Author Topic: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare  (Read 6723 times)

whork

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #100 on: July 05, 2012, 06:55:57 AM »
The Republicans do actually have a plan.

That being said, fuck Mitch McConnell and all his RINO-Fake Conservative friends. This guy and the idiots like Lindsey Graham and Lugar need to go. Now.

Agree.

What is the republican plan?

OzmO

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #101 on: July 05, 2012, 08:00:17 AM »
It's one thing for an area to be prodominantly occupied by people of a certain ethnic group and/or race. That says nothing about whether that predominant ethnic group or race would discriminate towards other ethnic groups and/or races. And it is quite another issue for an entire town to discriminate, so that the stranded motorist in your example couldn't get help.

The stranded motorist thing was just an example.  It not about whether they would because of being the predominant race in a certain town or neighborhood its about that the example i gave happened that way and in many other ways leading up to the discrimination laws that have been passed.

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Right. Laws are only passed when there are problems to be addressed. Now who is the one living in a fantasy world?

Mainly you are in a fantasy world right now.  This is what i said:  "If it wasn't a problem to begin with i don't think a law would have been created to counter it."

Where do i say or directly infer in that sentence "laws are ONLY passed when there are problems to be addressed"

I assert now, that you are living in a fantasy world on this forum where you accuse people of saying things they didn't say.   ;) :)  

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If a business wants to charge, say, hispanics, more for certain items, I would simply open up a competing store and sell lower, attracting the hispanic population with better pricing. And that's the point of the argument: as a business owner, it makes no sense to discriminate because money is money - and it will remain legal tender whether the person who handed them to you was white, brown, red, yellow, black, blue, green or even fuchsia.

It makes sense with most business owners of course.  Most business owners are not racist to the point they would not sell to certain races if given the opportunity to do so. But some are, or were anyway.   Also there are many instances where there wouldn't be the availability or prudence to "SIMPLY" open up a competing store.  There would be many reasons for this and too much to just explain here.  The fact that you would just think it would be that "simple" suggests you don't have much experience in business.  Here's a question that may help:  Why is there not a walgreens or McDaonalds in every town in America?  
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That's a profoundly stupid argument. You're saying that we are not advanced enough to do the right thing without laws, but then, in the same sentence you assert that we're somehow advanced enough to recognize this and pass laws that "solve" the problem?

I don't think you understand my point.  We have laws because we don't, as a whole, always choose to do the right thing.  


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Besides if this is really such a big and widespread problem as you suggest, then is it really "solving" a problem to pass a law and to, effectively, throw a cover over the problem and pretend it's solved, when the underlying problem (according to you) is our nature?

I don't know if its a problem at all now because of present day laws.  Pretty sure its not.   I am sure it wasn't a wide spread problem before the laws.  But without the laws, it did occur, with some business refusing to sell to certain races and those people having limited choices.


OzmO

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #102 on: July 05, 2012, 11:02:16 AM »
I guess you didnt catch the pool that was accused of discrimnation in philly a couple years back?  I is local business and became national news.  There is one example for my side.  Do you have any examples or. Is this all just hypothetical scenarios that fit your view o the world?

What were the details?  I vaguely remember the issue about the pool.

Was another pool built right next it? 

OzmO

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #103 on: July 05, 2012, 11:03:20 AM »
What business is going to turn down $$$?  The KKK themselves wouldn't even turn down business based on race.

Are you saying it never happens or never happened?

Soul Crusher

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #104 on: July 05, 2012, 11:04:55 AM »
Are you saying it never happens or never happened?

Who gives a shit?  I turned down a muslim client who was a islamo nut because of it, even though it could have been productive.  ITS CALLED FREEDOM OF CHOICE - something I know most libs are dead set against unless its killing their kids or marrying another dude. 

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #105 on: July 05, 2012, 11:10:01 AM »
Who gives a shit?  I turned down a muslim client who was a islamo nut because of it, even though it could have been productive.  ITS CALLED FREEDOM OF CHOICE - something I know most libs are dead set against unless its killing their kids or marrying another dude. 

SPIN COCK

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #106 on: July 05, 2012, 11:15:23 AM »
SPIN COCK

LOL.   We all make choices every day regardless of laws.    Are you for forced integration in school lunch rooms?  Seems to me most people CHOOSE to stay with their own when given the choice.   


   


OzmO

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #107 on: July 05, 2012, 11:18:02 AM »
LOL.   We all make choices every day regardless of laws.    Are you for forced integration in school lunch rooms?  Seems to me most people CHOOSE to stay with their own when given the choice.   

SPIN COCK   ::)

Are you for Liberals being rounded up and put into prison camps?

Soul Crusher

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #108 on: July 05, 2012, 11:20:55 AM »
SPIN COCK   ::)

Are you for Liberals being rounded up and put into prison camps?

No way - they would garner sympathy.  Its far better to allow libs spew their idiocy in the public square to be roundly laughed at for their naive bs. 

OzmO

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #109 on: July 05, 2012, 11:32:04 AM »
Home > Nation > Philly Pool Accused Of Discrimination To File For Bankruptcy
Philly Pool Accused Of Discrimination To File For Bankruptcy

Nov 16, 2009 5 Comments By NewsOne Staff
 
PHILADELPHIA — A suburban swim club accused of discrimination last summer after revoking the memberships of mostly black and Hispanic children plans to declare bankruptcy, a newspaper reported Saturday.
Valley Swim Club president John Duesler sent an e-mail to club “friends and families” Friday saying the board of directors had voted to file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy this week, The Philadelphia Daily News reported.
RELATED: Black Kids & Parents Reject Invitation To Return To Pool
Duesler wrote in the e-mail that many would blame the bankruptcy on legal proceedings and negative media exposure, the newspaper said. But, he said, “the truth is that the club has struggled to stay out of the red for at least the last decade” and owes more than $100,000 in operational expenses and legal fees, the newspaper reported.
Duesler declined to comment to The Associated Press on Saturday.
Members “are all tired and beaten down and just sickened by how our club has been improperly portrayed,” he said, according to the Daily News. “After speaking to many members, my sense is that mostly everyone wants to move on.”
RELATED: Tyler Perry Sends Kids Discriminated Against By Philly Pool To Disney
The Creative Steps day camp had arranged for the youngsters to swim at the Huntingdon Valley club each Monday during the summer. But during the first visit in June by 56 children — 46 black and 10 Hispanic — two children reported hearing racial comments, and the day camp’s payment was later refunded, according to the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission.
The commission said in a decision in September that it had found probable cause to conclude that the campers were asked not to return because of the “racial animus” expressed by one member and “racially coded comments” by other members.
“I am taken aback right now. It really comes as a surprise,” Creative Steps director Alethea Wright told the AP on Saturday when told about the reported bankruptcy plans.
Brian Mildenberg, an attorney for the children in a lawsuit against the swim club, told the AP the bankruptcy filing puts a temporary stay, or hold, on the suit filed against the club.
“However, the human relations discrimination proceedings, as well as the lawsuits, would be allowed to proceed if the bankruptcy court grants relief,” Mildenberg said.
The Valley Club has maintained that the number of children exceeded the number of lifeguards on duty and that only a few of the children knew how to swim. A club attorney said it had offered to reinstate the campers for the rest of the summer or guarantee them free memberships next year.
The state commission, however, said other large groups that came to the swim club did not elicit a similar reaction, and the club had no black members among 334 paid memberships for the last two years.
Tags: Discrimination > Philadelphia > Racism

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Media stories sparked wave of demonstrations and backlash against pool.  Pool goes bankrupt.  Someone else must have bought their assets at a discount and is running it better.


Thanks.  Was what they were doing against the law?

What if the pool was in a community were there wasn't a large enough black population to make a boycott effective?

OzmO

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #110 on: July 05, 2012, 12:00:11 PM »
Im pretty sure people come in from outside the area to protect their own.  I have no problem with this.  The free organization and protection of individual rights.

Why should they have to? What if its not economically feasible? 

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I dislike when the government institutes laws providing advantage to one group over another.

I strongly agree with this.  I am not a AA supporter.  But believe and have seen first hand racism in the work place.
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Dont know if what they were doing was against the law or not.  

Don't you think that's an important factor in this discussion? 


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All i know is that the consumers didnt appreciatte the way they did business and they caused a change by demonstrating against them and causing media attention about it.  No government necessary.  Freely organized pissed off consumers decided they werent going to take what they felt were unfair business practices.  Said business goes bankrupt.  Another party buys assets at a discount and provides services for these consumers that they enjoy more.  And the new owners who take the risk to buy the assets and provide service are provided money for their services proportionate to the satisfaction of the cutomer

This was in a city full of black people.  Something that needs to remembered here. 

avxo

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #111 on: July 05, 2012, 12:00:36 PM »
The stranded motorist thing was just an example.  It not about whether they would because of being the predominant race in a certain town or neighborhood its about that the example i gave happened that way and in many other ways leading up to the discrimination laws that have been passed.

Let's assume, for a second, that your example is proof that discrimination laws were needed. I assert that a discrimination law wouldn't be of any practical help: if a whole community wouldn't provide help to a stranded motorist on racist grounds a law wouldn't make any difference: they wouldn't provide the assistance, and if the motorist ever made it to another less racist city and tried to hold them accountable under the law, the whole community would lie.

Is this a reason not to pass the law? No, of course not. But it does point out the futility of these kinds of laws.


Mainly you are in a fantasy world right now.  This is what i said:  "If it wasn't a problem to begin with i don't think a law would have been created to counter it."

Where do i say or directly infer in that sentence "laws are ONLY passed when there are problems to be addressed"

You wrote: "if not X then Y". I agree that you can't go from that to "Y, therefore not X" (it's a logical fallacy, called "affirming the consequent") but in this particular case you certainly seemed to suggest that you believe that the fact that these laws were passed is proof that were was a problem to be addressed. If you don't, then on what ground do you think such laws are needed?


I assert now, that you are living in a fantasy world on this forum where you accuse people of saying things they didn't say.   ;) :)

As long as I have 25" pythons in your fantasy world, then I'm good.



It makes sense with most business owners of course.  Most business owners are not racist to the point they would not sell to certain races if given the opportunity to do so. But some are, or were anyway.   Also there are many instances where there wouldn't be the availability or prudence to "SIMPLY" open up a competing store.  There would be many reasons for this and too much to just explain here.  The fact that you would just think it would be that "simple" suggests you don't have much experience in business.  Here's a question that may help:  Why is there not a walgreens or McDaonalds in every town in America?

Whether there is a McDonalds or a Walgreens in every town in the U.S. is irrelevant but I grant you that there aren't. Let's assume that we have Smalltown, U.S.A.: an everyday small town, not unlike the thousands of others, except that all the people living there are racists - let's assume they aren't violent, since that gets us in a whole 'nother discussion - and that one day a new guy moves into town. We'll call him Larry. So Larry happily moves into town and is all excited. He goes to the local grocery store to get some food, but the local grocery store won't sell him food, because the owner doesn't serve "his kind." He then goes to the restaurant, but again, he can't get any service. Soon Larry realizes that everyone else living in town is profoundly racist and that he will not be able to acquire basic items like food, gasoline and the like.

Do you really believe that a law that forces the racist occupants of Smalltown to do business with Larry will help him and that it's in his best interest? I would suggest that rather than legally punishing the racist occupants of Smalltown, we (collectively) are better off to let that shit-hole of a town slowly wither away and fade into the pages of history.


I don't think you understand my point.  We have laws because we don't, as a whole, always choose to do the right thing.

You changed things a bit. So we know what the right thing to do is, but we, individually, don't always do it. That's a bit of a truism, so there's not much to say on that. But there is an important question that's related to this, which you are skipping: is a law the correct approach and the way to solve this problem? More importantly, is it even a problem?


I don't know if its a problem at all now because of present day laws.  Pretty sure its not.   I am sure it wasn't a wide spread problem before the laws.  But without the laws, it did occur, with some business refusing to sell to certain races and those people having limited choices.

To reuse your example: McDonalds isn't in every town in the U.S. and the people that in a town without a McDonalds have limited choices. Should a law be passed mandating that McDonalds operate a store in every town in America to ensure that American consumers have choices?

OzmO

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #112 on: July 05, 2012, 12:23:09 PM »
Let's assume, for a second, that your example is proof that discrimination laws were needed. I assert that a discrimination law wouldn't be of any practical help: if a whole community wouldn't provide help to a stranded motorist on racist grounds a law wouldn't make any difference: they wouldn't provide the assistance, and if the motorist ever made it to another less racist city and tried to hold them accountable under the law, the whole community would lie.


Is this a reason not to pass the law? No, of course not. But it does point out the futility of these kinds of laws.

Nope i think not.  It may work initially in the first few instances but the state or federal government will eventually get the word.

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You wrote: "if not X then Y". I agree that you can't go from that to "Y, therefore not X" (it's a logical fallacy, called "affirming the consequent") but in this particular case you certainly seemed to suggest that you believe that the fact that these laws were passed is proof that were was a problem to be addressed. If you don't, then on what ground do you think such laws are needed?


As long as I have 25" pythons in your fantasy world, then I'm good.
What does affirming the consequent have to do with you putting words in my mouth?  I NEVER said laws are ONLY passed when there are problems to be addressed.  

So ask you to please leave you fantasy world for a minute and recognized i never said that, but instead, address what i did say:  "If it wasn't a problem to begin with i don't think a law would have been created to counter it."  ....keeping in mind I NOT saying:  "If no problems then no laws" removing the possibility of passing laws based on prediction and prevention.

BTW, i have seen a 25+ foot Python up close.  (in the real world, in person,  :))



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Whether there is a McDonalds or a Walgreens in every town in the U.S. is irrelevant but I grant you that there aren't. Let's assume that we have Smalltown, U.S.A.: an everyday small town, not unlike the thousands of others, except that all the people living there are racists - let's assume they aren't violent, since that gets us in a whole 'nother discussion - and that one day a new guy moves into town. We'll call him Larry. So Larry happily moves into town and is all excited. He goes to the local grocery store to get some food, but the local grocery store won't sell him food, because the owner doesn't serve "his kind." He then goes to the restaurant, but again, he can't get any service. Soon Larry realizes that everyone else living in town is profoundly racist and that he will not be able to acquire basic items like food, gasoline and the like.

Do you really believe that a law that forces the racist occupants of Smalltown to do business with Larry will help him and that it's in his best interest? I would suggest that rather than legally punishing the racist occupants of Smalltown, we (collectively) are better off to let that shit-hole of a town slowly wither away and fade into the pages of history.

I do think its in anyone's best interest not to exercise racism in anyway.  There should be consequences for any business who do break those laws.  Further more a healthy economy in any town is better for our country then dead and dying racist ones.  

BTW:   your example here shows the fallacy of your "simple" solution.  ;)

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You changed things a bit. So we know what the right thing to do is, but we, individually, don't always do it. That's a bit of a truism, so there's not much to say on that. But there is an important question that's related to this, which you are skipping: is a law the correct approach and the way to solve this problem? More importantly, is it even a problem?
 for now i believe laws are necessary.  In time as our species evolves many laws will be unnecessary.  It might a few tens of thousands of years though lol

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To reuse your example: McDonalds isn't in every town in the U.S. and the people that in a town without a McDonalds have limited choices. Should a law be passed mandating that McDonalds operate a store in every town in America to ensure that American consumers have choices?

Nope.  

avxo

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #113 on: July 05, 2012, 12:51:37 PM »
I do think its in anyone's best interest not to exercise racism in anyway.  There should be consequences for any business who do break those laws.  Further more a healthy economy in any town is better for our country then dead and dying racist ones.

I agree it's in people's best interest to not exercise racism (or, more generally, discrimination), but I don't think that people who choose exercise racism so should face legal consequences from the state, anymore than I think that people who sell 5000 calorie pizzas should face legal repercussions because consumption of those pies will make one fatter than Scotty was in StarTrek VI.
 

BTW:   your example here shows the fallacy of your "simple" solution.  ;)

Here we go again... I'd argue that it's much simpler (and proper) to allow concerned citizens and communities to address racism directly by economic means instead of passing a cornucopia or laws and regulations.


Nope.

Why not? After all, you wrote: "But without the laws, it did occur, with some business refusing to sell to certain races and those people having limited choices." It's the same: without laws, it does occur, with some businesses refusing to open stores in certain towns, so those towns (and the people) have limited choices.

Or are you saying that limited choices caused by racism are a problem, but limited choices caused by other factors are OK? If so, then it seems that the issue of limited choices isn't your actual concern if this is the case.

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #114 on: July 05, 2012, 01:24:15 PM »
You keep asserting that. I agree that it's currently the law, and since it's the law, banks should comply. But you're not answering the question: why should that be a requirement?


What you think is irrelevant. What matters is what the charter of the Government (the Constitution) states explicitly or requires implicitly. To answer your question: I don't believe that "freedom from discrimination" from third parties is a right; certainly freedom from government discrimination is under the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment, and that is as it should be.


First of all, I think you're somewhat confused about the concept of rights. You have a right to free speech, but that right only means that it's the Government can't control your speech; someone who happens to operate a book publishing business, for example, isn't required to publish your manuscript, and your right to free speech isn't implicated. In general, no right of yours can exist at the expense of others.

Secondly, again you assert that failure to let people & businesses apply whatever criteria they want in the day-to-day business operations will, somehow, affect the health of the market. I think the current economic snafu proves otherwise; to a very large extent, the current mess we're in is because of laws that prevented businesses from making sound fiscal decisions and mandated that they make risky loans.


Perhaps you should have read and copied a bit more: This only happened after a government agency drew up maps where high-risk areas (which overwhelmingly included minority neighborhoods) were colored red. Those maps were then used by banks in evaluating loan requests, and, predictably resulted in banks denying loans to anyone living in the red areas. The problem there wasn't banks being racist. The problem resulted from the Government's involvement.


Yet you still don't think that the bank should be able to ask and consider the religion of the applicant?


W


There's a huge difference: you own a car that you want to operate on the property of someone else (i.e. the Government's road). That someone else can impose rules & regulations on you (i.e. the Government can say "no faster than 65"). I, on the other hand, own the property and I'm not seeking to operate it on the property of someone else.

As for the whole "public rental market" and "obviously public economy" nonsense, it's... well... nonsense. What exactly does "public rental market" mean in this instance? How does it differ from a "private rental market"? And, similarly, what does "public economy" mean in this context? That the public is involved? Great, so? How is it different from a "private economy"?


Actually, some parts may not violate it, but those are details; let's assume, for the sake of argument, that they all do. What interests me is why you think the ECOA should limit this sort of activity, and why another entity (the Government) should be able to "discriminate" based on those very same factors, by offering married couples tax incentives.



It should not be a requirement because it leads to unfair treatment and I don't believe it's a valid criteria.
My position is quite simple. Everyone should have access to lending, housing, etc.. based on equal criteria.   The government has a role and an interest in making sure the markets they create and regulate are fair.   Since I think you've said that you don't think race is a relevent criteria in housing then why do you keep bringing it up

regarding redlning, maybe you should have noticed that the FHA did not actually use the maps to discriminate in their own lending.  That was strictly a decision made by private parties.   I assume you're also aware that many subdivisions in nice areas had CC&RS and other types of documents that had restrictions both on race and religion and this had nothing to do with the government maps

Regarding your statement that banks were mandated to make risky loans, this is simply not true.  Banks made risky loans because they could make money by doing so.  This is especially true of AltA and Subprime loans.   Without collusion by Wall Street and the bond rating agencies those loans could not have existed because there would have been no willing buyers for the paper.  The only reason those loans existed were for a profit motive.  If you want to get into a longer discussion about Fannie/Fredddie or CRA loans I can show you that they were also not the cause of our current financial problem

Regarding Camping , I absolutely don't think their rrligion or anyone's should be a factor in lending.   This one example was not due to their religion.  It was due to them being insane and if they got loans and were honest about the purpose of their loan they could have well been denied for that reason.  There could also be members of his church who paid back their loans with no problem at all so why discriminate solely on the basis of their religion (again their religion and not the purpose of why they want the loan).  BTW - I'm not even aware that they got a bunch of loans.  I thought most just sold all their shit and hit the road preaching the end of the world

Public rental market is THE rental market.  Do you think your imaginary apartment building exists in a vacuum.  It exists on a public street, makes use of public utilities and is sometime in need of public services such as fire and police
The goverment has every right to regulate this market and ensure fairness to all potential tenants and they also have an interest in doing so.  The same example you gave for the private car operating on a public road applies

Final Question for you:  Do you think race, religion, skin color, sex, marital status or age are valid (meaning reliable) criteria for making a credit decision on a loan or for a decision on a rent application.   From reading your comments on the followers of Camping I would guess the answer is "yes" on at least religion but I have a feeling you'll tell  me no

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #115 on: July 05, 2012, 01:31:45 PM »
I agree it's in people's best interest to not exercise racism (or, more generally, discrimination), but I don't think that people who choose exercise racism so should face legal consequences from the state, anymore than I think that people who sell 5000 calorie pizzas should face legal repercussions because consumption of those pies will make one fatter than Scotty was in StarTrek VI.


I agree on the pizza thing but don't see much similarity to the racism thing.  Some people are incapable of not being racist.  Heck, I'd bet there are people who think there still should be slavery.
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Here we go again... I'd argue that it's much simpler (and proper) to allow concerned citizens and communities to address racism directly by economic means instead of passing a cornucopia or laws and regulations.

I 1000% agree, its just not practical in the real world.  (hence: fantasy  :))

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Why not? After all, you wrote: "But without the laws, it did occur, with some business refusing to sell to certain races and those people having limited choices." It's the same: without laws, it does occur, with some businesses refusing to open stores in certain towns, so those towns (and the people) have limited choices.

Or are you saying that limited choices caused by racism are a problem, but limited choices caused by other factors are OK? If so, then it seems that the issue of limited choices isn't your actual concern if this is the case.


I am not really sure what you are getting here, because what you saying doesn't seem to make much sense, unless of course you take sense out of it.  You are talking about 2 different things and trying to put them in the same argument as equally related and relevant to each other and the argument.  Is there a "logical fallacy" for that?  I have a link bookmarked that lists a bunch of them but don't feel like reading it now lol.  

We are talking racism and refusing to serve based on race.  Which isn't related to whether or not it makes good business sense to open up a Micky Dees in a town of 300.  I only brought the Micky Dees thing to begin lead you and show that the "simple solution" of just opening up another store was impractical and wouldn't work if there wasn't a large enough market.  



avxo

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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #116 on: July 05, 2012, 06:36:12 PM »
I agree on the pizza thing but don't see much similarity to the racism thing.  Some people are incapable of not being racist.  Heck, I'd bet there are people who think there still should be slavery.

The laws won't change the people who are incapable of not being racist. At best, they'll continue to be racist, but they'll just hide it. I don't think that hiding such things is something that we, as a society, want.


I 1000% agree, its just not practical in the real world.  (hence: fantasy  :))

No, you assert it's not practical. There's a difference between you asserting that something is impractical and something actually being impractical.


I am not really sure what you are getting here, because what you saying doesn't seem to make much sense, unless of course you take sense out of it.  You are talking about 2 different things and trying to put them in the same argument as equally related and relevant to each other and the argument.  Is there a "logical fallacy" for that?  I have a link bookmarked that lists a bunch of them but don't feel like reading it now lol.

I agree that the example is, perhaps, not the best. However, you brought the issue up by arguing that stores refusing to sell to people because of racial consideration means limited choices for those people, which is a bad thing. Why are limited choices OK in one context but not the other? You may say "well, you can't force a business to open a branch in a city!" and I would agree. But how is that, fundamentally, different from forcing a business that already has a branch open from doing business with people it does not want to do business with?


We are talking racism and refusing to serve based on race.  Which isn't related to whether or not it makes good business sense to open up a Micky Dees in a town of 300.  I only brought the Micky Dees thing to begin lead you and show that the "simple solution" of just opening up another store was impractical and wouldn't work if there wasn't a large enough market.

OK. Let's try another example then. I have a store but I refuse any Homo Sapiens members. Is that OK? I mean, after all, I'm discriminating not just against a race, but against an entire species.



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Re: McConnell can't say how GOP will insure 30m after repealing ObamaCare
« Reply #117 on: July 06, 2012, 08:48:34 AM »
The laws won't change the people who are incapable of not being racist. At best, they'll continue to be racist, but they'll just hide it. I don't think that hiding such things is something that we, as a society, want.

It doesn't matter what people think and believe, as we cant or do not have the right to fully control that, it matters what they do about it.


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No, you assert it's not practical. There's a difference between you asserting that something is impractical and something actually being impractical.
  Ok, well either impractical or not practical, it only works on paper, not in practice.  (doesn't really work on paper either, but that's ok  because its a good idea of what "should" be  :))


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I agree that the example is, perhaps, not the best. However, you brought the issue up by arguing that stores refusing to sell to people because of racial consideration means limited choices for those people, which is a bad thing. Why are limited choices OK in one context but not the other? You may say "well, you can't force a business to open a branch in a city!" and I would agree. But how is that, fundamentally, different from forcing a business that already has a branch open from doing business with people it does not want to do business with?

Because the business on one hand is deciding not to do business based on race while on the other hand the business is choosing not to do business based on profitability in that they would be doing business with all customers.

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OK. Let's try another example then. I have a store but I refuse any Homo Sapiens members. Is that OK? I mean, after all, I'm discriminating not just against a race, but against an entire species.

No problem, good luck with that. : )