem with it. 

When someone has preached the evils of UG for the past couple of years on the forum and switches up, people want to know why.  Opinions change over time but it seems that if they don't match yours then they are not valid. 

I think it has to do with your delivery.  From talking down to people who use UG to using it on yourself was a pretty big change.  Hence the wishy-washy statement.  As far as you switching to UG, I know better.  Karachi till the end.

Aside from all this, I am interested in the outcome of your trial run.
 

[Captain Equipoise]

Lab results are useless and easily faked, consider this... a company like axio can make a short run batch of really overdosed oil (let's say 320mg/cc instead of 250mg/cc) take a bottle of said overdosed stuff and send it to the lab to get tested at an astonishing 320mg/cc!!! WOW... now does that mean every single other bottle coming from said lab will be 320mg/cc HELL NO.

[jtsunami]

Lab results are useless and easily faked, consider this... a company like axio can make a short run batch of really overdosed oil (let's say 320mg/cc instead of 250mg/cc) take a bottle of said overdosed stuff and send it to the lab to get tested at an astonishing 320mg/cc!!! WOW... now does that mean every single other bottle coming from said lab will be 320mg/cc HELL NO.

overdosed is not a good thing either.  If the label says it should be 250mg/ml it should be as close to that as possible.

jt

[rawdawg]

Lab results are useless and easily faked, consider this... a company like axio can make a short run batch of really overdosed oil (let's say 320mg/cc instead of 250mg/cc) take a bottle of said overdosed stuff and send it to the lab to get tested at an astonishing 320mg/cc!!! WOW... now does that mean every single other bottle coming from said lab will be 320mg/cc HELL NO.

THANK YOU

[tbombz]

Lab results are useless and easily faked, consider this... a company like axio can make a short run batch of really overdosed oil (let's say 320mg/cc instead of 250mg/cc) take a bottle of said overdosed stuff and send it to the lab to get tested at an astonishing 320mg/cc!!! WOW... now does that mean every single other bottle coming from said lab will be 320mg/cc HELL NO.

or better yet they could sell cottonseed oil and put up a lab test from a amp of tostovix.  or just fake their own 'lab analysis'

[rawdawg]

I erase comments that are stupid in nature and have no validity, esp by gimmick accounts.

If the lab is a legit lab that we know to be real, why would think the results would be false?

I suppose it depends on whether you believe my opinion or not, that's what it comes down to.

There are only two people who know me personally outside the forum, so I'm not too concerned with what others say......it's irrelevant.

Unless you've met someone personally in the flesh, you don't know them.......

Isn't that common sense?


DIV

I guess it just flew right over your head its the point I dont care to know you or care who knows you its just the point in the whole thing.

Just forget it common sense would be you understanding what i was tring to say

tell me what you want tested and I can test it right here and give you the lab results from what ever lab you choose does that help you understand a little better

[tolliscd]

I think when a lab posts results they are doing everything they can to ensure quality assurance. If you choose not to believe them fine which is why we all prefer HG. However, if a UG does post there results then they are making a effort to ensure trust in there products. I think the Mods here and some of the members will always give you there honest opinions of a lab if you were to ask. So with the lab results posted and a simple pm to a mod then i dont see why you should question the product. Most reputable UGs are consistent in the product they put out with few exceptions (AXIO) which seems to have corrected there issues.

[DIVISION]

I'm not skeptical of your motives.  I was just trying to understand the 180 degree turn towards using UG. I have no problem with it. 

When someone has preached the evils of UG for the past couple of years on the forum and switches up, people want to know why.  Opinions change over time but it seems that if they don't match yours then they are not valid. 

I think it has to do with your delivery.  From talking down to people who use UG to using it on yourself was a pretty big change.  Hence the wishy-washy statement.  As far as you switching to UG, I know better.  Karachi till the end.

Aside from all this, I am interested in the outcome of your trial run.
 

I'm not for UG's at all and I never was.....

The problem is that alot of people just getting in to the game don't have the access to HG or can't afford it.

It's very common place and I was in that same position years ago.

There are some decent UG's, but I'm the type of person who likes to know that what I'm using is 100% guaranteed.

This trial run is simply for informational purposes, whether it turns out good or bad is beyond me.

I gave Syntrop the same offer, but they didn't want to participate.


DIV

[Emmortal]

I gave Syntrop the same offer, but they didn't want to participate.

Maybe it's because Syntrop was stolen out from underneath the guy who created the line and is now being sold off underdosed and with the same issues that the old Axio line suffered from.  I wouldn't take that or Axio if someone gave me a truck load of it.

[DIVISION]

Maybe it's because Syntrop was stolen out from underneath the guy who created the line and is now being sold off underdosed and with the same issues that the old Axio line suffered from.  I wouldn't take that or Axio if someone gave me a truck load of it.

Actually, Geneza is the brand run by Naps who was selling the bad Axio product.

Syntrop was created by the one of the doctors who was responsible for Axio, competely different person.

I haven't heard anything bad about the Syntrop brand yet.

There have been some lab analysis of the Geneza that have come back underdosed........



DIV

[Emmortal]

Actually, Geneza is the brand run by Naps who was selling the bad Axio product.

Syntrop was created by the one of the doctors who was responsible for Axio, competely different person.

I haven't heard anything bad about the Syntrop brand yet.

There have been some lab analysis of the Geneza that have come back underdosed........
DIV

I'm not referring to Naps or Geneza at all.  There's some recent information coming out how the guy you're referring to was basically undercut out from the Syntrop name by a certain supplier who took over the domain registration and was putting out underdosed crap under the name.  From what I know he's no longer associated with Syntrop and will be coming out with a new line soon.

[DIVISION]

I'm not referring to Naps or Geneza at all.  There's some recent information coming out how the guy you're referring to was basically undercut out from the Syntrop name by a certain supplier who took over the domain registration and was putting out underdosed crap under the name.  From what I know he's no longer associated with Syntrop and will be coming out with a new line soon.

No idea on that, remember, I don't keep up on the details of these UG's.

That's why I'm only testing this Axio product, it's coming directly from the owner.

I'm not sure anyone really knows what happened in the past, too many stories out there.

I do know that Naps (Geneza) is responsible for the bad Axio product that was sold toward the end, but that's it.


DIV

[DIVISION]

Division... how is your trial run of ug gear going?

I'll post a critique when the cycle is over, until then there's really nothing I can report.


DIV

[stevekg]

first they need to do lab test of powders they use..then make as lab test..but they dont do anything! they dont care for lab test and purety stuff..they care only for good profit! + they bake gear in kitchens and gear is full of metals

[RonnyT]

William Llewellyn is busy writing a new book about this same topic.

The new Underground book.

We thought about it after we read this article in the Hertford Courant
http://www.bodyofscience.com/labreports/images/lj_cuta7owpyspzq.doc

It tempted us to do the same with some Scandinavian UG labs
http://www.bodyofscience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4478

After that William said we should cover the whole scene, since we are already knowing most of the guys.
If we buy samples on the black market and allow members to sent in samples from welknown UGLabs but also from counterfeited HG (we buy from known scammers - the Bulgarian scene -China  etc) and "bought" brands like Denkall - QV - Karachi etc etc (Hussain [IP China) and analyse these. You'll get a picture of the scene.

We also buy API (raws) and analyse the heavy metal contact the pollutions etc.  Further we cover the present peptides. We already analysed many brands for content - purity etc (free downloadable on the magazines section). But we plan to cover other issues like dimers - oxidation -strength actually measurable by reversed phase HPLC and accepted by E pharmacopoeia

New means like pegylatedMGF and the new stabilised pegylatedMGF and PT141 etc etc.

I.m.h.o. some of these UG's come close to the real thing (logical when you imagine the enormous amount of money involved).

If you find a labtest in this book, it is bought on the black market and sent in by BoS for analysis. We make sure that it is not doctored (often impossible because, when possible, we sent in an item that has no HG equilavent)

If you like to feed us with ideas - samples - information etc don't hesitate to do so..

[4thAD]

William Llewellyn is busy writing a new book about this same topic.

The new Underground book.

We thought about it after we read this article in the Hertford Courant
http://www.bodyofscience.com/labreports/images/lj_cuta7owpyspzq.doc

It tempted us to do the same with some Scandinavian UG labs
http://www.bodyofscience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4478

After that William said we should cover the whole scene, since we are already knowing most of the guys.
If we buy samples on the black market and allow members to sent in samples from welknown UGLabs but also from counterfeited HG (we buy from known scammers - the Bulgarian scene -China  etc) and "bought" brands like Denkall - QV - Karachi etc etc (Hussain [IP China) and analyse these. You'll get a picture of the scene.

We also buy API (raws) and analyse the heavy metal contact the pollutions etc.  Further we cover the present peptides. We already analysed many brands for content - purity etc (free downloadable on the magazines section). But we plan to cover other issues like dimers - oxidation -strength actually measurable by reversed phase HPLC and accepted by E pharmacopoeia

New means like pegylatedMGF and the new stabilised pegylatedMGF and PT141 etc etc.

I.m.h.o. some of these UG's come close to the real thing (logical when you imagine the enormous amount of money involved).

If you find a labtest in this book, it is bought on the black market and sent in by BoS for analysis. We make sure that it is not doctored (often impossible because, when possible, we sent in an item that has no HG equilavent)

If you like to feed us with ideas - samples - information etc don't hesitate to do so..

Hey Welcome to the board Ronny!

[DIVISION]

William Llewellyn is busy writing a new book about this same topic.

The new Underground book.

We thought about it after we read this article in the Hertford Courant
http://www.bodyofscience.com/labreports/images/lj_cuta7owpyspzq.doc

It tempted us to do the same with some Scandinavian UG labs
http://www.bodyofscience.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4478

After that William said we should cover the whole scene, since we are already knowing most of the guys.
If we buy samples on the black market and allow members to sent in samples from welknown UGLabs but also from counterfeited HG (we buy from known scammers - the Bulgarian scene -China  etc) and "bought" brands like Denkall - QV - Karachi etc etc (Hussain [IP China) and analyse these. You'll get a picture of the scene.

We also buy API (raws) and analyse the heavy metal contact the pollutions etc.  Further we cover the present peptides. We already analysed many brands for content - purity etc (free downloadable on the magazines section). But we plan to cover other issues like dimers - oxidation -strength actually measurable by reversed phase HPLC and accepted by E pharmacopoeia

New means like pegylatedMGF and the new stabilised pegylatedMGF and PT141 etc etc.

I.m.h.o. some of these UG's come close to the real thing (logical when you imagine the enormous amount of money involved).

If you find a labtest in this book, it is bought on the black market and sent in by BoS for analysis. We make sure that it is not doctored (often impossible because, when possible, we sent in an item that has no HG equilavent)

If you like to feed us with ideas - samples - information etc don't hesitate to do so..

Welcome to the board, Ron.   



DIV

[RonnyT]

Thanks guys