Democratic Underground: "Its time to blame Obama"

[Soul Crusher]

Tom Rinaldo's Journal
OK, I'm ready to blame Obama
Posted by Tom Rinaldo in General Discussion: Presidency
Wed Dec 16th 2009, 11:57 AM

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Not all by himself of course, but until now my position on HCR has been "wait and see", let's see what emerges before casting any stones. I've also been an agnostic on the theory of Obama as a three dimensional chess master, but I was willing to give him the advantage of the doubt. I wouldn't second guess his tactics until I weighed the fruit it bore.

I accept that no one issue exists in a vacuum totally separate from all others, and that Obama must stay mindful of his total political agenda. I understand that there's some truth in the concept of limited political capital, and so it must always be spent wisely. So begrudgingly I accepted that Obama might be willing to accept 2/3rds of a loaf on HCR for a somewhat modest expenditure of political capital rather than investing a lot more heavily to win 3/4ths of a loaf instead. I drew my own private marker in the sand; inclusion of a viable public option in whatever HCR ultimately emerges (and I had my own good reasons for choosing it that I won't go into in this OP.) Then I watched and waited.

Now I'm ready to blame Obama for his role in bringing us to where we stand today. And no, I haven't forgotten that Obama left his seat in the Senate when he was elected President, I am just not willing to buy into the fiction that the acknowledged popular leader of the Democratic Party has no important say in the strategy that the Democratic Party follows inside the Senate.   When was the last time you heard anyone refer to the Reid stimulus program, that he got through the Senate with the help of three Republicans? Or Reid's budget? Does anyone believe for an instant that the only reason why the White House has been seated at the table in every closed door Senate leadership meeting exploring Senate legislative strategy on HCR for the last couple of months was out of mere courtesy?

I blame Obama along with our entire Congressional leadership, not instead of that leadership, but I will not blame our Congressional leadership instead of Obama. And no I will not place the primary blame on Joe Lieberman. He is the same skunk today that he was when he campaigned for McCain/Palin. Lieberman was a known quantity who had to be factored in, with back up plans to work around if need be. The back up plan is and always was the reconciliation route to pass legislation through the Senate. Regulatory reform of the private insurance industry can be stripped of any attempt to broaden the public sector health insurance programs and put to a normal Senate vote - those provisions do not qualify for reconciliation. But expanding medicare and offering individuals below the age that would qualify for an expanded medicare a viable public option, those proposals have significant budgetary impacts, and therefor qualify for reconciliation legislation.

I have not heard Obama advocate for that approach. I have only heard Obama advocate that progressives support health care reform legislation that stripped a public option our of it. I will not hold Obama blameless if that is all that ultimately gets enacted. I am coming around to the position that this administration does not want to see the role of the public sector significantly expanded as part of health care reform. I suspect that the reason why reconciliation is not being pursued is a recognition that it will be hard to dilute liberal demands for exactly that if only 50 Senate votes are needed to achieve a clearly liberal agenda.
Discuss (50 comments) | Recommend (+33 votes)


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Ouch.  When you lose DU, its over.  

[Soul Crusher]

Damn they are pissed off! 
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Captain Hilts  (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-16-09 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. He's to blame for the sloppiness of the process. Not so much the result. nt
 
 
 Armstead (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-16-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The sl;oppiness of the process IS the result
 They had a choice of pursuing sweepiung significant reform or incremental steps in that directions. Obama was setting the agenda.

If they were not prepared to offer a real public health service, they should have shut up and focused on starting a series of incremental changes that would have gotten through a lot more easily.

But they overpromised without being able or willing to actually deliver much. That pissed off both the right and left.

That was a sloppy process and it is Omaba's fault for not setting the framework more strategically.



7. I agree. nt
 
 Armstead (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-16-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. The sloppiness of the typing above is my fault
 

 iceman66 (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-16-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Obama should not have pushed for sweeping reform,  unless he knew in advance that he had the votes in Congress.

That was a mistake.

  chimpymustgo  (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-16-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. I think the sloppiness was part of the plan. Make it LOOK as though they tried, they really tried,  but, in the end, well you see what happened.

A LOT of Dems are hiding behind LIEberman's skirt today, including his old mentee and pal, Obama.



 Tesha  (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-16-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. He's the President. He could be on TV (or YouTube, its modern equivalent) EVERY NIGHT  Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 12:07 PM by Tesha
urging people to call their Senators and demand a robust public option. (Or even, dare I say it, a single-payer plan?).

But he isn't doing anything like that.

There's plenty of blame to lay at his obviously-clay feet.

Tesha
 
 
 Captain Hilts  (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-16-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I agree he hasn't had much fight in him. The process has been a shambles. nt
 


 TheWraith  (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-16-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. And do you imagine that somehow that's going to change the math?  Not enough votes in the Senate for a public option is not enough votes in the Senate for a public option. Obama can't conjure a dozen more senators out of his pockets. 



Response to Reply #8
9. That's exactly right. But the process, for which he is responsible, has reinforced the stereotype  that Democrats can't govern or run anything.

It's a legislative clusterfuck.




 bertman  (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-16-09 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #8

48. Yes it could have changed the math. Had the President rallied his supporters to go out  into the states where the holdouts reside, door-to-door educating, rallying, cajoling, etc. he could have scared the bejesus out of the likes of Baucus, Nelson, Landrieu. They do not want to lose their seats. The Obama grassroots network would have turned out for him IF HE HAD ASKED US TO DO IT. Instead, he retreated from day one.

Hell, Joe Lieberman promised his Connecticut constituents that he would fight for universal health care. Running that sound byte day in and day out, along with a strong grassroots effort might have even worked against that recalcitrant bastard--except, as many have already asserted, he may have been the selected spoiler all along.
 
 
 TheKentuckian (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-16-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. People can bug the shit out of their Senators but that doesn't change votes  I'm sure Connecticut has been up Joe's ass the whole way but he doesn't give a shit nor does the ineptitude that is Blanche Lincoln who thumbs her nose at her party's wishes and even the majority of the state, despite being in deep trouble.

Obama could be Jimmy Swaggert with his hair on fire 24/7 and that still would never get close to 60 on Single Payer or anything close to it. Demanding doesn't always mean you get what you requested. He can put his thumb on the scale but that thumb doesn't necessarily have the weight to change the final result. There are costs to demanding things from your own party and regularly getting the big N O out on front street, maybe the dude had a count on the votes he could move.

Hell, you can cut funding, strip chairmanships, and even kick a guy out of the caucus but still end up with nothing and be stuck with doing jack apple shit until hopefully after the next election.

I'd have to agree that the real mess up was not accepting the reality of what could realistically be worked through Congress as it stands. Comprehensive packages have proven to be too much to process for this group, we needed an unending buffet of tiny bites I guess because these full plates just end up an unfilling mess. I also think he probably should have tried financial regulatory reform first just because it was a kind of a strike while the iron is hot type thing that might have took on a life of it's own and actually got something productive done before the jackals could fully organize.
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 Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-16-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #21

28. Making significant threats and being prepared to back them up works better   The role of the public sector in the HCR that Lieberman plans to filibuster if it remains in the bill, was a pale heavily compromised version of what the majority of Democrats want. The threat that has a real sting is this; stop standing in the way of a good faith compromise that leaned over backward to please you or face what you really fear; a much stronger and broader public role in health care insurance that really WOULD threaten to put private insurers out of business. Like old Teddy used to say, talk softly but carry a big stick. Democrats and Obama did talk softly. Obama and team made tons of compromises, but they forgot to carry the big stick. That big stick can be swung by using the process called reconciliation that would make poor Joe irrelevant, with only 50 Senators plus Biden needed to bring about his worst nightmare. But that stick hasn't even been brandished. Obama and team have chosen to leave that stick locked up somewhere in a dusty locker.



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 paulk (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-16-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. they left that stick locked up  because the legislation that we're getting is the legislation that they've wanted from the beginning.
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 snagglepuss (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-16-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. K & R nt


 
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 AndyA  (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-16-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. Better put your deflector shields on FULL POWER, you'll be attacked for your opinion.   Reality seems to be escaping some these days, and excuses in multiples, along with attacks on the person posting things that don't show full support are the mode of response.

There are many who agree with you, however.
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 Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-16-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #4


13. Yup. I decided to pick a blunt OP title because might as well face it all up front n/t 

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 Bobbieo (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-16-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. I get the impression that Michelle and Barack wake up every morning and ask one another

 "What kind of fun can we have today?"
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 SammyWinstonJack  (1000+ posts)        Wed Dec-16-09 12:54 PM


Response to Reply #14
25. +1
 Having the time of their lives, eh, at our expense. How's that 'historic' election working out for us NOW?   
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 Blasphemer  (1000+ posts)      Wed Dec-16-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
44. Indeed. The wagons are circling.... nt