Author Topic: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay  (Read 751 times)

Eric15210

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Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« on: May 11, 2010, 07:33:25 AM »
In a state with the nation's highest jobless rate, landscaping companies are finding some job applicants are rejecting work offers so they can continue collecting unemployment benefits.

It is unclear whether this trend is affecting other seasonal industries. But the fact that some seasonal landscaping workers choose to stay home and collect a check from the state, rather than work outside for a full week and spend money for gas, taxes and other expenses, raises questions about whether extended unemployment benefits give the jobless an incentive to avoid work.

Members of the Michigan Nursery and Landscape Association "have told me that they have a lot of people applying but that when they actually talk to them, it turns out that they're on unemployment and not looking for work," said Amy Frankmann, the group's executive director. "It is starting to make things difficult."

Chris Pompeo, vice president of operations for Landscape America in Warren, said he has had about a dozen offers declined. One applicant, who had eight weeks to go until his state unemployment benefits ran out, asked for a deferred start date.

"It's like, you've got to be kidding me," Pompeo said. "It's frustrating. It's honestly something I've never seen before. They say, 'Oh, OK,' like I surprised them by offering them a job."

Some job applicants are asking to be paid in cash so they can collect unemployment illegally, said Gayle Younglove, vice president at Outdoor Experts Inc. in Romulus.

"Unfortunately, we feel the economy is promoting more and more people and companies to play the system and get paid or collect cash money so they don't have to pay taxes," Younglove said.

$12-per-hour jobs

A person becomes ineligible for benefits if he or she fails to accept suitable work, said Stephen Geskey, director of Michigan's Unemployment Insurance Agency.

The average landscape worker earns about $12 per hour, according to the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Growth. A full-time landscaping employee would make $225 more a week working than from an unemployment check of $255.

But after federal and state taxes are deducted, a full-time landscaper would earn $350 a week, or $95 more than a jobless check. The gap could narrow further for those who worked at other higher-paying seasonal jobs, such as construction or roofing, which would result in a larger benefits check.

The maximum weekly benefit an unemployed Michigan worker can receive is $387.

The jobless in Michigan are collecting for a longer time -- an average of 19.4 weeks last year, up from 15 weeks in 2008. State benefits last for up to 26 weeks.

The unemployed can then apply for extended federal benefits that increase the total time on the public dole up to a maximum of 99 weeks.

The federal jobless benefits extension "is the most generous safety net we've ever offered nationally," said David Littmann, senior economist of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, a free-market-oriented research group in Midland. The extra protection reduces the incentive to find work, he said.

It's impossible to know exactly how many workers are illegally declining employment, but 15 percent of Michigan's economy is underground, where people trade services, barter or exchange cash without reporting it to the government, Littmann said.

Working pays off

One former landscaper, who has been on unemployment for a year, said he will search for work when the benefits expire, but he estimates he earns about $50 to $60 less a week than he would if he were working.

"It's crazy," he said. "They keep doing all of these extensions."

But another analyst said working pays off for most seasonal laborers.

"That's a tough call for a family that's trying to pay its bills," said Sharon Parks, president and CEO of the Michigan League for Human Services, a Lansing-based nonprofit that helps low and moderate-income families toward economic self-sufficiency.

"But I think that by and large, people want to work because they need a paycheck," she said.

That is what other Metro Detroit landscaping companies are finding. They say business is up this season, and they have a steady stream of applicants eager to fill the orders.

"They can earn more money working for us than they can from getting unemployment," said Tony Konja, president of Artistic Outdoor Services in Farmington Hills.

"Finding talented people is, and always will be, a challenge," said Sam LaGrasso, president of United Lawnscape Inc. in Washington Township. "But if a company is focused on being good to its people and providing advancement opportunities, the talent will find you."

But B&L Landscaping in Oak Park finds the labor pool is noticeably weaker and less motivated, director Richard Angell said, even though the company still gets 80 to 100 applicants per week.

"We're just getting people coming in, filling out paperwork, hoping they won't get hired," Angell said. "... We're having a hard time finding quality applicants."

Gaming the system is "not surprising, but the question is how prevalent it is," the Unemployment Insurance Agency's Geskey said. "My gut tells me it may happen, but under the law, that person's benefits need to end."


http://detnews.com/article/20100510/BIZ/5100335/
RIP Bob Probert

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Re: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2010, 07:37:31 AM »
IS THIS A SHOCK?This is what liberalism brings us.

SAMSON123

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Re: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2010, 08:48:44 AM »
These same stories have been written over and over and are RIFE WITH LIES  from beginning to end. Landscapers are often migrant workers and rarely if ever can apply for unemployment in america. For those who can collect, the amount they will receive in unemployment will more than likely be less than 200 dollars per week. UE is based upon a person salary...it is not some amount given to everyone regardless of what the person made while working. According to the hourly rate given: 12 dollars (I doubt it is this high) the person would only make 25000 dollars per year before taxes and all. The UE rate is about a third of ones salary, so the person would end up getting about 8000 to 10000 per year from UE or about 192 dollars per week before taxes are taken out...hardly money to live off of let alone turn down job offers and the benefits of a job.


Quote
author=Eric15210 link=topic=330379.msg4714837#msg4714837 date=1273588405]
In a state with the nation's highest jobless rate, landscaping companies are finding some job applicants are rejecting work offers so they can continue collecting unemployment benefits.

Already shown to be a LIE

Quote
It is unclear whether this trend is affecting other seasonal industries. But the fact that some seasonal landscaping workers choose to stay home and collect a check from the state, rather than work outside for a full week and spend money for gas, taxes and other expenses, raises questions about whether extended unemployment benefits give the jobless an incentive to avoid work.

The writer can not even get a view of reality for the unemployed. The person will spend their money on rent, utilities, food and otehr essentials

Quote
Members of the Michigan Nursery and Landscape Association "have told me that they have a lot of people applying but that when they actually talk to them, it turns out that they're on unemployment and not looking for work," said Amy Frankmann, the group's executive director. "It is starting to make things difficult."

If a lot of people are applying and being interviewed how can it be said they are NOT looking for work? Is Amy Frankman that DUMB?

Quote
Chris Pompeo, vice president of operations for Landscape America in Warren, said he has had about a dozen offers declined. One applicant, who had eight weeks to go until his state unemployment benefits ran out, asked for a deferred start date.

How would this supposed president know how many weeks of unemployment this person has left? If he somehow was informed of this, how did he know the person asked for teh deferrment for this reason, or had medical reasons, family emergencies or some similar event that required his presence. Deferrments are common..appplicants may have other interviews and want to see which company will make the best offer/benefits etc or may have obligations they must fulfill before committing to a specific start date.

Quote
"It's like, you've got to be kidding me," Pompeo said. "It's frustrating. It's honestly something I've never seen before. They say, 'Oh, OK,' like I surprised them by offering them a job."

How frustrating can it be...IT IS A LANDSCAPING JOB...usually held by migrants. GMAFB

Quote
Some job applicants are asking to be paid in cash so they can collect unemployment illegally, said Gayle Younglove, vice president at Outdoor Experts Inc. in Romulus.

If the applicant is asking to be paid in cash it is because they are illegal and don't have a bank account, social security number and don't want to be tracked.

Quote
"Unfortunately, we feel the economy is promoting more and more people and companies to play the system and get paid or collect cash money so they don't have to pay taxes," Younglove said.

Unfortunately these companies are playing the game of paying a migrant HALF OF THE GOING RATE for the job with NO BENEFITS AT ALL...Come on don't try an bullshit the public.
$12-per-hour jobs

Quote
A person becomes ineligible for benefits if he or she fails to accept suitable work, said Stephen Geskey, director of Michigan's Unemployment Insurance Agency.

If the work is suitable meaning of same or very similar salary adn benefits, why would a person turn it down???

Quote
The average landscape worker earns about $12 per hour, according to the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Growth. A full-time landscaping employee would make $225 more a week working than from an unemployment check of $255.

Here the writer admits to their LIE. Why would a person acceoppt a far lower UE check which they could nto survive on as oppose to a salary and job that would come with additional benefits???

Quote
But after federal and state taxes are deducted, a full-time landscaper would earn $350 a week, or $95 more than a jobless check. The gap could narrow further for those who worked at other higher-paying seasonal jobs, such as construction or roofing, which would result in a larger benefits check.

UE check also has taxes taken out, so the there is no benefit in opting to stay on UE

Quote
The maximum weekly benefit an unemployed Michigan worker can receive is $387.

And this sum will require the person to make a minimum of 60,000 and higher per year in order to collect. A landscaper will get no where near that amount

Quote
The jobless in Michigan are collecting for a longer time -- an average of 19.4 weeks last year, up from 15 weeks in 2008. State benefits last for up to 26 weeks.

The unemployed can then apply for extended federal benefits that increase the total time on the public dole up to a maximum of 99 weeks.


Again most landscapers can NOT even collect UE, so this is a dead issue.

Quote
The federal jobless benefits extension "is the most generous safety net we've ever offered nationally," said David Littmann, senior economist of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, a free-market-oriented research group in Midland. The extra protection reduces the incentive to find work, he said.

GENEROUS?!?!!?!?!...It is the least you can do america being that you are responsible for bankers fucking over your whole nation, out sourcing all jobs, bringing millions of Central and South Americans into the nations to deliberately destroy your economy, playing various ponzi and hoodwinking schemes to defraud the citizens out of everything from jobs to pension to saving to investments...

Quote
It's impossible to know exactly how many workers are illegally declining employment, but 15 percent of Michigan's economy is underground, where people trade services, barter or exchange cash without reporting it to the government, Littmann said.

Michigan was in the SHITTER long before the financial collapse..C'mon

Working pays off

Quote
One former landscaper, who has been on unemployment for a year, said he will search for work when the benefits expire, but he estimates he earns about $50 to $60 less a week than he would if he were working.

And you found about this person how? And this person revealed his name and financial situation to a stranger who writes for the news for what reason?
Quote
"It's crazy," he said. "They keep doing all of these extensions."

CRAZY IS ALL OF THOSE BAILOUTS TO BANKS, INSURANCE COMPANIES, WALL STREET

But another analyst said working pays off for most seasonal laborers.

"That's a tough call for a family that's trying to pay its bills," said Sharon Parks, president and CEO of the Michigan League for Human Services, a Lansing-based nonprofit that helps low and moderate-income families toward economic self-sufficiency.

Quote
"But I think that by and large, people want to work because they need a paycheck," she said.

That is what other Metro Detroit landscaping companies are finding. They say business is up this season, and they have a steady stream of applicants eager to fill the orders.

These two comments put this whole article in derision. Your saying one thing and then turning around to claim otherwise...WTF

"They can earn more money working for us than they can from getting unemployment," said Tony Konja, president of Artistic Outdoor Services in Farmington Hills.

Quote
"Finding talented people is, and always will be, a challenge," said Sam LaGrasso, president of United Lawnscape Inc. in Washington Township. "But if a company is focused on being good to its people and providing advancement opportunities, the talent will find you."

And stop trying to get over on migrants

Quote
But B&L Landscaping in Oak Park finds the labor pool is noticeably weaker and less motivated, director Richard Angell said, even though the company still gets 80 to 100 applicants per week.

Huh?

Quote
"We're just getting people coming in, filling out paperwork, hoping they won't get hired," Angell said. "... We're having a hard time finding quality applicants."

If a person comes in their hopes will be TO GET HIRED!!!!...not the opposite

Quote
Gaming the system is "not surprising, but the question is how prevalent it is," the Unemployment Insurance Agency's Geskey said. "My gut tells me it may happen, but under the law, that person's benefits need to end."

Stop the WALL STREET FRAUD FIRST.


http://detnews.com/article/20100510/BIZ/5100335/

[/quote]
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Re: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2010, 10:16:10 AM »
Why dont we stop government fraud first.

dario73

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Re: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2010, 10:28:05 AM »
This is not a lie.

There are people, a lot of people, who reject work in order to collect benefits for 2 years. My lazy cousin is going on a year. His lazy aunt, no relation to me, received a notice from her employer that the company is moving to Texas. She mentioned taking a 2 year vacation.

There are lazy bastards who will suck every last drop of handout from the government. I am embarrassed that I know 2 of them.

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Re: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2010, 10:39:07 AM »
Many entry level jobs pay less than welfare.  Its the government again destroying this nation with this bs. 

SAMSON123

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Re: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2010, 11:10:51 AM »
Many entry level jobs pay less than welfare.  Its the government again destroying this nation with this bs. 

What kind of job pays less than welfare?
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Re: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 11:14:57 AM »
Most entry level jobs.  Do the math. 

SAMSON123

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Re: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 11:25:08 AM »
Most entry level jobs.  Do the math. 

I am not doing what you need to prove. You made a claim...back it up.
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Re: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2010, 11:29:00 AM »
I am not doing what you need to prove. You made a claim...back it up.

$10 an hour minus deductions = how much after deductions? 

SAMSON123

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Re: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2010, 11:52:46 AM »
$10 an hour minus deductions = how much after deductions? 

So that we don't spend forever beating around the bush...How much does welfare pay in New York?
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Re: Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 11:59:19 AM »
Cato Policy Report, November/December 1995

Welfare Pays Better Than Work, Study Finds
$36,000 a Year in Hawaii



Welfare benefits are far more generous than commonly thought and substantially exceed the amount a recipient could earn in an entry-level job. As a result, recipients are likely to choose welfare over work, increasing long-term dependence. Those are the principal findings in "The Work vs. Welfare Trade-Off" (Policy Analysis no. 240) by Michael Tanner, director of health and welfare studies; Stephen Moore, director of fiscal policy studies; and David Hartman, CEO of Hartland Bank in Austin, Texas. The paper was released at the height of the welfare debate in Congress.

The study examines the combined value of benefits--including Aid to Families with Dependent Children, food stamps, Medicaid, and others--for a typical welfare recipient in each of the 50 states. The value of those tax-free benefits is then compared with the amount of take-home income a worker would have left after paying taxes on an equivalent pretax income. The following are among the study's findings.

* To match the value of welfare benefits, a mother with two children would have to earn as much as $36,400 in Hawaii or as little as $11,500 in Mississippi.

* In New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, the District of Columbia, Hawaii, Alaska, and Rhode Island, welfare pays more than a $12.00-an-hour job--or more than two and a half times the minimum wage.

* In 40 states welfare pays more than an $8.00-an-hour job. In 17 states the welfare package is more generous than a $10.00-an-hour job.

* Welfare benefits are especially generous in large cities. Welfare provides the equivalent of an hourly pretax wage of $14.75 in New York City, $12.45 in Philadelphia, $11.35 in Baltimore, and $10.90 in Detroit.

* In 9 states welfare pays more than the average first-year salary for a teacher. In 29 states it pays more than the average starting salary for a secretary. In 47 states welfare pays more than a janitor earns. Indeed, in the 6 most generous states, benefits exceed the entry-level salary for a computer programmer.

The authors conclude that if Congress or state governments are serious about reducing welfare dependence and rewarding work, the most promising reform is to cut benefit levels substantially.

The study has been the subject of major news coverage. In a September 28 Wall Street Journal guest column, Tanner and Moore wrote, "The welfare reform proposals just passed by the Senate, and the earlier House version, are designed to reduce 'hard-core' welfare dependency and reward work. But we believe the most critical public policy implication of our findings is that ultimately these goals can be accomplished only by cutting benefit levels substantially. Unless and until this is done, Congress will have failed to end welfare as we know it."


Hourly Wage Equivalent of Welfare

Hawaii $17.50
Alaska  15.48
Massachusetts 14.66
Connecticut 14.23
Washington, D.C. 13.99
New York 13.13
New Jersey 12.74
Rhode Island  12.55
California 11.59
Virginia 11.11
Maryland 10.96
New Hampshire 10.96
Maine 10.38
Delaware 10.34
Colorado 10.05
Vermont 10.05
Minnesota 10.00
Washington 9.95
Nevada 9.71
Utah 9.57
Michigan 9.47
Pennsylvania 9.47
Illinois 9.33
Wisconsin 9.33
Oregon 9.23
Wyoming 9.18
Indiana 9.13
Iowa 9.13
New Mexico 8.94
Florida 8.75
Idaho 8.65
Oklahoma 8.51
Kansas 8.46
North Dakota 8.46
Georgia 8.37
Ohio 8.37
South Dakata 8.32
Louisana 8.17
Kentucky 8.08
North Carolina 8.08
Montana 7.84
South Carolina 7.79
Nebraska 7.64
Texas 7.31
West Virginia 7.31
Missouri 7.16
Arizona 6.78
Tennessee 6.59
Arkansas 6.35
Alabama 6.25
Mississippi 5.53

This article originally appeared in the November/December 1995 edition of Cato Policy Report.