Cap & Trade = "Man Made Disaster for Energy Prices"

[Butterbean]

Because of the passing of this bill, I can now say we are living in extraordinary times. Or a better description would be an age of extraordinary stupidity reminiscent of the middle ages. I dont want to live in extraordinary times. I want to live in boring times. I want to live in an era in which politics is boring because the politicians are sane people. Im close to 30 years old and I have come to a point in which I need to find the purpose of my life. I cant afford to be living in extraordinary times right now. If this doesnt result in the final nail in the coffin for Democrats's chances of keeping the House in 2010, or for Barack Obama's reelection chances, then we deserve everything we get. Hey, dont blame me. Despite the Republicans screwing up, I voted straight Republican ticket in 2004, 2006, and 2008.

By the way, I didnt know you were allowed to call offices of other Congressmen that arent representing you. I know most of them dont accept emails from out of thier states or districts. The politicians who represent me are actually sane people and they are not a part of the problem. So I feel like I am helpless in doing anything.

I am marking this day in history. I have now decided that there will be no more holds barred. I am going to be profoundly political from now on. I dont like to be because it is a sensitive subject, but this stuff is too important.

By the way, I cant wait to see what the market does on Monday.

The last year or so is the first time I've ever had a more than passing interest in things Political.  I normally vote Republican but really didn't think much about the Clinton administration.   I wasn't worried.  I still felt like our country was strong and safe.   I agree we are living in extraordinary times.  Many assume our lives will continue on in relative peace and safety and freedom and a decent standard of living.  I hope it's true....

[astro]

cnn says it passed

[Kazan]

This whole thing astounds me, the very people that that are supposed to represent us, are doing everything they can to destroy this America.

[Kazan]

hahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I'm sure you're correct - I haven't watched the news much at all lately, working to regain some mental health that politics seems to sap away. 

I know people were mad Clinton didn't allow drilling in 1992, which would have made us almost energy independent in ten years, due to the massive cost and impact. 

Is this obama's argument here?  That he's taking the hit that clinton wouldn't, so in 10 years we're not still kissing saudis in a world where the dollar = Charmin?

You see I have no problem with alternative fuel's, provided they can take over the roll of oil in our system. The fact that we have no alternative at this time that can replace oil, means this whole thing is no more than Don Quixote tiltinh at windmills ( pun intended)

[IFBBwannaB]

Its centerpiece is a "cap and trade" provision that has been rightfully derided as "cap and tax." It is in fact a tax on energy everywhere it is consumed on everything it is used to make or provide.

It is the largest tax increase in American history — a tax on all Americans — even the 95% that President Obama pledged would never see a tax increase.

What a surprise , someone who almost went into jail for his shady dealings lied about every subject in the world 

I hate Obama, now say it with me! CHANGE, YES WE CAN (get this fucker out of the White House).

[240 is Back]

LOL hahahah  thanks 2nd in all honesty i think this was an honest mistake 240 is a retard and the official obama butt plug but ill give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

we watched the story all day.  pelosi pulled off the miracle in the house.  Obviously it's not going to the senate yet, but when it does it'll prob pass

[2ND COMING]

, but when it does it'll prob pass

thats highly unlikely

(IMO) of course

[headhuntersix]

They're saying it won't pass the senate, we can only hope. Europe is going the other way on this bullshit and we're just screwing ourselves.

[Soul Crusher]

They're saying it won't pass the senate, we can only hope. Europe is going the other way on this bullshit and we're just screwing ourselves.

Amazing isnt it?  Cap & Trade is a failure everywhere it has been tried yet ZERO and the Rats think this is going to end up different???

They really suck and hate America.

[sync pulse]

the bill passed.



sounds like shit, but i'm curious...

in ten years, will our energy costs be higher or lower, because of this bill?  yes, the transition from saudi oil dependence (the bush legacy) to independent green energy (the lib plan) will be an expensive one...

but in the long run, will it be cheaper as a result?

It will be much more expensive...The so called alternative energy sources,...wind, solar, etc will always be more expensive, because they are disperse, not in small packages, not energy dense.  The only non combustible energy source that would be less expensive is nuclear, and people are stupidly afraid of it...Thermonuclear would work, but the technology has not been developed yet.  Thermonuclear is where fission was in the 1920's,...the math has been done to show that it would work, you have to design the machines now.


Look up:Sumptuary law...because this is what it is...

[headhuntersix]

Amazing isnt it?  Cap & Trade is a failure everywhere it has been tried yet ZERO and the Rats think this is going to end up different???

They really suck and hate America.

The aussies came to DC to get reassurances about global warming, in order to pass their own bill. The Obama admin couldn't do it nor could they provide data to support the position. The asussies might not pass their bill. This is all made up bullshit. Gore stands to be the first Green Billionaire.

[240 is Back]

It will be much more expensive...The so called alternative energy sources,...wind, solar, etc will always be more expensive, because they are disperse, not in small packages, not energy dense.  The only non combustible energy source that would be less expensive is nuclear, and people are stupidly afraid of it...Thermonuclear would work, but the technology has not been developed yet.  Thermonuclear is where fission was in the 1920's,...the math has been done to show that it would work, you have to design the machines now.
Look up:Sumptuary law...because this is what it is...

Interesting, thnaks.

is the Obama thinking, something along the lines of...

"It will START more expensive, then over time innovations will make it cheaper.  At the same time, with the dollar de-valuation and prices of oil being jacked up, it'll at some point become cheaper to be green than depend on oil"

I mean, if gas was suddenly $20 a gallon - for whatver reason - then green solutions might be better/cheaper?

I have no clue how the numebrs work... just looking at why in the world obama/pelosi would push this?

[sync pulse]

I mean, if gas was suddenly $20 a gallon - for whatver reason - then green solutions might be better/cheaper?

I have no clue how the numebrs work... just looking at why in the world obama/pelosi would push this?

Sumptuary regulation,...the World wants the United States to be poor...

Interesting, thnaks.

is the Obama thinking, something along the lines of...

"It will START more expensive, then over time innovations will make it cheaper.  At the same time, with the dollar de-valuation and prices of oil being jacked up, it'll at some point become cheaper to be green than depend on oil"

Regardless of how high the market price of fossil fuel is,... wind, solar, and the alternatives,...will be more, because you have to concentrate it before you can use it.  Wind, solar, tides, thermal gradient, is spread out over a large area, whereas fossil fuels are found already concentrated in small packages

[240 is Back]

Regardless of how high the market price of fossil fuel is,... wind, solar, and the alternatives,...will be more, because you have to concentrate it before you can use it.  Wind, solar, tides, thermal gradient, is spread out over a large area, whereas fossil fuels are found already concentrated in small packages

i agree with that.  And I'm learning on this topic, I do'nt know much about it.

At some point though - no matter how costly/complex these 'green' alternative sources are - there is a price point where green costs less than oil.  maybe it's $150 or $200 or $300 per barrel. 

This could happen, in some perfect storm of events.  if Iran gets stupid and someone bombs them, and the dollar drops major chunk in value, and maybe another event or two, all about the same time - and yeah, oil could jump a lot.  Maybe obama foresees the world going to shit and = while it's gonna suck by today's prices - it's cheaper than what the cost for oil will be down the road?

Just looking at it from the 'why in the world would we do this bill' angle.  Maybe if shit hits fan in middle east, as dollar sucks and oil jumps, there is a price point where obama's expensive-ass plan would be cheaper.

[sync pulse]

I think many politicians/activists are pushing this because they think that you will be able to power a technological society at the same level we have today  with these "alternative" technologies...they are wrong.

[MM2K]

Just looking at it from the 'why in the world would we do this bill' angle.  Maybe if shit hits fan in middle east, as dollar sucks and oil jumps, there is a price point where obama's expensive-ass plan would be cheaper.

They're heads are filled with a dangerous sense of hubris. That is really all I can think of at this point. A lot of them admit that elecricity prices would probably skyrocket.

[Soul Crusher]

I think many politicians/activists are pushing this because they think that you will be able to power a technological society at the same level we have today  with these "alternative" technologies...they are wrong.

Of course they are wrong.  This is pure insanity at its worst.

The make people pay more for energy in a time of severe recession is only going to result in less economic activity. 

Additionally, China, India, and Russia are not going to agree to similiarly cap their activities like we are.

I am speechless thinking about the long term consequences of this garbage.   

[GigantorX]

The joke is def. going to be on whatever is left of our manufacturing sector. Once it's clear that most other industry heavy countries aren't going to "follow our lead", they will instead "eat our lunch". Corporations will not stay here and get raped but instead move their manufacturing operations (the ones that haven't left yet for a better business environment) to China, India, Eastern Europe etc.

This is a bad bill, a suicide bill. It doesn't/didn't work in Europe. I love that Pelosi and the idiots always say that the U.S. has to "lead by example." Like magically China will allow a suicide bill like Cap&Trade to be enacted in their country because the U.S. did.

A fucking joke.

[Soul Crusher]

The joke is def. going to be on whatever is left of our manufacturing sector. Once it's clear that most other industry heavy countries aren't going to "follow our lead", they will instead "eat our lunch". Corporations will not stay here and get raped but instead move their manufacturing operations (the ones that haven't left yet for a better business environment) to China, India, Eastern Europe etc.

This is a bad bill, a suicide bill. It doesn't/didn't work in Europe. I love that Pelosi and the idiots always say that the U.S. has to "lead by example." Like magically China will allow a suicide bill like Cap&Trade to be enacted in their country because the U.S. did.

A fucking joke.

The ramifications of this bill are horrific for everyone but Al Gore who stands to make billions off the taxpayer.