DEAR FATHER, BLESS ME FOR I HAVE SINNED...

[4thAD]

I see your point here and no, I wasn't taking about you. I personally would not even do a major PCT for a 250mg cycle being it would still keep most of us in the natural level maybe not even shut you done too bad, maybe not at all.
I myself do take much more than that.

I have myself a buddy as we speak taking 8 i.u. hgh ed, 500mg primo ew, 40mg anavar ed, and 1gm test a week, and 100 mcg clen ed.... 5 weeks in and he looks like total shit, worse than when he started imo. No amount of drugs can replace dedication and consistansy in training and dieting. When you got someone who has his bases covered give him some d-bol, test and deca and a few years of moderate cycles you can have an execellent bber's physique

It feels to me we are being hypocritical when we tell these first time newbs, 'dude these are powerful drugs man do your reseach' but are telling them that taking a much more moderate dose in stupid. I say to all those that approach me, 'take this, see how you feel in 5 weeks if it going good bump it up a couple 100 mg o whatever, see what thats like...' I'm just worried when people feel there is some kind of minimum... when there isn't really any scientific research that says so, merely anecdotal.

Again, I am only speaking from my experience and from my knowledge base.
I been reading this board for a very long time and love the debate and exchange of ideas, the sharing of experience. I respect everyone's opinions but stand by mine when my experience says other wise.

I don't think we disagree for the most part. Reread my thoughts on this subject. You kind of contradict your self by saying how great 250mg ew will be for somebody, and then you say there is no sense in even doing a PCT because it will keep most in the natty levels. I disagree about the PCT part, as reverse feedback loops will still be in effect, the HTPA will be shut down and the leydig will be dying off, even at 250mg test. Like I said in previous posts, Yes gains can be made, but not real serious bb type gains. If 250mg will keep most in the natty range, IMO its a waste of gear, unless you are bridging a cycle, or are running TRT.

[mrgut]

Yeah for those most part we do agree.

You kind of contradict your self by saying how great 250mg ew will be for somebody, and then you say there is no sense in even doing a PCT because it will keep most in the natty levels. I disagree about the PCT part, as reverse feedback loops will still be in effect, the HTPA will be shut down and the leydig will be dying off, even at 250mg test. Like I said in previous posts, Yes gains can be made, but not real serious bb type gains. If 250mg will keep most in the natty range

I am only saying I would possibly not do a major PCT as you would not be shut down as hard as a higher dose or from a more aggressive compound. I do not agree that HTPA will be shut down... will it down regulate yes, shut down, no. I did say for those who are virgins to gear 250mg to start would just be fine for a few extra pounds of muscle. People here seem to be in too big of a rush to get massive without testing the waters w/ steroids or paying your dues in the gym. I mean it seems we are treating this as the only cycle that they are going to have when we both know there are many more to follow. Plenty of opportunity to use higher doses, different compounds etc... Why not try 250mg a week first? Everyone is different, and AAS response is different. These guys could be hyper responders for all we know.

[4thAD]

Good post brother! I agree about not needing a major PCT. Clomid or nolva alone will probably do the job. Good to have you posting on the board. I like what you have to say.

[WillGrant]

some people are forgetting something!
a shot of  250mg of TE is only 140-150 mg of actual testosterone. So in reality, running 500 is more like 350mg of test. So you guys who are saying 250mg of TE is 2.5 times natural male test production, WRONG!

o and btw....I know of only one person who made great gains on 250 a week, and they happened to be ICN's which are slightly overfilled anyways. just a   coincidence I guess

I can only use my own blood work as an example not bro logic on a forum..i cruise on 250mg a week and this puts my test levels at over two times the high end of whats considered "normal" ,test depot to what its refered to in the medical practionaires guide is meant to be prescribed every 21 days but is left to the practionaires discretion as everyone is different..now if every 21 days will take the "average" persons blood levels back into the mid range of normal , what will doing a ml every 7 days do?

Personaly Id run 2 ml a week(500mg) for a first up but to say a ml wont do nothing is silly because it will send your test levels over the normal end of high end by quite a bit.

I started with low test levels also , from abuse of pro hormones but decided to just self prescribe as the doctors wanted to see if they could get my levels back to normal before stating on TRT..the rest is history and i never come off .. 

[tstmaniac]

Agreed!