You can bash the President of the US, but not the IFBB or NPC.

[Impactedman]

No argument there...but the promoters arent looking to LOSE money either, which is why they tend to only support those divisions that have a chance of an ROI

This is really the end of the argument, Tre. If the division can't support the sanction fee, why look at the fee; why not the division.

Wo-MEN's BBing... Bye bye. 

[Diesel495]

Join special ed's site, u get to say everything u want there

Now, how odd is that? You can have a board in which the President can be bashed, but don't bash the heads of the IFBB, and definitely don't bash the top man of the NPC or his son...  And "we" the followers of this "sport" talk about legitimacy, accountability? Well, if the top people view themselves as untouchable--- how can thing truly be legit...
The President of the United States gets dumped on everyday, from every country, yet the people who run this sport and are responsible for the quality control cannot be questioned or criticized--- especially on bbings most read, most critical site... the irony...

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Ron attends contests and supports the organization, officials, etc. I don't. I have the good of bodybuilding at heart and always have had. I don't agree that the men and women should remain untested for banned substances in the professional contests. I support open elections. Perhaps no one should be allowed to hold office for more than 5 years. Bring in new people and undo the business side of bodybuilding. Make this a sport and do the testing and we can get support and respect from the public. Not right away but we will do better than we are now. Bodybuilding is a sham and disgrace the way drugs are used by so many. Ron talks about supporting bodybuilding. That is fine. Why does he allow people like gh15 to post detailed information about drugs that help build muscle size, etc.? I can't see how disseminating drug information is supporting or helping bodybuilding in any way whatsoever.

The way the Pro League is now run resembles a closed shop of insiders. They make and enforce the rules and even appoint the pro athletes rep. Talk about an inside job!

Ron isn't a bodybuilder and is unlikely to ever compete as one. If he did and felt the contests weren't fair he would reconsider his position on the validity of the whole thing.

There is Bob C defending the way the IFBB operates. Well, we don't have to name the top 5 in any contest. That is merely another opinion and what we want is independent, unbiased, experienced, and intelligent opinions of who is the best. Only then will contests have the support of the fans. The bodybuilders don't stray because they will never place high if they do. Examples are Lee Priest and Milos Sarcev.

At the moment we can not replace unsatisfactory or controversial individuals from their positions. Paul Graham holds his position in Australia for life. Ditto for Manion and the others. Look at how long Bob C has had his important position. Well, that is a bit different because no sound musclehead would be silly enough to accept that role.

The NPC and the IFBB is not an elected office, its a business.  

And yes, it does make a difference whether you attend the shows or not because by doing so would actually allow you to know what's going on.  

That being said, you don't attend the show so your opinion automatically doesn't mean shit.  Why would Manion or Graham take any advice or listen to someone who doesn't pay to support the NPC and IFBB?  That goes for anyone around here.

I attend 3-5 NPC shows a years, I've competed in NPC events, I helped sell ticket for friends of mine who were promoting NPC shows.  I've supported the NPC and the IFBB....what have you done lately other than moan and groan. Lets look at the facts

You claim that IFBB shows are fixed yet you admitted that you picked your own judges for your Mr Canada win in 1870
              
You say there's too many drugs in the IFBB yet you were popping Dianabol like tic tacs over your entire bodybuilding career




Fact is Vince Basile is that you're a hypocrite but Ron lets you post here for the same reason he lets gh15 post here....because no one takes either of you seriously.....



Personally, I think that no organization is without reproach and there are always areas of improvement but rather than criticize and hype on things, we should work to improve things in a positive manner.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

From the way Ron writes here it appears he is part of the bodybuilding establishment. He is one of the boys and mates with many of the insiders.

I agree with Ron that too much knocking of others goes on here. Nobody can control it now.

 

[Tony Doherty]

As a promoter you make a business based decision like any other business.

The sanction fee, prize money, venue hire, advertising etc are all associated costs.

For example, this year I added pro figure to my show. I weighed up the sanction fee, the prize money, hotels, flight etc and decided it was good business.

Very simple, no one is forcing anyone to run a show, if you don't like the business then you don't do the show.

As for bashing the system, what can you guys gain with all the wasted energy you put into this.  Try training, find your niche in life and be good at it.

[mass243]

Then why in hell there is such a thing as "202 class" in pro league 
Don't come up to me and claim it actually pours money in promoters pockets...LOL.... it's a joke.

It's like somebody would want to pay 50 bucks for seeing 'semi-athlete' running 100 meters in 11 seconds... That's a good result but  no one wouldn't pay for it as they came to watch WR being broked by Usain Bolt...

202 is charity. Eating real pros prize money.

[Chick]

Then why in hell there is such a thing as "202 class" in pro league 
Don't come up to me and claim it actually pours money in promoters pockets...LOL.... it's a joke.

It's like somebody would want to pay 50 bucks for seeing 'semi-athlete' running 100 meters in 11 seconds... That's a good result but  no one wouldn't pay for it as they came to watch WR being broked by Usain Bolt...

202 is charity. Eating real pros prize money.

Same reasoning that there are weight classes in the UFC or Boxing...and while it might not have the draw of the big boys, it gives opportunity for guys to compete on a equal and level playing field, as well as create opportunities on the business side.

[mass243]

Same reasoning that there are weight classes in the UFC or Boxing...and while it might not have the draw of the big boys, it gives opportunity for guys to compete on a equal and level playing field, as well as create opportunities on the business side.

I kind of understand that point.
But there were no weight classes for ages in pro level in bodybuilding. Look at how all the great 'lighter' guys did well back then; Lee Priest and Shawn Ray come to mind... they didn't need weight classes to be successful - they placed well among heavier and taller guys.

Heck, no one even knows who won "202 showdown" last year but everybody knew back in the day where did Lee Priest place at the Olympia.
I consider myself as somewhat a fan of pro bodybuilding but I can't recall the name of the guy who won 202 showdown, not even speaking about who else competed 

[Tre]

Same reasoning that there are weight classes in the UFC or Boxing...and while it might not have the draw of the big boys, it gives opportunity for guys to compete on a equal and level playing field, as well as create opportunities on the business side.

[Chick]

Still painting myself into a corner, Tre?

[Chick]

I kind of understand that point.
But there were no weight classes for ages in pro level in bodybuilding. Look at how all the great 'lighter' guys did well back then; Lee Priest and Shawn Ray come to mind... they didn't need weight classes to be successful - they placed well among heavier and taller guys.

Heck, no one even knows who won "202 showdown" last year but everybody knew back in the day where did Lee Priest place at the Olympia.
I consider myself as somewhat a fan of pro bodybuilding but I can't recall the name of the guy who won 202 showdown, not even speaking about who else competed 

And as "somewhat of a fan"...I wouldn't expect you to know who won the 202....

And for every Shawn Ray and Lee Priest, there were 20 guys behind them who didn't do well....using two guys who were clearly exceptions to the rule only illustrates my point.  Remind me...how many Olympias did either of the two gentlemen you mentioned win?

The landscape has also changed in that Lee Haney who was winning all those Olympias in that time, was in the 240's...so being 200-220 wasn't that much of a stretch to be competitive...you now have guys in the 250-275 range....BIG difference.

[Option D]

And as "somewhat of a fan"...I wouldn't expect you to know who won the 202....

And for every Shawn Ray and Lee Priest, there were 20 guys behind them who didn't do well....using two guys who were clearly exceptions to the rule only illustrates my point.  Remind me...how many Olympias did either of the two gentlemen you mentioned win?

The landscape has also changed in that Lee Haney who was winning all those Olympias in that time, was in the 240's...so being 200-220 wasn't that much of a stretch to be competitive...you now have guys in the 250-275 range....BIG difference.

well said chickaroo

For all the flowing lines and tight waists that david henry has.. there is nothing he can do when a mofo like Kai is standing next to him.. the sheer size is too much to ignore

[Devon97]

well said chickaroo

For all the flowing lines and tight waists that david henry has.. there is nothing he can do when a mofo like Kai is standing next to him.. the sheer size is too much to ignore

That's what your mom said.

Sorry , couldn't resist.

[Option D]

That's what your mom said.

Sorry , couldn't resist.

LOL... Well played devon.. well played

[GroinkTropin]

You want Ron to be associated with bodybuilding bashers, when he in fact supports and loves bodybuilding?

If you had a site dedicated to Ferrari's would you allow people to post about how much they despise Ferrari?

Of course you wouldn't.

This does not mean you do not have any valid points, and one could certainly formulate legit arguments about why one should not purchase a Ferrari, but truth be told there are other avenues to say as much.

I support free speech, but I can definitely get behind Ron's decision to crack down on the naysayers. They have no place here.

[Parker]

You want Ron to be associated with bodybuilding bashers, when he in fact supports and loves bodybuilding?

If you had a site dedicated to Ferrari's would you allow people to post about how much they despise Ferrari?

Of course you wouldn't.

This does not mean you do not have any valid points, and one could certainly formulate legit arguments about why one should not purchase a Ferrari, but truth be told there are other avenues to say as much.

I support free speech, but I can definitely get behind Ron's decision to crack down on the naysayers. They
have no place here.

Well, we do bash the "Ferraris", we say they look like shit, Phil is Bloofy, Kai is gay (yet no proof), bash dudes on a the daily, but when it comes to those who run things---who are responsible for the quality of the physiques, the following of the bullshit IFBB handbook (no guts, yeah right), then all of sudden you can't do that...

On Ferrari sites they do bash Ferraris, people can't stand the new FF, when the Enzo came out, they bashed that...in fact, people's reactions are a gauge to where they are going.

If car magazines, enthusiasts, and consumers didn't blast the manufacturers, called for CEO heads on a platter, investigated where their monies were coming from, held them accountable for standards, the the auto industry would be in a shambles. It is the main reason why Ford, GM, and to an extent, Chrysler/Dodge have better reliability and performance than they used to---held ro a higher standard (Japanese and German)...the people who produce the product can and should be criticized...The NPC and the IFBB run the industry (along with the supps company), if they are effig up, and running int othecthe ground, then they should be criticized. If I want to say _____ spends more time devising more ways to get money (ie, cutting the pie), by offering short remedies, and not focusing on the shitty quality of the NPC competitors---thus making the IFBB quality...and if I feel that he has giving Incrediboy money time and effort to focus on comicbooks, and using competitors in them, in a recession, when said time and effort could used for other things, it shows a complete disregard and arrogance...

But, it's like this, the bbingvworld reflects what is prevelant in today's society, Blatant greed, and whoring out of one's self---and a total lack of quality, and losing sight of the bigger picture...