Author Topic: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)  (Read 1159 times)

Soul Crusher

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EZEKIEL EMANUEL AND THE OBAMA CARE FINAL SOLUTION
Jeffhead.com ^ | 8-10-09 | Ezekiel Emanuel


Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 7:24:53 PM by SJackson

Is the "Final Solution" wording that was added to this revamped Obama Health Care graphic warranted? Some might see it as a simple play on words.

But before you decide how to consider that wording, please read the following shocking quotes from Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the chief health-care policy adviser to President Barack Hussein Obama, and (not coincidentily) the brother of Obama's chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel.

From: Principles of allocation of scarce medical interventions, January 31, 2009
Also see: Deadly Doctors, New York Post, June 24, 2009

"Strict youngest-first allocation directs scarce resources predominantly to infants. This approach seems incorrect. The death of a 20-year-old woman is intuitively worse than that of a 2-month-old girl, even though the baby has had less life. The 20-year-old has a much more developed personality than the infant, and has drawn upon the investment of others to begin as-yet-unfulfilled projects.... Adolescents have received substantial substantial education and parental care, investments that will be wasted without a complete life. Infants, by contrast, have not yet received these investments.... It is terrible when an infant dies, but worse, most people think, when a three-year-old child dies, and worse still when an adolescent does." [/color]

"Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years. Treating 65-year olds differently because of stereotypes or falsehoods would be ageist; treating them differently because they have already had more life-years is not."
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"Ultimately, the complete lives system does not create 'classes of Untermenschen whose lives and well being are deemed not worth spending money on,' but rather empowers us to decide fairly whom to save when genuine scarcity makes saving everyone impossible."
"When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated"

"Every favor to a constituency should be linked to support for the health-care reform agenda. If the automakers want a bailout, then they and their suppliers have to agree to support and lobby for the administration's health-reform effort."


From: Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008

"Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others"

From: Health Affairs Feb. 27, 2008

"Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality are merely 'lipstick' cost control, more for show and public relations than for true change,"


From: What Are the Potential Cost Savings from Legalizing Physician-Assisted Suicide? New England Journal of Medicine, July 1998

(These quotes add new context to the "End-of-Life" Counseling sessions required every 5 years for all seniors over 65 in Obama Care.)

"There is a widespread perception that the United States spends an excessive amount on high-technology health care for dying patients. Many commentators note that 27 to 30 percent of the Medicare budget is spent on the 5 percent of Medicare patients who die each year. They also note that the expenditures increase exponentially as death approaches, so that the last month of life accounts for 30 to 40 percent of the medical care expenditures in the last year of life. To many, savings from reduced use of expensive technological interventions at the end of life are both necessary and desirable."

"Many have linked the effort to reduce the high cost of death with the legalization of physician-assisted suicide. One commentator observed: "Managed care and managed death [through physician-assisted suicide] are less expensive than fee-for-service care and extended survival. Less expensive is better." Some of the amicus curiae briefs submitted to the Supreme Court expressed the same logic: "Decreasing availability and increasing expense in health care and the uncertain impact of managed care may intensify pressure to choose physician-assisted suicide" and "the cost effectiveness of hastened death is as undeniable as gravity. The earlier a patient dies, the less costly is his or her care."

"Although the cost savings to the United States and most managed-care plans are likely to be small, it is important to recognize that the savings to specific terminally ill patients and their families could be substantial. For many patients and their families, especially but not exclusively those without health insurance, the costs of terminal care may result in large out-of-pocket expenses. Nevertheless, as compared with the average American, the terminally ill are less likely to be uninsured, since more than two thirds of decedents are Medicare beneficiaries over 65 years of age. The poorest dying patients are likely to be Medicaid beneficiaries. Extrapolating from the Medicare data, one can calculate that a typical uninsured patient, by dying one month earlier by means of physician-assisted suicide, might save his or her family $10,000 in health care costs, having already spent as much as $20,000 in that year."

"Drawing on data from the Netherlands on the use of euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide and on available U.S. data on costs at the end of life, this analysis explores the degree to which the legalization of physician-assisted suicide might reduce health care costs. The most reasonable estimate is a savings of $627 million, less than 0.07 percent of total health care expenditures."

From: Where Civic Republicanism and Deliberative Democracy Meet, Hastings Center Report, Nov.-Dec.1996

"This civic republican or deliberative democratic conception of the good provides both procedural and substantive insights for developing a just allocation of health care resources. Procedurally, it suggests the need for public forums to deliberate about which health services should be considered basic and should be socially guaranteed. Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future generations, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia."


These quotes are something you would expect from Dr. Mengle of the Nazi Germany years, or perhaps the ultra progressives from earlier years who were pushing Eugenics.

They might be something you would expect today from some very fringe, wild-eyed population control radicals.

But they are not. These are the words from the chief advisor to the President of the United States on health care and a chief architect of the health care plans being forumlated by the Obama administration and the democratic controlled Congress.

These are absolutely un-American, far left, radical views. The Health Care Plan developed by the proponent of this thinking is sure to contain provisions, processes, and planning for the longer range implementation of these steely-eyed, radical goals and principle of its inventor, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel.

Do not fall for the platitudes and the revisionism or assurances of the people pushiung this plan. It is a radical plan and it will lead to single payer, complete governmental control of health care. A command economy of health care much more akin to what someone like Karl Marx would implement to go hand and hand with his political philospohpies.

The president, in a less-guarded moment before running for the Presidency out lined his true goals with respect to Health Care, and now he has the congress and the advisors he thinks will lead him there.

“I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. That’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we’ve got to take back the White House, we’ve got to take back the Senate, and we’ve got to take back the House.”

When you add to this the President and his Whitehouse staff's pronouncment of Aug 4, 2009, that Americans should listen to other Americans casual conversation and then turn in those people or web-sites that voice anything "fishy" in opposition to the health care plan, and add it together with the pronouncements of the Chief Health-Care advisors, the wording on the graphic above comes into much clearer focus.

________________________ ________________________ _______

Once again, Sarah Palin was right. 

They are going to kill off people by denying care and the plans' architect laid it all out.   



The True Adonis

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2009, 05:31:44 AM »
Sarah Palin backed off of her previous comments.  Thought you`d might like to know that.

Soul Crusher

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2009, 05:34:35 AM »
Sarah Palin backed off of her previous comments.  Thought you`d might like to know that.

Either way, she is right, and the quotes I provided from the architect of the bill is extremely clear in the approach to curtailing costs - DENYING CARE TO SICK AND OLD PEOPLE. 

What part of Emanuels' plan and quotes do you not understand?
 

Soul Crusher

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2009, 05:37:46 AM »
Sarah Palin backed off of her previous comments.  Thought you`d might like to know that.

Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia."

TA - what in that quote do you not understand? 

Additionally, will you now concede that the concerns of the father in the video you posted are justified in light of these quotes from the bills' architect? 

The True Adonis

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2009, 05:41:22 AM »
Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia."

TA - what in that quote do you not understand? 

Additionally, will you now concede that the concerns of the father in the video you posted are justified in light of these quotes from the bills' architect? 
I don`t understand what you are talking about.  The retarded kid will be covered if he chooses the public plan.  He does not have to choose it you know.

Soul Crusher

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2009, 05:45:32 AM »
I don`t understand what you are talking about.  The retarded kid will be covered if he chooses the public plan.  He does not have to choose it you know.

Ok, maybe you did not read what is being proposed - they are creating medical boards based on a "community standard" along the lines of what Emanuel is talking about here.

There is simply no way Obama is going to be able to afford his plan to cover the 45 million new people without massive rationing along the lines of what Emanuel has very clearly written about here. 

I know it is ghoulish and unreal to even contemplate the thought process of something like this, but Emanuel laid it all out.   What part of his quotes do you not believe?       

 

The True Adonis

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2009, 06:00:12 AM »
Ok, maybe you did not read what is being proposed - they are creating medical boards based on a "community standard" along the lines of what Emanuel is talking about here.

There is simply no way Obama is going to be able to afford his plan to cover the 45 million new people without massive rationing along the lines of what Emanuel has very clearly written about here. 

I know it is ghoulish and unreal to even contemplate the thought process of something like this, but Emanuel laid it all out.   What part of his quotes do you not believe?       

 
Everything I have read from Emmanuel, who works at the NIH, has him supporting Single Payer Healthcare in a Guaranteed Healthcare Access Plan.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel_J._Emanuel


The True Adonis

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2009, 06:03:01 AM »
http://www.pbs.org/now/news/315.html

Emmanuel`s plan is Single Payer in that everyone is given a voucher.  Check it out.

Soul Crusher

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2009, 06:11:34 AM »
DAVID BRANCACCIO: Dr. Emanuel, welcome.

DR. EMANUEL: Thank you. Glad to be here.

BRANCACCIO: Zeke is ok, I can call you Zeke?

DR. EMANUEL: Absolutely.

BRANCACCIO: Alright. Well give me some of this plan now. You're not talking about Canada or Britain, where the government pays doctors—for all this. What are you proposing?

DR. EMANUEL: Our proposal is for universal healthcare vouchers. It's a plan where everybody in America gets a voucher to buy health insurance from an insurance company or health plan or a managed care organization. And they get a basic benefits package. If they want to buy more, they want—wider choice of doctors, they want better services, say, better eye glass services, or they want more mental health services, they can pay more and they can buy up.

Their employer isn't involved, so there's continuity. They stay—stay with the same plan whether they change jobs, or unfortunately get fired. The plans cannot, say, "We're going to exclude you for preexisting conditions." They have to reinsure that.

BRANCACCIO: What's in it for—'cause you still have insurance companies in this plan. You haven't eradicated insurance companies. So—what if you're decrepit, and you show up—with your little voucher. Why should they take you?

DR. EMANUEL: So every insurance company would, to participate, would be required to take the voucher. That's the first thing. The second thing is that doesn't mean that they would get paid the same amount no matter what people—what illness people have. The point you're saying is, look, some people use more healthcare resources.

And there would be a reason for the insurance company not to cover them. We take care of that by what is called risk adjustment. That is the national health board, when they give money to the insurance company to cover a person, pays extra for sicker people, and less for healthy people. That eliminates the incentive for insurance companies to skim the cream, or drop the lemons.

BRANCACCIO: Cherry pick I believe is the term these people use.

DR. EMANUEL: Or that's right. That's another one.

BRANCACCIO: Well, let's review some of the other advantages of the plan as you see it. So you wouldn't have employers doing this.

DR. EMANUEL: Absolutely.

BRANCACCIO: Which would relieve some burden on America's overburdened corporations.

DR. EMANUEL: Absolutely. I think—I think—some of the biggest supporters of this plan will be businesses. They want—their employees to have insurance, but the costs are becoming too high, too astronomical for them.

So they would get out of the game entirely. And I think that's a good thing. One of the benefits for employees would be they would probably see their wages go up. 'Cause, right now, employers—are playing whatever it is, ten, 15 percent, of—of their labor cost to health insurance. That money would be, if the economists are right, transferred as increases in wages.

BRANCACCIO: Not just a shareholder value?

DR. EMANUEL: Well, it might go to shareholder value. But, again, they're going to have to compete for workers. And it probably—I mean the economists think it would go—predominantly to—workers in—increase in wages. So that would be a benefit.

BRANCACCIO: Now if I can speak for the—two million suspicious people watching us right now, when you talk about a basic package of—

DR. EMANUEL: Right.

BRANCACCIO: —medical coverage, what are you talking about? Are you talking about—the most advanced cancer care? Or what are you talking about?

DR. EMANUEL: You would probably get the same plan you have now as a basic benefits plan. Look at what the average employer is providing to their employee today. Take that premium and multiply it times all Americans. And how much does that come out?

BRANCACCIO: I thought a component of this was an added tax. What the Europeans call value added tax, sales tax, sort of.

DR. EMANUEL: Right. Well, if the states aren't paying Medicaid anymore, and employers aren't paying for insurance, we would have to find the money to pay for this. We wouldn't add more money, but we'd—you'd have to get basically—recoup somehow how employers are paying for it and how the states are paying for Medicaid. And that would be—we've proposed to finance this by a value added tax.

That means that, when you buy something, the added value is taxed. The tax would be about eight to ten of purchases—if you eliminate food and some other items that—poor people disproportionately buy. And, again—it—you're going to have to pay for this somehow. It is going to be a tax.

BRANCACCIO: This seems a little shocking if you add the ten percent to the nine percent sales tax they're already charging in California. Nineteen percent sales tax.

DR. EMANUEL: Well, but—remember what you get for that. So—your wages should increase—because you're no longer paying—your employer is no longer paying for you health insurance, and should transfer that money to your salary increase. And there is this benefit of guaranteed healthcare. The overall—and your—by the way, your state taxes should go down if Medicaid is no longer part of the state—budget demand. So all of those things—should—we're not demanding any more money devoted to healthcare. We're just shifting how we get it.


BRANCACCIO: But still insurance companies there in the middle. They're sort of—I love insurance companies as much as the next guy. But they're kind of middle men. And there have been arguments by health—policy experts—

DR. EMANUEL: Right.

BRANCACCIO: That they're kind of noise in the system.

DR. EMANUEL: One of the things that I think is important going forward, to make healthcare more efficient, and to get continuity of coverage better—is to have vertically integrated health plans.

Where your doctor works with the hospital, works with the pharmacy. Works with the home health aid. Works with skilled nursing facilities. So that you're not sort of picking and choosing in the—in the whole system is just broken into parts.

That does require someone to vertically integrate health plans, health insurance companies. Where we would change from the current system—is the following. Right now in America there are about 1,300 health insurance companies. Many of them very small niche players. They cater to very small companies, but they add a lot of administrative costs —in the sense of they've got a different billing system. And so people have to keep up with that. In our plan, we would estimate that we would cut that down to about 50 or 60 plans throughout the country.

BRANCACCIO: You'd also get rid of those insurance companies, and there are some, who only like to insure people who will never get sick.

DR. EMANUEL: Absolutely. You can—in—again, in this proposal you'd have to take whoever walks through the door.


BRANCACCIO: Is it not troublesome to you that, under your plan, a wealthy person could buy some really "souped" up coverage that a poorer person could not get access to. There'd be this basic inequality.

DR. EMANUEL: You don't think that happens now? From a practical standpoint, the rich can always buy. It seems to me the ethical question, the question of justice, is are people getting a good basic benefits package? And is—the—is everyone getting that?

It is not required, I don't think, from an ethical standpoint, from a matter of justice, for that government to provide everything that could possibly be—be done for everybody in the country. We would go bankrupt.

BRANCACCIO: You think Republicans and Democrats could embrace a voucher plan? Of the sort that you're discussing?

DR. EMANUEL: I think so. And I'll say why. I think for the Democrats—the universality. The fact that everyone's in the system. Everyone gets the same basic benefits package, is appealing

I think Republicans, I think what they want to be sure is, it's not a—big government entitlement with no—with unlimited—budgets like Medicare. They want to make sure that Americans get choice. That we retain a private delivery system.

We have all of those in the voucher program. So I think the universal part appeals to the Democrats. The voucher part appeals to Republicans. And I think it should make us one big happy family. And we should just pass it.

BRANCACCIO: Well, Zeke, Dr. Emanuel, thank you very much.

DR. EMANUEL: It's been a great pleasure to be here.

BRANCACCIO: Ezekiel Emanuel is a bio-ethicist at the National Institutes of Health.

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________________________ ________________________ ________________________ ________________

No thanks TA - we are already taxed to death and a VAT will destroy the economy on top of the SS, FICA, income, property, sales, taxes we already pay. 
 
 
 

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2009, 06:30:57 AM »
Ok, maybe you did not read what is being proposed - they are creating medical boards based on a "community standard" along the lines of what Emanuel is talking about here.

There is simply no way Obama is going to be able to afford his plan to cover the 45 million new people without massive rationing along the lines of what Emanuel has very clearly written about here. 

I know it is ghoulish and unreal to even contemplate the thought process of something like this, but Emanuel laid it all out.   What part of his quotes do you not believe?       


Once again, the “bust-a-cap-in-Granny” clause rears its ugly head. And, the Democrats have the gall to wonder why people are protesting, AT THEIR OWN TOWNHALL MEETINGS, over this foolishness. They're going to be taxed out the anus, only to be told that it ain't cost-effective to attempt to save their lives.


George Whorewell

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2009, 05:04:43 PM »
Bump for the braindead liberals on this message board that have failed to respond.

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2009, 06:36:53 PM »
"333" - looks like you got duped yet again.

http://airamerica.com/maddow/blog/2009/aug/12/senoirs-are-targeted-astroturf-scare-campiagn-video

"It should be no surprise that McCaughey’s current intellectual home, the Hudson Institute, is bankrolled by the pharmaceutical industry. One should then be even less surprised that Big Pharma is also funding the 60 Plus Association, a so-called elderly advocacy organization for seniors which is trying to scare said seniors into believing Betsy McCaughey's lies about how the government wants to kill them with a multi-million dollar ad campaign."

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 05:54:39 AM »
"333" - looks like you got duped yet again.

http://airamerica.com/maddow/blog/2009/aug/12/senoirs-are-targeted-astroturf-scare-campiagn-video

"It should be no surprise that McCaughey’s current intellectual home, the Hudson Institute, is bankrolled by the pharmaceutical industry. One should then be even less surprised that Big Pharma is also funding the 60 Plus Association, a so-called elderly advocacy organization for seniors which is trying to scare said seniors into believing Betsy McCaughey's lies about how the government wants to kill them with a multi-million dollar ad campaign."

WHICH QUOTE HAS EMANUEL SAID ARE NOT HIS???????

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Re: EZEKIEL EMANUEL and "death panels" (Sarah Palin was right again)
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2009, 09:09:36 AM »
WHICH QUOTE HAS EMANUEL SAID ARE NOT HIS???????

BUMP FOR A RESPONSE:


WHICH QUOTE HAS HE DISCLAIMED OR DISOWNED?