Why not UPS?

[pellius]

Not sure they want their business to be known as the criminal undergrounds carrier, like WU and Moneygram are used for illegal activities.

jt

Still, I can't help but think about the laws of incentives and restraints. Of course, no company wants to be known to promote criminal activities. But they are in the business to make a profit and in UPS' case this means delivering packages. What those packages contain would seem to be of less concern and if anything they would want to go out of their way NOT to know what's in them. Knowing what's being delivered is a matter for LE and why would a private company invest in inspectors that would hurt their business?

WU and MG is a good example. Of course everybody knows that these money transfers are often use for illegal purposes but all WU/MG cares about is that there is no fraud. That whoever is sending funds is actually that person and that the funds are available. They do that not because they're good citizens but simply because it's good business. Whether the parties involved are using those funds for helping their son make this month's rent or that it is used to buy viagra or anabolics would be of far less, if any, concern. In fact, it is in their interest to turn a blind eye. It's not their responsibility to enforce drug or racketeering laws.

But I know I'm missing something because USPS seems to overwhelmingly be the carrier of choice.

[jtsunami]

Good post pellius I agree with most if not all of what you said.

jt

[WannaBHuge]

I normally do not post on this board for a number of reasons, but came across this thread and thought I should reply so some of you guys don't fuck yourselves up.

You don't use private carriers (UPS, Fed-Ex, etc) because they are private actors and are NOT subject to the 4th Amendment as is the government.  What this means for you is that tese private carriers need NO probable cause to open any package you send/receive.  If they open the package and find contraband, they can turn it over to the government and even though it was found in a search with no probable cause, the government can use the contraband against you. 

When you ship with 1st class mail or priority mail, a warrant, supported by probable cause must exist before the govt. can open the package.  If they open without one, the exclusionary rule bars the use of any evidence they find in the pack from later being used against you. 

The moral of this story is always use USPS first class/priority.  You use private carriers at your own peril.  Good luck and stay safe

[pellius]

I normally do not post on this board for a number of reasons, but came across this thread and thought I should reply so some of you guys don't fuck yourselves up.

You don't use private carriers (UPS, Fed-Ex, etc) because they are private actors and are NOT subject to the 4th Amendment as is the government.  What this means for you is that tese private carriers need NO probable cause to open any package you send/receive.  If they open the package and find contraband, they can turn it over to the government and even though it was found in a search with no probable cause, the government can use the contraband against you. 

When you ship with 1st class mail or priority mail, a warrant, supported by probable cause must exist before the govt. can open the package.  If they open without one, the exclusionary rule bars the use of any evidence they find in the pack from later being used against you. 

The moral of this story is always use USPS first class/priority.  You use private carriers at your own peril.  Good luck and stay safe

Makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. With that being the case if one is to get box should it be a PO box or a box from a private firm such as Mail Box etc., UPS...? I've always read to avoid U.S. Post Office boxes.

One other question: if you get a package via USPS and it is delivered to a UPS box can the UPS personnel open if they want?

[jtsunami]

I normally do not post on this board for a number of reasons, but came across this thread and thought I should reply so some of you guys don't fuck yourselves up.

You don't use private carriers (UPS, Fed-Ex, etc) because they are private actors and are NOT subject to the 4th Amendment as is the government.  What this means for you is that tese private carriers need NO probable cause to open any package you send/receive.  If they open the package and find contraband, they can turn it over to the government and even though it was found in a search with no probable cause, the government can use the contraband against you. 

When you ship with 1st class mail or priority mail, a warrant, supported by probable cause must exist before the govt. can open the package.  If they open without one, the exclusionary rule bars the use of any evidence they find in the pack from later being used against you. 

The moral of this story is always use USPS first class/priority.  You use private carriers at your own peril.  Good luck and stay safe

WannaBHuge thanks for posting that.  Benz, I was right, even though I had second hand info, it was credible and good. 

Pellius I would get a PO Box at a local store that has them, I am sure you can find someplace around their that has PO Boxes besides USPS and doesn't require ID.

jt

[benz]

WannaBHuge thanks for posting that.  Benz, I was right, even though I had second hand info, it was credible and good. 

Pellius I would get a PO Box at a local store that has them, I am sure you can find someplace around their that has PO Boxes besides USPS and doesn't require ID.

jt

My sources for such info are: 1) ups = i use the service for my business, contracts are here, they wont open anything. Different contracts with people? I doubt it. 2) Fedex = same as ups, even though i dont have any business relationship with them, the man that brought fedex to many latinamerican countries is the father of a friend of mine = source.

As for dhl excel/danzas, i dont know anything.

As you can see my info does not come from some forum with wannabe's talking about conspiracy all day.

[WannaBHuge]

Makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. With that being the case if one is to get box should it be a PO box or a box from a private firm such as Mail Box etc., UPS...? I've always read to avoid U.S. Post Office boxes.

One other question: if you get a package via USPS and it is delivered to a UPS box can the UPS personnel open if they want?

I'm not sure who Benz was referring to, but his post is purely anecdotal and shouldn't be used as advice.  The point is that private carriers are not contrained by any regulations that prevent them from opening your package if they want.  Sure they might not choose to, but the point is they can.  If they do, the evidence can later be used against you. 

To answer your question pellius, if it were me, and I was determined to have things delivered somewhere other than my residence, I would probably choose the PO box.  If a pack is delievered to a UPS box, then the personel working there CAN open it.  Sure they probably wouldnt, and maybe they would get fired for opening, but that isnt the point.  Remember, the 4th Amendment DOES NOT regulate the conduct of private actors/persons.  Thus, if an employee opening it when it was sitting in your box, the evidence could be turned over to the police and be used against you.  However, if a postal employee opened your pack while it was sitting in your PO box, any evidence contained therein would be excluded in any subsequent criminal trial (unless of course they obtained a warrant beforehand). 

I think the options here speak for themselves.  But make your own decision

[benz]

something else to add, ups, just like any order mail company, CAN require to inspect a package BEFORE accepting it, and then decide if it can be shipped or not, but its not like they accept it and later at destiny they will open it.

[benz]

I'm not sure who Benz was referring to, but his post is purely anecdotal and shouldn't be used as advice.  The point is that private carriers are not contrained by any regulations that prevent them from opening your package if they want.  Sure they might not choose to, but the point is they can.  If they do, the evidence can later be used against you. 

To answer your question pellius, if it were me, and I was determined to have things delivered somewhere other than my residence, I would probably choose the PO box.  If a pack is delievered to a UPS box, then the personel working there CAN open it.  Sure they probably wouldnt, and maybe they would get fired for opening, but that isnt the point.  Remember, the 4th Amendment DOES NOT regulate the conduct of private actors/persons.  Thus, if an employee opening it when it was sitting in your box, the evidence could be turned over to the police and be used against you.  However, if a postal employee opened your pack while it was sitting in your PO box, any evidence contained therein would be excluded in any subsequent criminal trial (unless of course they obtained a warrant beforehand). 

I think the options here speak for themselves.  But make your own decision

reffer to 1991 case of cocaine, they did that and it was rejected

[pellius]

WannaBHuge thanks for posting that.  Benz, I was right, even though I had second hand info, it was credible and good. 

Pellius I would get a PO Box at a local store that has them, I am sure you can find someplace around their that has PO Boxes besides USPS and doesn't require ID.

jt

Actually, by PO box I meant Post Office box as in USPS box. So getting a box at the actual Post office is safer? In my area (boonies) we don't have Mail Box etc, or stores that have them. Heck I have to drive 24  miles round trip to access my UPS box. I have a USPS station about 5 miles away and can get a box there.

[jtsunami]

Well it would probably be just about as safe getting it shipped straight to your house.  Unless you have a fake ID to register your PO box under, you will have to end up using your real ID with your real name and address on it. 

jt