Author Topic: The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election  (Read 1210 times)

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22846
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
« on: June 07, 2011, 11:12:31 AM »
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/06/the-ten-word-question-that-could-cost-obama-the-election/

June 6, 2011, 6:47 pm
The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
By NATE SILVER

The year 1980 was one in which economic forecasting models were in agreement that the economy had slumped too significantly to allow President Jimmy Carter to win re-election. Unemployment was at 7.5 percent and inflation was at 9.7 percent. Per-capita GDP and disposable income growth, adjusted for inflation, had been negative over the course of Mr. Carter’s term. The economy was officially in recession for much of the election year.

But Mr. Carter — despite approval ratings in the 30s or low 40s — was holding his own against Ronald Reagan. Some polls, even well after Labor Day, showed the horse race to be tied or even had Mr. Carter with a slim lead.

Mr. Reagan would win overwhelmingly, however, claiming 44 states (even Massachusetts and New York) while limiting Mr. Carter to just 41 percent of the vote. He surged in the final week of the campaign after he posed the following question to Americans in the presidential debate of October 28, the first and only such event in which he and Mr. Carter participated together:
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
“Are you better off than you were four years ago?” Mr. Reagan asked, dwelling on Mr. Carter’s economic and foreign policy failures. Voters decided that they weren’t, and Mr. Reagan became the 40th president.


This is one of the few stories which satisfies both those who take a more deterministic view toward presidential elections and those who instead see the results as more malleable based on the skills and qualifications of the candidates. For the former group, it is proof positive that the “fundamentals” catch up with a candidate sooner or later; for the latter, it is a testament to Mr. Reagan’s political acumen.

I take the middle view here — the fundamentals matter, but campaigns do, too. Many of these models, besides, are predicting a very close election — while the consensus view of economists is that although another recession is unlikely, the recovery is likely to proceed in fits and starts.

Against this background, it’s worth considering the argument that President Obama and the Republican nominee will have about the state of the economy — and how the focal point of the electorate may change as we move into an election year.

Mr. Obama’s approval ratings are relatively strong given the sour mood of the country. An average of current polls has them at about 50 percent and although they may be somewhat inflated because of the killing of Osama bin Laden, even at their nadir they were not much lower than 45 percent. (Although this could easily change, for the time being Mr. Obama remains the first president since Dwight D. Eisenhower to have never seen his Gallup approval rating drop below 40 percent.)

By contrast, most polls show that a significant majority of the country is dissatisfied with the condition of the country. Since 1974, CNN and Time Magazine have routinely posed a question in their polls that asks respondents to tell them “how well are things going in the country today”. So far this year, an average of 39 percent of respondents have said things are going “very well” or “fairly well”, while an average of 60 percent have said they’re going “pretty badly” or “very badly”. By contrast, Mr. Obama’s approval has averaged 52 percent so far this year in CNN surveys, against 46 percent disapproval.

Usually, CNN’s presidential approval ratings and the “going well” question are in better alignment with one another. In the chart below, I’ve plotted the annual averages for these figures from CNN and Time polls for all years since 1974. (Gallup approval ratings are substituted for CNN/Time data prior to 1993 as I don’t have their approval ratings handy prior to that year.) The first three years of Mr. Obama’s term are represented by the red data points.



All three of Mr. Obama’s numbers are considerably above the regression line formed from the other presidents. That is, his approval ratings are higher than they “should” be based on the mood of the country. In a year like this one, for instance, where just 39 percent of people think things are going at least fairly well in the country, we’d expect the president’s approval rating to be closer to 40 percent than 50 percent.

Some of this is explained by the fact that Mr. Obama is relatively new to the White House. The second chart, below, is based on a regression equation which attempts to predict presidential approval based on CNN’s mood-of-the-country question, plus the number of years that the president has occupied the White House. For each year that he serves, a president’s approval rating declines by roughly 2 points holding the mood of the country constant — that is, voters hold the president to a higher standard the longer that he’s been in office.

Even with this adjustment, however, Mr. Obama’s approval numbers are overperforming. The equation would predict that Mr. Obama have an approval rating averaging 39 percent last year and 44 percent this year. Instead, those numbers in CNN’s polls have been 48 percent and 52 percent, respectively.

So what does this mean? It may mean that voters are in fact cutting Mr. Obama quite a bit of slack for the difficulties he inherited from President George W. Bush. (In another CNN poll conducted last month, just 33 percent of respondents placed more blame on Mr. Obama and the Democrats for the direction of the economy, while 55 percent blamed Mr. Bush and the Republicans.) It may also mean that Mr. Obama is benefiting from strong personal favorability ratings: he’s always scored pretty highly when voters are asked questions like whether he is a “strong and decisive leader”, whether he “cares about people like you”, and whether he is likable.

The important question, though, is whether Mr. Obama can sustain those advantages as we head in to 2012. Here’s one reason to think that he might not: the “going well” number and presidential approval have historically come into much sharper alignment with one another in presidential election years. Here is a comparison of the two figures in election years only:

Note that the correlation has improved from moderately strong to near-perfect. Americans may think of their presidents in fundamentally different ways in election years, taking their president’s performance and their satisfaction with the direction of the country to be one and the same.

After all, if a good case can be made that things are going well in the country, the president can run commercials like Mr. Reagan’s “Morning in America” ads from 1984. But if the case is weak, you can be certain that the president’s opponents will be posing questions to the electorate much like the one that Reagan did in 1980. Note, for example, Tim Pawlenty’s recent video previewing his presidential campaign. Although there’s a lot of glossy biographical detail in the video, the punchline comes about 40 seconds in when Mr. Pawlenty stares at the camera and says “the truth is, our country’s in big trouble.” That is, of course, the fundamental argument that any competent opposition candidate will be making.

*-*

This is not to say Mr. Obama is doomed. He’s still a favorite, in my view, to be re-elected. Unlike Mr. Carter — who was almost as vulnerable on foreign policy as on domestic affairs because of the Iran hostage crisis — this category is a strength for Mr. Obama. At the very minimum, he’ll be able to cite the killing of Osama bin Laden. Depending on how things proceed over the next 18 months, he might also be able to note the winding down of the wars in Iraq, and possibly Afghanistan. While the political turmoil in the Middle East present risks to Mr. Obama, even something like the revolution in Egypt could be adopted as a point in his favor — a sign that the world is changing, and for the better.

In addition, Mr. Carter represents the only case since 1896 when a party ceded control of the White House in the next election after regaining it. Quite often, there there is something gone awry with the country when the White House changes hands (an economic collapse, an unpopular war, a crisis of confidence) and the incoming party is given more of a grace period to reconcile the country’s affairs.

If there is a credible case to be made that the economy is getting better — when coupled with what is likely to be a strong case on foreign policy — then Mr. Obama is likely to be given the benefit of the doubt by voters. But if you instead see the White House spending more of its time blaming Mr. Bush for the state of the economy, that’s a sign that they’re afraid of Mr. Reagan’s question — and may have reached a stage where they’re the underdogs in the race.

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2011, 11:25:18 AM »
I think he is gone.  Again - 2008 was tailor made and set up for him.  He had no record whatsoever, a horrible mccain campaign, huge turnout of blacks and college kids, massive bush fatigue, etc.   

Many people simply are not going to show up for him like last time and if the GOP puts up someone with a somewhat coherent econ message, hes gone. 

Literally almost every single objective measure of economics is drastically worse no matter how you spin it.   UE, inflation, welfare, food stamps, cost of goodsand commodities, health care is worse, transparency is worse, still in wars, etc etc.  Debt and deficit are exploded. 

Why would anyone vote for this guy?  Seriosly - what has he done deserving a second term on any level whatsoever? 

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102387
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2011, 12:12:52 PM »
 if the GOP puts up someone with a somewhat coherent econ message, hes gone. 

that's a Big IF.

George Whorewell

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7362
  • TND
Re: The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2011, 08:17:32 PM »
I think he is gone.  Again - 2008 was tailor made and set up for him.  He had no record whatsoever, a horrible mccain campaign, huge turnout of blacks and college kids, massive bush fatigue, etc.   

Many people simply are not going to show up for him like last time and if the GOP puts up someone with a somewhat coherent econ message, hes gone. 

Literally almost every single objective measure of economics is drastically worse no matter how you spin it.   UE, inflation, welfare, food stamps, cost of goodsand commodities, health care is worse, transparency is worse, still in wars, etc etc.  Debt and deficit are exploded. 

Why would anyone vote for this guy?  Seriosly - what has he done deserving a second term on any level whatsoever? 

He did nothing to deserve a first term and 45% of the country is still stupid enough to support him after he has made things much worse. Never underestimate the stupidity of the American public.

xpac2

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1242
  • Getbig!
Re: The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2011, 08:27:11 PM »
What is this fucking stupidity? Who gives a shit who wins the election it doesn't matter. Politics are around to give you idiots something to talk about to pretend you aren't completely fucking stupid. Yet you dont realize that its the same shit who ever wins? The economy runs itself you fucking retards who cares if republicans or democrats win?

tonymctones

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26520
Re: The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2011, 09:18:43 PM »
yay gimmicks...

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2011, 06:01:58 AM »
Column: Obama's Reagan parallels are falling away
By Jonah Goldberg
Updated 12h 6m ago |

5.1, 9.3, 8.1, 8.5, 8, 7.1 and 3.9.


While that might sound like a controversial series of Olympic curling scores, these numbers in fact add up to a grave problem for Barack Obama.

USA TODAY OPINION

________________________ ________________________ _





They are the quarterly percentage gains in gross domestic product starting in 1983 through to Election Day 1984. And they aren't the only significant numbers. In 1984, real income for individuals grew by more than 6% and inflation plummeted. The unemployment rate in November 1984 was still 7.2% — relatively high — but it had dropped from 10.8% in December 1982, and it was clear the momentum was for even lower unemployment. "Staying the course" with Ronald Reagan made sense to most people, which is why he won re-election in a 49-state landslide.

Sadly for Obama — but far worse for the country — that kind of growth seems like a pipe dream. Last month, the Federal Reserve lowered its forecast for 2011 GDP growth from a range of 3.1% to 3.3%, made just two months earlier, to a much slower 2.7% to 2.9%. And it revised downward its projections for 2012 and 2013 as well.

For Democrats who insist that James Carville's mantra "It's the economy, stupid" is the key to unlocking any election, these numbers couldn't be more sobering. But for the Democrats and liberal pundits who've spent the last two years looking to Reagan for inspiration, the data should have the same sobering effect as being thwacked in the face with a semi-frozen flounder. You don't hear much about it now, but not long ago the White House was taking a lot of comfort in the Reagan example. According to a Timecover story "Why Obama (Hearts) Reagan," the president was fixated with emulating the Gipper. He quizzed historians about him. He took a Reagan biography with him for his Christmas vacation. He even wrote a glowing op-ed about Reagan for this newspaper.

As the November elections approached, White House strategists and liberal writers spun the Reagan precedent as a reason to remain optimistic about Obama's re-election chances. Reagan had lost 26 House seats (and zero in the Senate) in his first midterm elections yet went on to win re-election handily. Liberal writers such as The New Republic's John Judis insisted Obama could limit his losses by emulating Reagan's communications strategy.

Reportedly, Obama's speechwriters even studied Reagan's speeches for tips on how to frame the choice. They concluded, since Reagan blamed Jimmy Carter for the country's problems, Obama should do likewise with Bush. Reagan said Americans faced a choice between "going back" to the old policies and pressing ahead with new ones. Obama parroted the same line: "This is a choice between the policies that led us into the mess, or the policies that are leading out of the mess," Obama said in a campaign appearance for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. "America doesn't go backwards, we go forwards."

Such "Reaganesque" rhetoric didn't save Democrats from a "shellacking" (to borrow Obama's word) at the polls (though in a decidedly mixed blessing the Democrats did hold on to Reid's seat). Obama lost more than twice as many seats in the House (63) as Reagan did and 6 in the Senate.

Tellingly, Obama explained away the electoral rebuke not on his policies but on his inability to communicate the truth to the public. It's funny how the supposedly greatest communicator since Reagan — or Cicero, depending on who you listen to — is always suffering from a communications problem.

And this points to the real reason why the Reagan parallel just doesn't work. As much as it may annoy Obama and his supporters to hear it, the reason why Reagan's rhetoric was effective is that voters believed it was matched to successful policies. Meanwhile many of Obama's top priorities — health care reform, green energy, etc. — have had, at best, a tangential connection to the economic recovery and arguably, as in the case of energy, they've made things worse. Political scientist Brendan Nyhan has rightly pointed out that even Reagan's communications strategy didn't improve media coverage or his standing in public opinion polls. Reagan's popularity recovered with the economic recovery. (The media coverage, however, remained relentlessly hostile until a few years ago.)

In recent weeks, it seems that the White House has discovered that, barring an entirely unforeseen economic boom, the Reagan analogy is a non-starter for them. That spells an ironic challenge for Obama, because it probably means that he will have to run a base election whereby he galvanizes his core supporters and hopes red meat and turnout numbers will save him. In short, it means the president will be emulating George W. Bush's re-election strategy even as he pins all his problems on George W. Bush.


Jonah Goldberg is editor at large of National Review Online and a visiting fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. He is also a member of USA TODAY's Board of Contributors.


________________________ ________________________ __________

Boooom.   Fridays' numbers out and we are most likely to have lost jobs. 

Vince G, CSN MFT

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 25843
  • GETBIG3.COM!
Re: The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2011, 06:08:57 AM »
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/06/the-ten-word-question-that-could-cost-obama-the-election/

June 6, 2011, 6:47 pm
The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
By NATE SILVER

The year 1980 was one in which economic forecasting models were in agreement that the economy had slumped too significantly to allow President Jimmy Carter to win re-election. Unemployment was at 7.5 percent and inflation was at 9.7 percent. Per-capita GDP and disposable income growth, adjusted for inflation, had been negative over the course of Mr. Carter’s term. The economy was officially in recession for much of the election year.

But Mr. Carter — despite approval ratings in the 30s or low 40s — was holding his own against Ronald Reagan. Some polls, even well after Labor Day, showed the horse race to be tied or even had Mr. Carter with a slim lead.

Mr. Reagan would win overwhelmingly, however, claiming 44 states (even Massachusetts and New York) while limiting Mr. Carter to just 41 percent of the vote. He surged in the final week of the campaign after he posed the following question to Americans in the presidential debate of October 28, the first and only such event in which he and Mr. Carter participated together:
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
“Are you better off than you were four years ago?” Mr. Reagan asked, dwelling on Mr. Carter’s economic and foreign policy failures. Voters decided that they weren’t, and Mr. Reagan became the 40th president.


This is one of the few stories which satisfies both those who take a more deterministic view toward presidential elections and those who instead see the results as more malleable based on the skills and qualifications of the candidates. For the former group, it is proof positive that the “fundamentals” catch up with a candidate sooner or later; for the latter, it is a testament to Mr. Reagan’s political acumen.

I take the middle view here — the fundamentals matter, but campaigns do, too. Many of these models, besides, are predicting a very close election — while the consensus view of economists is that although another recession is unlikely, the recovery is likely to proceed in fits and starts.

Against this background, it’s worth considering the argument that President Obama and the Republican nominee will have about the state of the economy — and how the focal point of the electorate may change as we move into an election year.

Mr. Obama’s approval ratings are relatively strong given the sour mood of the country. An average of current polls has them at about 50 percent and although they may be somewhat inflated because of the killing of Osama bin Laden, even at their nadir they were not much lower than 45 percent. (Although this could easily change, for the time being Mr. Obama remains the first president since Dwight D. Eisenhower to have never seen his Gallup approval rating drop below 40 percent.)

By contrast, most polls show that a significant majority of the country is dissatisfied with the condition of the country. Since 1974, CNN and Time Magazine have routinely posed a question in their polls that asks respondents to tell them “how well are things going in the country today”. So far this year, an average of 39 percent of respondents have said things are going “very well” or “fairly well”, while an average of 60 percent have said they’re going “pretty badly” or “very badly”. By contrast, Mr. Obama’s approval has averaged 52 percent so far this year in CNN surveys, against 46 percent disapproval.

Usually, CNN’s presidential approval ratings and the “going well” question are in better alignment with one another. In the chart below, I’ve plotted the annual averages for these figures from CNN and Time polls for all years since 1974. (Gallup approval ratings are substituted for CNN/Time data prior to 1993 as I don’t have their approval ratings handy prior to that year.) The first three years of Mr. Obama’s term are represented by the red data points.



All three of Mr. Obama’s numbers are considerably above the regression line formed from the other presidents. That is, his approval ratings are higher than they “should” be based on the mood of the country. In a year like this one, for instance, where just 39 percent of people think things are going at least fairly well in the country, we’d expect the president’s approval rating to be closer to 40 percent than 50 percent.

Some of this is explained by the fact that Mr. Obama is relatively new to the White House. The second chart, below, is based on a regression equation which attempts to predict presidential approval based on CNN’s mood-of-the-country question, plus the number of years that the president has occupied the White House. For each year that he serves, a president’s approval rating declines by roughly 2 points holding the mood of the country constant — that is, voters hold the president to a higher standard the longer that he’s been in office.

Even with this adjustment, however, Mr. Obama’s approval numbers are overperforming. The equation would predict that Mr. Obama have an approval rating averaging 39 percent last year and 44 percent this year. Instead, those numbers in CNN’s polls have been 48 percent and 52 percent, respectively.

So what does this mean? It may mean that voters are in fact cutting Mr. Obama quite a bit of slack for the difficulties he inherited from President George W. Bush. (In another CNN poll conducted last month, just 33 percent of respondents placed more blame on Mr. Obama and the Democrats for the direction of the economy, while 55 percent blamed Mr. Bush and the Republicans.) It may also mean that Mr. Obama is benefiting from strong personal favorability ratings: he’s always scored pretty highly when voters are asked questions like whether he is a “strong and decisive leader”, whether he “cares about people like you”, and whether he is likable.

The important question, though, is whether Mr. Obama can sustain those advantages as we head in to 2012. Here’s one reason to think that he might not: the “going well” number and presidential approval have historically come into much sharper alignment with one another in presidential election years. Here is a comparison of the two figures in election years only:

Note that the correlation has improved from moderately strong to near-perfect. Americans may think of their presidents in fundamentally different ways in election years, taking their president’s performance and their satisfaction with the direction of the country to be one and the same.

After all, if a good case can be made that things are going well in the country, the president can run commercials like Mr. Reagan’s “Morning in America” ads from 1984. But if the case is weak, you can be certain that the president’s opponents will be posing questions to the electorate much like the one that Reagan did in 1980. Note, for example, Tim Pawlenty’s recent video previewing his presidential campaign. Although there’s a lot of glossy biographical detail in the video, the punchline comes about 40 seconds in when Mr. Pawlenty stares at the camera and says “the truth is, our country’s in big trouble.” That is, of course, the fundamental argument that any competent opposition candidate will be making.

*-*

This is not to say Mr. Obama is doomed. He’s still a favorite, in my view, to be re-elected. Unlike Mr. Carter — who was almost as vulnerable on foreign policy as on domestic affairs because of the Iran hostage crisis — this category is a strength for Mr. Obama. At the very minimum, he’ll be able to cite the killing of Osama bin Laden. Depending on how things proceed over the next 18 months, he might also be able to note the winding down of the wars in Iraq, and possibly Afghanistan. While the political turmoil in the Middle East present risks to Mr. Obama, even something like the revolution in Egypt could be adopted as a point in his favor — a sign that the world is changing, and for the better.

In addition, Mr. Carter represents the only case since 1896 when a party ceded control of the White House in the next election after regaining it. Quite often, there there is something gone awry with the country when the White House changes hands (an economic collapse, an unpopular war, a crisis of confidence) and the incoming party is given more of a grace period to reconcile the country’s affairs.

If there is a credible case to be made that the economy is getting better — when coupled with what is likely to be a strong case on foreign policy — then Mr. Obama is likely to be given the benefit of the doubt by voters. But if you instead see the White House spending more of its time blaming Mr. Bush for the state of the economy, that’s a sign that they’re afraid of Mr. Reagan’s question — and may have reached a stage where they’re the underdogs in the race.



Carter didn't have a billion dollar campaign machine.  When you have that kind of money, you can run enough ads to say otherwise.  Lets not forget that Obama can still blame the previous administration and people will go for it.

If Republicans wish to win the election season, they need to tone down on the rhetoric, turn the steering wheel back from the far left, and engage the public with common and truthful elegance.  If they keep on screaming and calling names at the president, then they are going to lose respect and that doesn't win elections.  Be smooth and decisive, lullaby the voters, don't throw so many rocks.

After all, its easier to catch flies with honey than with vinegar. ;D

A

chadstallion

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2854
Re: The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2011, 06:09:14 AM »
yes.
next question, please?
w

whork25

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1653
  • Getbig!
Re: The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2011, 06:42:28 AM »
The economy is gonna be shit under a republican president to. There are no magic tricks to fix it

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 41759
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: The 10-Word Question That Could Cost Obama the Election
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2011, 06:45:48 AM »
The economy is gonna be shit under a republican president to. There are no magic tricks to fix it


Right - so that is the new excuse from Team Dildo - if Obama couldnt fix anything, no one can.  Got it, especially in light of the fact that Obama has never worked a day in his life in a real job.   ::)