1996 Arnold-Kev, Flex, Dillett, Vince, Ray

[lesaucer]

What happened to Nasser's back/rear delts?  Disappeared in comparison to his hams/gut

holy shit nasser is on so much slin in this video lollllll... i wonder how many ius

[Palpatine Q]

LOL at Bobs valiantly defending Nasser...He really thinks bighead is better than Kevin, Flex or Shawn....HAHAHAAAAA ....you make yourself look silly Bobs....he wasn't that good, no matter how hard you argue the point.

"Lets compare them from 95 to 99...when Nasser was in his prime"...LOL.....how about we take it one step further and only count the shows Nasser won....would that work for you? 

Nobody twisted his arm to get onstage looking like a bag of dog shit that was eaten by a donkey...shit out onto the road and ran over by a golf cart

[bigbobs]

LOL at Bobs valiantly defending Nasser...He really thinks bighead is better than Kevin, Flex or Shawn....HAHAHAAAAA ....you make yourself look silly Bobs....he wasn't that good, no matter how hard you argue the point.

"Lets compare them from 95 to 99...when Nasser was in his prime"...LOL.....how about we take it one step further and only count the shows Nasser won....would that work for you? 

Why not compare bodybuilders when they are amateurs then, or how about before they even start working out? ...if its considered normal to use the last few shows during semi-retirement?  Obviously eveyone uses the peak years when comparing, however in Nasser's case haters like you focus their attention on other years since its hard to debate against him during his peak years.

[NarcissisticDeity]

LOL not going to argue in detail with you on all of your aboe because we have over the years in various threads and there's nothing new to be said, but I'll summarize some of your flaws here:

You selective pick certain statistics and leave out qualititative factors.  For example ignoring the fact that in several of the shows during which the names above lost to Nasser the discrepency in placings was huge (ex. Shawn, Kevin and Flex each had placings well out of the top 5 whereas Nasser did not from 95 to the 99 AC).  

Your stats also give equal weighting to shows at the end of one's career, so if one continues to compete past their prime your stats make them into a worse bodybuilder when in actuality that does not change anything (for example Ronnie can continue competing until he's 60 and never place well but that doesn't take anything away from him).

Also not too long ago you did post that Nasser was more sucessful than Shawn since Shawn only had (two?) pro victories vs. Nasser's 6.  Now in this post you're saying nasser is not in Shawn's league lol - so a more succesful bodybuilder is not in the less succesful bodybuilder's league lol.

So sometimes your measure is # of pro victories, other times it's who beat who how often (while ignoring the gap between placings so a 2nd vs. 3rd placing counts the same as a 3rd vs. 8th).

Also above you're completely ignoring Nasser's 96 Olympia placing over Kevin while still mentioning Nasser's 96 placing against Shawn.  Like I said numerous biases and selective statistics.  

I know you'll send another lengthy meltdown reply (you have the time and energy to do so almost daily for years with Hulkster lol)

LOL not going to argue in detail with you on all of your aboe because we have over the years in various threads and there's nothing new to be said, but I'll summarize some of your flaws here:

You CAN NOT argue with me in detail , you have absolutely nothing to work with. You outright lied and hoped no one would call you on it.

You selective pick certain statistics and leave out qualititative factors.  For example ignoring the fact that in several of the shows during which the names above lost to Nasser the discrepency in placings was huge (ex. Shawn, Kevin and Flex each had placings well out of the top 5 whereas Nasser did not from 95 to the 99 AC).  

You picked certain factors that favored Nasser ( his ' peak years ' ) yet you're gonna say I'm not looking at the entire picture? add hypocrite to liar.

Your stats also give equal weighting to shows at the end of one's career, so if one continues to compete past their prime your stats make them into a worse bodybuilder when in actuality that does not change anything (for example Ronnie can continue competing until he's 60 and never place well but that doesn't take anything away from him).

My ' stats ' are THE stats , competitions over the entire course of their careers , you only wanna count the pluses while ignoring the minuses , not how it works and even counting the pluses you lied so you failed twice

Also not too long ago you did post that Nasser was more sucessful than Shawn since Shawn only had (two?) pro victories vs. Nasser's 6.  Now in this post you're saying nasser is not in Shawn's league lol - so a more succesful bodybuilder is not in the less succesful bodybuilder's league lol.

Absolutely , Nasser was a more successful competitive bodybuilder than Shawn , but when directly compared to him he most of the time came up on the short end if the stick , facts-are-facts , Shawn never tried to enter as many contests as Nasser perhaps if he never put all his eggs in one basket he may have been more successful but it doesn't change the fact he owned Nasser regularly

So sometimes your measure is # of pro victories, other times it's who beat who how often (while ignoring the gap between placings so a 2nd vs. 3rd placing counts the same as a 3rd vs. 8th).

Shawn and Kevin rarely placed below 5th place the discrepancy is straws you're grasping at , a win is a win is a win and Kevin and Shawn won more contests when directly compared to Nasser , facts are facts

Also above you're completely ignoring Nasser's 96 Olympia placing over Kevin while still mentioning Nasser's 96 placing against Shawn.  Like I said numerous biases and selective statistics.  

No I mentioned ' if ' we counted Nasser place in the contest in 1996 , and if we did he would have beaten Kevin and still have lost to Shawn , I don't need either stat because they both still beat Nasser more than he beat them , contrary to your lie.

I know you'll send another lengthy meltdown reply (you have the time and energy to do so almost daily for years with Hulkster lol)

Meltdown? go learn what a meltdown is , because that it was not , just me pointing out once again you lied and Nasser was not and is not in Kevin , Shawn , or Flexes league and Nasser is no where near as good as you fluff him up to be

If you were factual and didn't lie about Nasser beating them more times than they beat him , I wouldn't have ever posted if you noticed I also pointed out the fact that Nasser was better than Dillett , I stick to facts and don't need to bend them or lie to fit my position.

[NarcissisticDeity]

^^^ Another example that just came to mind is how when trying to argue for Mike Francois you conveniently use the statistic of # of wins / number of shows competed in - since he did not compete in many shows before his injury, while ignoring stats such as # of pro wins in total, # of 2nd or 3rd placings, etc.  The latter stats you use if/when it helps support the "athlete" you are biased towards.

Look there are other factors for sure but when all is said and done , when Nasser directly faced Kevin and Shawn , he wasn't as good it's a fact that can't be argued , try as you may , you're reduced to lying and using only Nasser's prime years and you still failed

[NarcissisticDeity]

Why not compare bodybuilders when they are amateurs then, or how about before they even start working out? ...if its considered normal to use the last few shows during semi-retirement?  Obviously eveyone uses the peak years when comparing, however in Nasser's case haters like you focus their attention on other years since its hard to debate against him during his peak years.

It was actually you who said compared to Shawn & Kevin , lets compared them as professionals all vying for the same contest and see who came up the winner , we all know that it wasn't Nasser the majority of the time

and I just used your own criteria and still proved you dead wrong , his prime years 1995-1999 he was DESTROYED by Kevin and he onloy beat Shawn once more than Shawn beat him and that's because Shawn didn't compete that often !! it may have very well been more just based off of that , Bobs you're not working with anything

[che]

Robbery ,Flex looked 10x better than Kevin.

[kiwiol]

Robbery ,Flex looked 10x better than Kevin.

Yep. Kevin wanted to come in as heavy as Dorian from 93 until 97, but never could. Dorian dominated the 95 Olympia so much that Kevin tried playing the size game for years after that, to try and outmuscle Doz and later, Ronnie. All he should've done is come in as sharp as he could. He looked his best in the mid 240s, while Doz looked better in the mid 260s (the arm apart).

So much for genetics not playing a role. Why else couldn't KLo be as big as Ronnie or Dorian, even though he juiced as much as them and trained just as heavy (heavier than Dorian in some lifts, probably)?

[NarcissisticDeity]

Yep. Kevin wanted to come in as heavy as Dorian from 93 until 97, but never could. Dorian dominated the 95 Olympia so much that Kevin tried playing the size game for years after that, to try and outmuscle Doz and later, Ronnie. All he should've done is come in as sharp as he could. He looked his best in the mid 240s, while Doz looked better in the mid 260s (the arm apart).

So much so for genetics not playing a role. Why else couldn't KLo be as big as Ronnie or Dorian, even though he juiced as much as them and trained just as heavy (heavier than Dorian in some lifts, probably)?

Like they always said you got two Kevin's the lighter sharp as fuck one and the heavy soft as fuck one , he couldn't master the combo of size and conditioning. Like Shawn Ray said about Kevin , he was a rock star impersonating a bodybuilder , meaning Kevin was to distracted with other things to be fully focused and highly disciplined  that he needed to be to beat the best of the best , I mean Kevin was less than 100% and still is only behind Ronnie in most pro wins , that says a lot.

[kiwiol]

Like they always said you got two Kevin's the lighter sharp as fuck one and the heavy soft as fuck one , he couldn't master the combo of size and conditioning. Like Shawn Ray said about Kevin , he was a rock star impersonating a bodybuilder , meaning Kevin was to distracted with other things to be fully focused and highly disciplined  that he needed to be to beat the best of the best , I mean Kevin was less than 100% and still is only behind Ronnie in most pro wins , that says a lot.

Agreed. If Kevin & Flex had been focused like Dorian or Ronnie with the latters' work ethic, they'd have won a whole bunch of Sandows between them. Goes to show you can't skate to the very top on your genetics alone, without putting in the work.

[che]

Agreed. If Kevin & Flex had been focused like Dorian or Ronnie with the latters' work ethic, they'd have won a whole bunch of Sandows between them. Goes to show you can't skate to the very top on your genetics alone, without putting in the work.

I disagree, Shawn ,Kevin and Flex still looked better than Ronnie and Dorian but the judge criteria changed back then (size , freakiness  and condition  over shape,symmetry and proportions ) that's why nowadays  we have guys like Branch Warren winning the Arnold  .

[kiwiol]

I disagree, Shawn ,Kevin and Flex still looked better than Ronnie and Dorian but the judge criteria changed back then (size , freakiness  and condition  over shape,symmetry and proportions ) that's why nowadays  we have guys like Branch Warren winning the Arnold  .

Not saying Dorian and Ronnie looked better, just that they almost always came in shape (Dorian more than Ronnie) and stayed focused, as opposed to Kevin and Flex.

Shawn also had a great work ethic, at least as far as you can tell.

[erics]

I disagree, Shawn ,Kevin and Flex still looked better than Ronnie and Dorian but the judge criteria changed back then (size , freakiness  and condition  over shape,symmetry and proportions ) that's why nowadays  we have guys like Branch Warren winning the Arnold  .

I tend to agree with this.

Coleman looked terrible after his first few Olympia wins. By the end, he looked like a bloated mess but the judges seemed to value his shoulder-width (I suppose) and he kept getting the nod.

Still, it's clear that Wheeler and Levrone would have looked better if they had the work ethic that is usually associated with Dorian and Ronnie.

[erics]

Shawn also had a great work ethic, at least as far as you can tell.

Whatever else can be said about him, nobody can make the claim that Shawn Ray destroyed his physique.

That's impressive when in this day and age, most bodybuilders become bloated messes once they become 'professionals.'

[JasonH]

From 95 to 99 (during Nasser's prime years) he actually routinely owned Shawn and Kevin - beat them more times than he lost to them.

Wrong as usual ( think before you type. ) from 1995-1999 when directly competing against Nasser , Kevin beat him 17 times to Nasser's 10 returning the favor

1995 Kevin beat Nasser 5 times
1996 Nasser beat Kevin 6 times
1997 Kevin beat Nasser 7 times and Nasser beat him 2
1998 Kevin beat Nasser 2 times and Nasser beat him 1
1999 Kevin beat Nasser 3 times and Nasser beat him 1

You didn't learn your lesson the last time you tried to compare Kevin to Nasser? Over the course of both their ENTIRE careers directly comparing Nasser to Kevin it gets worse for Nasser


Now Shawn is another story because Shawn rarely ventured out of the Olympia however

1995 Nasser beat Shawn 1 time
1996 Nasser failed the diuretics test however lets entertain he didn't lose his spot he competed and lost to Shawn
1997 Nasser beat Shawn 1 time
1998 Nasser beat Shawn 1 time
1999 Shawn beat Nasser 1 time

So sticking to your limited time-line ( which you only used to try and serve your slanted purposes ) Nasser only beat Shawn one time more than Shawn beat him in his ' prime years '

Now contest placements are the end-be-all in deciding who is the better WHEN THEY ARE DIRECTLY COMPARED TO EACH OTHER this is just another case of you trying to turn Nasser into something more than what he was and some feeble attempt at bending their careers to fit your point of view ( lame )

How many times did Shawn beat Nasser through out their careers when directly compared to each other?

From 1994 to 2001 Shawn faced Nasser 8 times and Shawn beat him 5 of those 8 with Nasser winning just 3 times , so Shawn is a better bodybuilder than Nasser , and not in some ' prime years ' nonsense , as a whole when all things are considered


Now Nasser compared to Dillett , there really is no room to play with , Nasser was just better competitive bodybuilder when directly compared to him , no one can really say other wise , they can harp on aesthetics , structure but facts are facts and the fact is while Nasser was better than Paul , he wasn't in Shawn's , Flex's or Kevin's league no matter how you try and slant it so.

Hahaha - holy shit how long do you spend time researching your answers to this stuff?! 

Not hating - you've got to be one of the best debaters of physiques on here. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Hahaha - holy shit how long do you spend time researching your answers to this stuff?! 

Not hating - you've got to be one of the best debaters of physiques on here. 

About 10 minutes 

[Nirvana]

it's all opinion and speculation.  the judges are routinely retarded, anyone who thinks otherwise is routinely retarded.  just pick a favorite and argue. there are no wrong answers.

[erics]

the judges are routinely retarded...

Anyone who rewards melting sauropods is a retard.

That's the only fact in bodybuilding.

[Earl1972]

i feel this was Mr. Levrone's best win because he completely LevrOWNED an awesome lineup with very high quality physiques

E

[Parker]

I find this awesome and heartbreaking for Flex. Two yrs after breaking his neck, he comes in Second at the Arnold twice in a row. Once to either or decision to Mike Francois, and once to rival Kevin Levrone...I think the 95 version was better, yet could have been sharper, had he brought that to the 96 Arnold, he would have won...

They all looked great, but if you look at them standing, they all had some sort of "thickness-bloat" about them. Was it the GH or the Insulin?

[Meso_z]

bigbobs is Nasser's little bitch by his own will. He actually enjoys it.

sad character.

[Parker]

bigbobs is Nasser's little bitch by his own will. He actually enjoys it.

sad character.

Somebody should notify his wife, so that she can do a intervention.