Author Topic: Hey Mitch McConnell, Bush Economists Said Tax Cuts Did Grow the Deficit  (Read 917 times)

Danny

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4630
  • The original Superman
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/07/bush-economists-tax-cuts-i-did-i-grow-the-deficit/59728/

Republicans are entitled to their own opinions, but they're not entitled to their own separate reality.  When Republican Sen. Jon Kyl said on Fox News that tax cuts had no impact on the deficit, that was bad enough. But Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell grabs the wacko baton and sprints ahead when he tells TPMDC's Brian Beutler that "there's no evidence whatsoever that the Bush tax cuts actually diminished revenue. They increased revenue because of the vibrancy of these tax cuts in the economy."

Sen. McConnell might not believe the evidence provided by the Congressional Budget Office, the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, the Joint Tax Committee, or the Brookings Institution, all of which concludes that the Bush tax cuts added to the deficit.

But surely he should believe President George W. Bush's own Ph.D-wielding economists. Many of them have gone on the record to say that while they supported the tax cuts, they didn't for one second believe they raised government revenue.

1) The Council of Economic Advisers' Report to the President, 2003: "Although the economy grows in response to tax reductions (because of higher consumption in the short run and improved incentives in the long run), it is unlikely to grow so much that lost tax revenue is completely recovered by the higher level of economic activity."

2) The chair of CEA from 2003-2005, Greg Mankiw: "Some supply-siders like to claim that the distortionary effect of taxes is so large that increasing tax rates reduces tax revenue. Like most economists, I don't find that conclusion credible for most tax hikes, and I doubt Mr. Paulson does either."

3) He's right! Hank Paulson, Bush's last Treasury Secretary, doesn't: "As a general rule, I don't believe that tax cuts pay for themselves."

4) That opinion was shared by Andrew Samwick, Chief Economist on Council of Economic Advisers, 2003-2004: "No thoughtful person believes that this possible offset [the Bush tax cuts] more than compensated for the first effect for these tax cuts. Not a single one."...

5) ... and Edward Lazear, chair of the Council of Economic Advisers in 2007: "I certainly would not claim that tax cuts pay for themselves."
"What we do in life ECHOES in eternity "

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Yeah, because they did not cut spending.  They increased spending.  If you look at tax receipts, they grew higher than ever during the bush years.  The issue is that despite all the new revenues, they also increased spending. 

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Yeah, because they did not cut spending.  They increased spending.  If you look at tax receipts, they grew higher than ever during the bush years.  The issue is that despite all the new revenues, they also increased spending. 
EXACTLY!!!!

funny how ppl only look at the numbers they want to and disregard others...health care CBO numbers mean anything to you danny?

I bet you still think the health care bill is going to save us money dont you?

MM2K

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1398
It is believed that the tax cuts contributed to about 25% of the defecit. But in the end it is arguable that they contributed to the increase in revenues towards the end of the decade.

Oh, and Hank Paulson is a Democrat.
Jan. Jobs: 36,000!!

Montague

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14614
  • The black degelation does not know this nig - V.G.
I bet you still think the health care bill is going to save us money dont you?


Why not?
It's "free," isn't it?

BM OUT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8229
  • Getbig!
Once again libs NEVER EVER mention spending.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Once again libs NEVER EVER mention spending.

Another thing, ITS NOT YOUR FUCKING MONEY! ! ! !  ! ! !

whether it stimulates the govt or economy or not is irrelevent, what about letting a man enjoy the fruits of his labor without the greedy disgusting vermin getting their hands on it first? 

GigantorX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6371
  • GetBig's A-Team is the Light of Truth!
Once again libs NEVER EVER mention spending.

Exactly. The tax cuts caused a short term drop in revenue that was followed by a rise in revenue. A rise that was, I believe, historically high. I will try to find the graph and post it up.

What is never mentioned, as Billy said, was the massive increase in spending, new entitlements and 2 wars.

The cuts didn't grow the deficit because they led to an increase in revenue and an increase in economic activity...it was the absolute reckless spending and govt. growth that grew the deficits.

Talk about missing the point.

dario73

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6467
  • Getbig!
That's Danny for you. Danny the moron.

MM2K

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1398
Jan. Jobs: 36,000!!

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
There are fiscal theories that I disagree with, and that I think are cruel, and that make me upset. But very few actually make me sad. Sen. Mitch McConnell, however, hit my sore spot today. "There's no evidence whatsoever that the Bush tax cuts actually diminished revenue," he told Brian Beutler of TPMDC. "They increased revenue because of the vibrancy of these tax cuts in the economy. So I think what Senator Kyl was expressing was the view of virtually every Republican on that subject." In other words, this is why Republicans don't think tax cuts need to be paid for. They pay for themselves.

Why does this make me sad? Because it's hard to see the country prospering when one of its two major political parties is this economically illiterate. McConnell isn't some backbencher. He's Senate minority leader. And he thinks there's "no evidence whatsoever that the Bush tax cuts actually diminished revenue."

There's an ontological question here about what, exactly, McConnell considers to be "evidence." But how about the Congressional Budget Office's estimations? "The new CBO data show that changes in law enacted since January 2001 increased the deficit by $539 billion in 2005. In the absence of such legislation, the nation would have a surplus this year. Tax cuts account for almost half — 48 percent — of this $539 billion in increased costs." How about the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget? Their budget calculator shows that the tax cuts will cost $3.28 trillion between 2011 and 2018. How about George W. Bush's CEA chair, Greg Mankiw, who used the term "charlatans and cranks" for people who believed that "broad-based income tax cuts would have such large supply-side effects that the tax cuts would raise tax revenue." He continued: "I did not find such a claim credible, based on the available evidence. I never have, and I still don't."

There is some stimulative affect from tax cuts. They increase economic activity somewhat, and that means there's somewhat more taxable revenue for the government to pick up. But not much. Not nearly enough to cancel out the cost of a tax cut. It's important to remember that the Laffer Curve is actually a curve. You can no more drop taxes to 1 percent and make up the difference in revenue than you could increases taxes to 100 percent and sustain enough economic activity to fund the government. You'll recall that the last time we saw budget surpluses was under Clinton -- and higher taxes.

Further, if tax cuts don't need to be paid for because they generate so much taxable economic activity that they pay for themselves, then neither do unemployment checks. After all, the two work very similarly: A tax cut puts more money in your pocket. Unemployment insurance puts more money in an unemployed person's pocket. The difference is that the unemployed person is likelier to spend that money, which will generate more taxable economic activity than if that money is saved. That's why Mark Zandi, an adviser to John McCain's presidential campaign, estimated (pdf) that a dollar spent extending the Bush tax cuts would generate .32 cents of taxable economic activity, while a dollar spent on unemployment benefits would generate $1.61 of taxable economic activity.

In other words, using the theory under which tax cuts pay for themselves, unemployment benefits are a lot likelier to pay for themselves. But John Cornyn, another member of the GOP's Senate leadership, hasn't run the numbers. "I think the urgency of deficit-neutral extension of unemployment insurance has increased because of the size of the deficit and the size of the debt," he said. It's enough to make you very, very sad.

Photo credit: By J. Scott Applewhite/Associated Press

By Ezra Klein  |  July 13, 2010; 6:28 PM ET
 


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Ezra Klein?  haha ha you own yourself with that crap.  Ezra Klein?   ha ha  ha ha ha

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
this coming from a moron who would vote for palin. i rest my case :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

GigantorX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6371
  • GetBig's A-Team is the Light of Truth!
You cut taxes and cut spending to keep the books balanced or you increase spending and increase taxes to keep the book balanced.

Neither have ever been done.

And how can you "not pay" for tax cuts, especially if they lead to increased tax collections? Is there a "Tax Cut Tax" that is repealed once taxes are lowered? If the "claim" about tax cuts leading to more taxable revenue isn't true , than why did tax collections increase by a great deal during the Bush Admin. ? Why is there nothing said about that? Or the fact that the budget grew by leaps and bounds, 2 wars were being fought and a new massive entitlement program was created? Why isn't that mentioned? It becomes to obvious about the authors intent when she rambles on about U.E. benefits have a longer lasting affect and more economic impact. Really? U.E. benefits are nothing more than other peoples tax money shifted around to artificially and temporarily sustain demand. They are simply transfer payments. The money used to fund them isn't wealth that has been created, it was simply taken from a productive member and given to an unproductive member. How does that stimulate anything?

No, of course the apocalyptic increases in spending, the 2 wars or the new Medicare entitlement program had nothing to do with "growing the deficit", it was those nasty tax cuts the led to the ballooning deficit even with the increase in revenue". Huh?

To much necessary information is left out of this article for it to be taken seriously.





This article is obvious one sided junk.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Ezra Klein is the same idiot who shilled for ObamaCare based on the CBO numbers, and now has gone silent since the CBO has retracted its previous statements and said obamaCare will add to the deficit. 

Blacken go read this book and educate yourself.  Stop watching the garbage on msnbc that has no bearing in reality or fact. 

 

MM2K

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1398
The point is that historically, revenues as a percentage of GDP stay right around 18-20% no matter what the taxes are. That's because government has no control over how much revenue comes in. People will find ways to avoid paying taxes.
Jan. Jobs: 36,000!!

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
Repubs should just be honest and say we have to cut spending in order to make our tax cuts deficit neutral

i.e. we're going to cut taxes but we're also going to cut governement services

Then we can just have an honest debate about which taxes will cut and which services will be reduced or eliminated to pay for the lost revenue

The only problem with that is it makes it harder to cut taxes on the upper 5% and pay for it with service reductions to the lower 95% (or lower 20%).   

That's pretty much Reagans model


BM OUT

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8229
  • Getbig!
Repubs should just be honest and say we have to cut spending in order to make our tax cuts deficit neutral

i.e. we're going to cut taxes but we're also going to cut governement services

Then we can just have an honest debate about which taxes will cut and which services will be reduced or eliminated to pay for the lost revenue

The only problem with that is it makes it harder to cut taxes on the upper 5% and pay for it with service reductions to the lower 95% (or lower 20%).   

That's pretty much Reagans model



I dont think we need an individual tax cut for anyone.Keep the income taxes where they are,cut payroll taxes for buisiness' in half for a year,cut capitol gains taxes by 50%,then have a 15% across the board cut in ALL government spending for every single program INCLUDING MILITARY and see what happens to the economy.

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Repubs should just be honest and say we have to cut spending in order to make our tax cuts deficit neutral

i.e. we're going to cut taxes but we're also going to cut governement services

Then we can just have an honest debate about which taxes will cut and which services will be reduced or eliminated to pay for the lost revenue

The only problem with that is it makes it harder to cut taxes on the upper 5% and pay for it with service reductions to the lower 95% (or lower 20%).   

That's pretty much Reagans model
LOL and the dems should just be honest and say that their programs are going to lead to more taxes...unlike obama that is unless you still think he hasnt raised taxes or isnt going to even more ;)

Straw Man

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41012
  • one dwells in nirvana
I dont think we need an individual tax cut for anyone.Keep the income taxes where they are,cut payroll taxes for buisiness' in half for a year,cut capitol gains taxes by 50%,then have a 15% across the board cut in ALL government spending for every single program INCLUDING MILITARY and see what happens to the economy.

the biggest capital gain most Americans will ever have is on the sale of their home and there is no tax on the first 250k (for individuals) and 500k for couples.    Dividends are tax @ 15% and the Cap Gains taxes are at close the the lowest point they've been in years.

I do agree that we should cut spending as much as possible and there is definitely redundancy in miliatary spending that can be reduced

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39901
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
the biggest capital gain most Americans will ever have is on the sale of their home and there is no tax on the first 250k (for individuals) and 500k for couples.    Dividends are tax @ 15% and the Cap Gains taxes are at close the the lowest point they've been in years.

I do agree that we should cut spending as much as possible and there is definitely redundancy in miliatary spending that can be reduced

The story the Washington Post ran today was creepy beyond belief.