Author Topic: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs  (Read 14260 times)

IroNat

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #100 on: February 16, 2019, 12:39:46 PM »
Yeah, but brick and mortar stores could no way survive against Amazon. The only way they would survive is to be exclusively online.

No one wants to go out of their house to shop anymore. These stores have ZERO chance of surviving. As stated, the only way for them to survive is to become an online giant like Amazon, but how feasible is that for every company? Either way, they would have to close down their stores and lay off employees.

At this rate, there is no sense of even opening a business unless its online.

Some recent stores that have filed for bankruptcy in 2018:

Brookstone
Gymboree
Payless
David's Bridal
Sears
Mattress Firm
Ninewest
Claires
Rockport
Bon Ton

and more.

A solid stock portfolio!

Thin Lizzy

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #101 on: February 16, 2019, 02:08:31 PM »
So, basically, in the face of online shopping, these brick and mortar stores are screwed, unless they delve heavily into online ventures to save their company. A

I am accepting of it. I am not in such a field, so it does not affect my occupation in the least. I was more curious than anything.

Certain types, yes. Food establishments and coffee shops haven’t been hurt too bad. I’m not going on Amazon to have a Pizza delivered to my house.

SF1900

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #102 on: February 16, 2019, 02:53:26 PM »
Certain types, yes. Food establishments and coffee shops haven’t been hurt too bad. I’m not going on Amazon to have a Pizza delivered to my house.

Well, of course.

But who knows what Amazon will come up with next!  :o
X

OneMoreRep

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #103 on: February 16, 2019, 03:28:18 PM »
Even at our most dismal worse, unemployment in the US is consistently one of the lowest in the world. What is the alternative? We do not evolve? We do not seek new, more innovative ways to run a society. Would it be better if we didn't have computers and have to get in our cars every day every time we need or want a book or a faucet filter?

I think that as politicians/leaders, you have to look at both sides of the equation a bit. Sure, it's easy to hop on to the "train of progress" and adopt a very Darwinian stance regarding technological evolution, but you have to ask at what cost and to what end?

This isn't the time of horses simply being replaced with cars. Many of these small to medium sized businesses employ a large amount of New York'ers (Americans) that are older than 55yrs of age and they can't just pick up and learn a new craft. Many of them already live paycheck to paycheck. Most of them can't go on unemployment and simply start going to school again in the hopes of attaining a potentially useful degree. Why not? Because if they do, they simply get evicted for not making ends meet. It's not the white collar folk losing jobs that concern me, it's the poor, lower class.

The owners of the businesses will be fine and can easily invest their money into another venture, but it's the displaced workforce that is concerning. They lose jobs, unemployment rises and welfare costs increase equaling higher taxes. Things don't just get better with evolving technology. Over time, we can see great things happen, but it's the initial hit that concerns politicians and what this means to their voter base.

I provide accounting services for many of the same small to medium sized businesses that have been put out of business by companies like Amazon. It's a terrible thing to see when all of those employees need to be laid off. For the young ones <45yrs of age, they survive, but many of the older ones >55yrs of age are seriously fucked. It throws off their already thin margins used to survive in a very expensive city like NY. A smart person will always find ways to evolve and reinvent themselves, but sooner or later, when it's technology knocking at your door and asking for your full time job, you might also sing a different tune.

Do I have the answer? Of course not. But clearly the politicians and economists that run New York City figured this was not a good idea, so maybe, just maybe, they are on to something.

"1"

IroNat

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #104 on: February 16, 2019, 03:44:43 PM »
I think that as politicians/leaders, you have to look at both sides of the equation a bit. Sure, it's easy to hop on to the "train of progress" and adopt a very Darwinian stance regarding technological evolution, but you have to ask at what cost and to what end?

This isn't the time of horses simply being replaced with cars. Many of these small to medium sized businesses employ a large amount of New York'ers (Americans) that are older than 55yrs of age and they can't just pick up and learn a new craft. Many of them already live paycheck to paycheck. Most of them can't go on unemployment and simply start going to school again in the hopes of attaining a potentially useful degree. Why not? Because if they do, they simply get evicted for not making ends meet. It's not the white collar folk losing jobs that concern me, it's the poor, lower class.

The owners of the businesses will be fine and can easily invest their money into another venture, but it's the displaced workforce that is concerning. They lose jobs, unemployment rises and welfare costs increase equaling higher taxes. Things don't just get better with evolving technology. Over time, we can see great things happen, but it's the initial hit that concerns politicians and what this means to their voter base.

I provide accounting services for many of the same small to medium sized businesses that have been put out of business by companies like Amazon. It's a terrible thing to see when all of those employees need to be laid off. For the young ones <45yrs of age, they survive, but many of the older ones >55yrs of age are seriously fucked. It throws off their already thin margins used to survive in a very expensive city like NY. A smart person will always find ways to evolve and reinvent themselves, but sooner or later, when it's technology knocking at your door and asking for your full time job, you might also sing a different tune.

Do I have the answer? Of course not. But clearly the politicians and economists that run New York City figured this was not a good idea, so maybe, just maybe, they are on to something.

"1"

Move to Alabama.

myt1

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #105 on: February 16, 2019, 04:40:17 PM »
A solid stock portfolio!

David's Bridal likely has a lot to do with the fact that less people are getting married, and ones that do are waiting 'til older....likely spending less $

If Mattress Firm's business model is carried out location-wise in other cities like it is here they have no one to blame but themselves.  Opened multiple locations in a town that has been dominated by two furniture stores for decades.  One of those locations only blocks away from the by far most popular of those 2 dominant stores. Who knew that'd fail? ???

TheGrinch

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #106 on: February 16, 2019, 07:58:54 PM »
wow.. this seems fair?  ??? ???

WTF?

Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit for 2018

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-taxes-zero-180337770.html


Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Taxes

https://itep.org/netflix-posted-biggest-ever-profit-in-2018-and-paid-0-in-income-taxes/

pellius

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #107 on: February 17, 2019, 12:51:46 AM »
Jeez..Did anybody read the link? Amazon was going to receive 3 billion in PUBLIC FUNDS...NOT including tax breaks...
That's $48,000 per job created...


And where did the government get those "public funds"? From taxes. Taking money from working people.

It doesn't matter anyway. In any transaction, the buyer wants to pay the least amount and the seller wants to sell for the most he can get. They will always go for the better deal. Amazon can get a better deal elsewhere so they will be fine. If New York feels that they saved money and it's better for their economy not to have a company like Amazon in their State then they should be celebrating as well. I know other States are celebrating that Amazon rejected them and hope they will be picked.

Capitalism at work.

pellius

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #108 on: February 17, 2019, 12:56:35 AM »

I am smarter than this.  Amazon was planning to move there to simply avoid paying taxes.   In addition, people were upset that New York was offering  3 billion dollars in incentives. Now granted Amazon was going to provide school funding and job training but the argument that Amazon was going to generate 27 billion in tax revenue over 10 years is bullshit.  That's because every company knows how to exploit the tax code to pay as little as possible and with Trump's new tax code, its even easier.   Netflix made 845 million dollars in profit and because of the new tax laws, they didn't pay a dime and in fact extracted a 22 million dollar return on their taxes.  Amazon also didn't do any favors in offers facial recognition software to immigrant agents.  


Pellius, Amazon is a bully.   They pretty much ruined a number of small businesses including myself although I'm now using it somewhat to my advantage.   New York was never going to get anything truly from the deal and the job pay guarantee did not match up with what actual Amazon employees made and work..the majority of them working seasonally.   It was all smoke and mirrors.



A bully because they want the best deal they can get? Not very free market of you.

But fair enough. In your mind, New York won. Good for them. Now Amazon will go elsewhere where other States are more than happy to have them.

A true Capitalist free market transaction is always a win-win for both buyer and seller. New York won and Amazon won buy getting a better deal elsewhere.

pellius

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #109 on: February 17, 2019, 12:59:06 AM »
So, basically, in the face of online shopping, these brick and mortar stores are screwed, unless they delve heavily into online ventures to save their company. A

I am accepting of it. I am not in such a field, so it does not affect my occupation in the least. I was more curious than anything.

Unless they offer something better than online shopping then, yes, they are screwed. But whose fault is that?

pellius

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #110 on: February 17, 2019, 01:10:50 AM »
I think that as politicians/leaders, you have to look at both sides of the equation a bit. Sure, it's easy to hop on to the "train of progress" and adopt a very Darwinian stance regarding technological evolution, but you have to ask at what cost and to what end?

This isn't the time of horses simply being replaced with cars. Many of these small to medium sized businesses employ a large amount of New York'ers (Americans) that are older than 55yrs of age and they can't just pick up and learn a new craft. Many of them already live paycheck to paycheck. Most of them can't go on unemployment and simply start going to school again in the hopes of attaining a potentially useful degree. Why not? Because if they do, they simply get evicted for not making ends meet. It's not the white collar folk losing jobs that concern me, it's the poor, lower class.

The owners of the businesses will be fine and can easily invest their money into another venture, but it's the displaced workforce that is concerning. They lose jobs, unemployment rises and welfare costs increase equaling higher taxes. Things don't just get better with evolving technology. Over time, we can see great things happen, but it's the initial hit that concerns politicians and what this means to their voter base.

I provide accounting services for many of the same small to medium sized businesses that have been put out of business by companies like Amazon. It's a terrible thing to see when all of those employees need to be laid off. For the young ones <45yrs of age, they survive, but many of the older ones >55yrs of age are seriously fucked. It throws off their already thin margins used to survive in a very expensive city like NY. A smart person will always find ways to evolve and reinvent themselves, but sooner or later, when it's technology knocking at your door and asking for your full time job, you might also sing a different tune.

Do I have the answer? Of course not. But clearly the politicians and economists that run New York City figured this was not a good idea, so maybe, just maybe, they are on to something.

"1"

Actually, New York approved the deal and the majority was in favor of it. It was Amazon that rejected them due to a small and vocal minority. As was quoted earlier, Amazon figures why bother with all this hassle when there are other States far more accommodating.

As far as displaced workers, that happens and has happened all throughout our history. I am convinced that eventually, maybe not in our lifetime, gasoline powered cars will be replaced by electric cars. Those Teslas are incredible. It's like driving a space ship. And they will only get better and cheaper. Imagine losing that whole automobile, gas, and oil industry?

But what do you want to do? Pass a law that a company cannot expand beyond a certain point? That they can't charge less than a certain price? Industries and occupations fade away because people don't want them. You want to punish Amazon for providing goods and services that people prefer over the brick and mortar stores? You want to punish Walmart for providing goods and services cheaper and better than everybody else. Remember who benefits the most. It's the poorer people. They get more for their money in terms of goods and services. This is a fact because that's where they spend their money.

Like X-factor said, old jobs are lost and new jobs are created.

In a fiery statement on Thursday, Cuomo blamed the shocking decision on socialist democratic darling Ocasio-Cortez and others like her.

Cuomo:
"[A] small group [of] politicians put their own narrow political interests above their community – which poll after poll showed overwhelmingly supported bringing Amazon to Long Island City – the state's economic future and the best interests of the people of this state," Cuomo said publicly. "The New York State Senate has done tremendous damage. They should be held accountable for this lost economic opportunity."
   


pellius

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #111 on: February 17, 2019, 01:18:55 AM »
wow.. this seems fair?  ??? ???

WTF?

Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit for 2018

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-taxes-zero-180337770.html


Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Taxes

https://itep.org/netflix-posted-biggest-ever-profit-in-2018-and-paid-0-in-income-taxes/

I think that's great! I would rather Amazon keep the money that they earn rather than give it to the government. I never understood why people believe that the government can spend money they confiscate from others better than the people or businesses that actually had to earn it. The more money Amazon makes the more jobs they create, the more they can invest in better technology, service, salaries, and products. With the government, it's like a big black hole where money just disappears. In Hawaii, we are building a rail system that nobody really wants and as the project has dragged on it has nearly doubled in the original cost. A 20-mile rail is now going to cost the State, cost the taxpayers, 10 billion dollars! That's half of billion dollars a mile. No way a private company could get away with that without being fired years ago. And remember, Trump wants just 5 billion to protect our country.

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #112 on: February 17, 2019, 02:57:50 AM »
I think that's great! I would rather Amazon keep the money that they earn rather than give it to the government. I never understood why people believe that the government can spend money they confiscate from others better than the people or businesses that actually had to earn it. The more money Amazon makes the more jobs they create, the more they can invest in better technology, service, salaries, and products. With the government, it's like a big black hole where money just disappears. In Hawaii, we are building a rail system that nobody really wants and as the project has dragged on it has nearly doubled in the original cost. A 20-mile rail is now going to cost the State, cost the taxpayers, 10 billion dollars! That's half of billion dollars a mile. No way a private company could get away with that without being fired years ago. And remember, Trump wants just 5 billion to protect our country.
You may as well speak to a brick wall.  In their small liberal minds:     government=good      private business=bad

IroNat

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #113 on: February 17, 2019, 03:20:39 AM »
No biggie for Amazon.  Just business.  NY didn't have to get into the Amazon lottery.  Nobody forced them.  They entered willingly.

There are plenty of cities who want the thousands of high paying, $150,000 white collar jobs and resulting economic benefits (workers' income taxes, sales taxes, real estate taxes paid on their homes, revenue to local small businesses providing services to Amazon employees).

NY spent $millions courting Amazon and then tried to change the rules.  Very foolish.
It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.

There was little out-of-pocket expense for NY except for some construction grant money.  It was all subsidies and performance based benefits.
The vast majority of the $billions were reductions in future tax revenues not existing revenues.

Cuomo understands but the other pols are ignorant or motivated by personal power interests.

Result: NY blows it.

Palumboism

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #114 on: February 17, 2019, 09:05:21 AM »
New York City Mayor de Blasio: Amazon 'took their ball and went home'

By Ben Kamisar

WASHINGTON — New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio Sunday laid the blame for the scuttled deal between Amazon and New York City at the corporate giant's feet, saying the company "took their ball and went home" by pulling out of the deal.

De Blasio, who said he is not ruling out a presidential bid in 2020, defended progressives who supported a pressure campaign against the project by framing the company as exclusively at fault. But he also argued the deal would have been a way for progressives to show they could balance their values with governance as well.

"I have no problem with my fellow progressives critiquing a deal or wanting more from Amazon — I wanted more from Amazon too. The bottom line is, this was an example of an abuse of corporate power. They had an agreement with the people of New York City," he told "Meet the Press."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nyc-mayor-de-blasio-amazon-took-their-ball-went-home-n972571

pellius

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #115 on: February 17, 2019, 03:15:32 PM »
No biggie for Amazon.  Just business.  NY didn't have to get into the Amazon lottery.  Nobody forced them.  They entered willingly.

There are plenty of cities who want the thousands of high paying, $150,000 white collar jobs and resulting economic benefits (workers' income taxes, sales taxes, real estate taxes paid on their homes, revenue to local small businesses providing services to Amazon employees).

NY spent $millions courting Amazon and then tried to change the rules.  Very foolish.
It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.

There was little out-of-pocket expense for NY except for some construction grant money.  It was all subsidies and performance based benefits.
The vast majority of the $billions were reductions in future tax revenues not existing revenues.

Cuomo understands but the other pols are ignorant or motivated by personal power interests.

Result: NY blows it.

Yes, in the end, it's a wash. I people against it think they won a big victory. I'm actually happy for them. Amazon continues to move on and grow and dominate. Liberal cities like New York continue to crumble. The tax-friendly States like Texas continue to grow.

Life goes on.

IRON CROSS

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #116 on: February 17, 2019, 04:02:06 PM »
No statistic of 'Dead Females by Stoning' in Plonkers Paki land  :(

Where is UN , when U need them  >:(

myt1

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #117 on: February 17, 2019, 04:39:04 PM »
Yes, in the end, it's a wash. I people against it think they won a big victory. I'm actually happy for them. Amazon continues to move on and grow and dominate. Liberal cities like New York continue to crumble. The tax-friendly States like Texas continue to grow.

Life goes on.

The only problem is it's a lot of people coming from blue state cali from what I've read.  If they're leaving because of all the crazy left views, and a more conservative life, better family environment, better community, etc all should be good in TX

If they're die hard leftists that are just sick of being taxed and don't realized voting dem is what got them there, then Red TX might have a real problem.  Might want to consider a border on the west of TX too.

Palumboism

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #118 on: February 17, 2019, 09:32:53 PM »
De Blasio says Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez didn’t understand Amazon deal

By Bruce Golding

Mayor Bill de Blasio said Sunday that US Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was wrong to have claimed the collapse of the Amazon deal would free up $3 billion to fix the city’s subways and hire more teachers.

During an appearance on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” de Blasio agreed when host Chuck Todd said that the tax breaks offered to Amazon weren’t “money you had over here. And it was going over there.”

“Correct,” de Blasio said.

He added: “And that $3 billion that would go back in tax incentives was only after we were getting the jobs and getting the revenue.”

To further drive home the point, Todd said, “There’s not $3 billion in money —”

“There’s no money — right,”
de Blasio said.

The exchange came after Todd suggested there was a “factual divide” that kept Ocasio-Cortez (D-The Bronx) from understanding “how this deal worked.”

He also played a video clip that showed her reacting on Thursday to Amazon’s cancellation of plans to build an office complex in Long Island City.

“If we were willing to give away $3 billion for this deal, we could invest those $3 billion in our district ourselves, if we wanted to. We could hire out more teachers. We can fix our subways. We can put a lot of people to work for that money, if we wanted to,” Ocasio-Cortez said at the time.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/17/de-blasio-says-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-didnt-understand-amazon-deal/



For AOC and anyone still confused about how this deal would work, there's not $3 billion in money.  :D


Palumboism

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #119 on: February 17, 2019, 09:36:06 PM »
Full de Blasio: ‘Amazon Just Took Their Ball And Went Home’ | Meet The Press | NBC News


[ Invalid YouTube link ]

G_Thang

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #120 on: February 17, 2019, 11:08:47 PM »

IroNat

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #121 on: February 18, 2019, 03:37:11 AM »
De Blasio says Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez didn’t understand Amazon deal

By Bruce Golding

Mayor Bill de Blasio said Sunday that US Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was wrong to have claimed the collapse of the Amazon deal would free up $3 billion to fix the city’s subways and hire more teachers.

During an appearance on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” de Blasio agreed when host Chuck Todd said that the tax breaks offered to Amazon weren’t “money you had over here. And it was going over there.”

“Correct,” de Blasio said.

He added: “And that $3 billion that would go back in tax incentives was only after we were getting the jobs and getting the revenue.”

To further drive home the point, Todd said, “There’s not $3 billion in money —”

“There’s no money — right,”
de Blasio said.

The exchange came after Todd suggested there was a “factual divide” that kept Ocasio-Cortez (D-The Bronx) from understanding “how this deal worked.”

He also played a video clip that showed her reacting on Thursday to Amazon’s cancellation of plans to build an office complex in Long Island City.

“If we were willing to give away $3 billion for this deal, we could invest those $3 billion in our district ourselves, if we wanted to. We could hire out more teachers. We can fix our subways. We can put a lot of people to work for that money, if we wanted to,” Ocasio-Cortez said at the time.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/17/de-blasio-says-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-didnt-understand-amazon-deal/



For AOC and anyone still confused about how this deal would work, there's not $3 billion in money.  :D



Home run, P-bo.

You are truly a worthy Getbigger.

myt1

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #122 on: February 18, 2019, 03:14:46 PM »
I know many don't read my long-ass posts, cuz it takes me a while to get all my points in.  This article was just posted today https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/amazon-strikes-blow-logistics-industry-141700863.html

So read the bolded below if you want, but in short Amazon will decimate modern logistics, and will build airports, as well as consolidate/sell everything, and build around those airports in 10-15 years.  Book it! ;)


What I don't understand...especially after reading yours' and others' posts in the property tax thread last night, is why Amazon is even bothering with these "trendy" massive cities?  The argument that the talent pool is higher there is shit.  People need jobs whether they're high-paying or average.  People from those areas will move to wherever the fuck Amazon decides to build.  Amazon would save a shitload of money on operational and property costs while still offering the $150K they were planning for these high paying jobs for NYers in some currently rural area.  

People would be applying left and right.  In fact, more people would apply, because there are a ton of techies in the Silicon Prairie that would never consider moving to a place like NY.  People from NY applying, might dislike the idea of moving to the midwest, but once they got there and realized that $150K/yr salary could buy a mini-mansion vs. an average apartment/home as well as it "spending better"; they'd be quite happy.

When Amazon's deal with USPS was announced years ago on top of contracts with all the other couriers, I told my dad who was in distribution; "just wait, in the near future Amazon will move toward eliminating them all by being their own logistics provider".  It's been in motion for at least 3 years now.  They have their own planes, trucks, delivery vehicles and vans, and now added a ton of delivery drivers.  They massed mailed post cards for delivery driver positions last year in different parts of the midwest.

My prediction now is that Amazon will buy up enormous amounts of land in a somewhat remote area of Cali(only because of seaports), Nevada, the midwest, texas, great lakes area, and Florida.  Then, someday in the next 10-15 yrs, they will build all their own airports while building huge warehouse/fulfillment/distribution centers near them, and then close all the others.  They'll sell all all the land/buildings they currently own at a profit, save a ton on property and corporate taxes, and also increased profits from lower employee salaries vs. NY, over-populated parts of Cali, and WA.  Book it!

If GB, and any of us are around you can quote this then, and I'll either look like mytradamus, or a mytdumass.

Dokey111

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Re: Nice Job NY you just killed off 25k high paying jobs
« Reply #123 on: February 18, 2019, 03:21:32 PM »
I know many don't read my long-ass posts, cuz it takes me a while to get all my points in.  This article was just posted today https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/amazon-strikes-blow-logistics-industry-141700863.html

So read the bolded below if you want, but in short Amazon will decimate modern logistics, and will build airports, as well as consolidate/sell everything, and build around those airports in 10-15 years.  Book it! ;)



most everything that you buy will come through Amazon.  Amazing really.  They are like what Sears was back at the turn of the 20th century or whenever.  Didn't Bezos himself say that one day Amazon would meet the same fate?