The US and Britain Have a Treaty with Ukraine

[headhuntersix]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570335/Former-British-Ambassador-Moscow-warns-Russia-invaded-Ukraine-difficult-avoid-going-war.html

There's your link above:   

The U.S. and Britain have both made crisis phone calls to President Putin to urge him not to intervene in Ukraine's Crimea, with the White House warning him it would be a 'grave mistake'.
NATO also asked Russia not to take action that could escalate tension. However Moscow responded by telling the organization to 'refrain' from provocative statements on Ukraine and respect its 'non-bloc' status.

Sir Tony Brenton, who served as British Ambassador from 2004 to 2008, said that war could be an option 'if we do conclude the [Budapest] Memorandum is legally binding.'
 It promises to protect Ukraine's borders, in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

Today Kiev has demanded the agreement is activated after insisting their borders had been violated.

In response Mr Brenton said in a BBC radio interview: 'If indeed this is a Russian invasion of Crimea and if we do conclude the [Budapest] Memorandum is legally binding then it's very difficult to avoid the conclusion that we're going to go to war with Russia'.
 Ukraine accused Russia of a 'military invasion and occupation', saying Russian troops have taken up positions around a coast guard base and two airports on its strategic Crimea peninsula.

[headhuntersix]

As usual Obama went to fundraiser thing and made some half-assed pansy statement about the invasion...calling it an uncontested troop arrival or some such thing. Obama as  usual, does not understand treaty obligations. If this treaty is binding as does nothing....not even recall our ambassador, send a ship or two to the Black Sea...something other then some UN letter...it will create more of this in the future. Putin already thinks Obama is weak and incompetent...this should remove all doubt.

[alabama ftw]

As usual Obama went to fundraiser thing and made some half-assed pansy statement about the invasion...calling it an uncontested troop arrival or some such thing. Obama as  usual, does not understand treaty obligations. If this treaty is binding as does nothing....not even recall our ambassador, send a ship or two to the Black Sea...something other then some UN letter...it will create more of this in the future. Putin already thinks Obama is weak and incompetent...this should remove all doubt.

Should he start ww3 over Ukraine? You are fucking insane. Why do you think Putin is so afraid to lose Ukraine to the West?

You can't comprehend how dominant USA is in every single field when it comes military power. Putin is afraid to lose Ukraine to the EU, which equals a USA militarybase next to Russia.

[headhuntersix]

Oh I can comprehend...might be the 23 years I've spent in uniform. Your statement is so uninformed I can't help but laugh. The Russians are doubling their military spending, they're looking to expand basing rights to include Latin America. Putin knows he can do whatever he wants in The Middle East and in Syria. I guess you missed the whole cold war and how posturing and small proxy wars kept the nutbags from doing something stupid. Well Barry like obamaphones and free handouts instead of carriers and a strong military so based purely on the last 2000 years of history..nothing else...just history, I'd say this will all bite us in the ass. But you keep sucking obamacock. We don't need to go to war to send a message. I know regardless of what happens it won't be you there doing anything about it.

[240 is Back]

should the US put any boots on the ground in Ukraine?

[alabama ftw]

Oh I can comprehend...might be the 23 years I've spent in uniform. Your statement is so uninformed I can't help but laugh. The Russians are doubling their military spending, they're looking to expand basing rights to include Latin America. Putin knows he can do whatever he wants in The Middle East and in Syria. I guess you missed the whole cold war and how posturing and small proxy wars kept the nutbags from doing something stupid. Well Barry like obamaphones and free handouts instead of carriers and a strong military so based purely on the last 2000 years of history..nothing else...just history, I'd say this will all bite us in the ass. But you keep sucking obamacock. We don't need to go to war to send a message. I know regardless of what happens it won't be you there doing anything about it.

I dont even like Obama

Even if they double their spending they are not even close to  be anyway near USA. It show show how fucking ignorant you are.



USA and NATO is far more superior in EVERY field wheter you like it or not.

Obama has the biggest military budget in USA history




USA military bases

[Mr.1derful]

should the US put any boots on the ground in Ukraine?

If the U.S gets in a direct conflict, they won’t be able to take on the Russian Army.  They could not win on the ground there, being that distant from their military bases to take on the Russian Army in its own backyard.  If this conflict was to ever happen, it could go nuclear in a hurry.

[Shockwave]

If the U.S gets in a direct conflict, they won’t be able to take on the Russian Army.  They could not win on the ground there, being that distant from their military bases to take on the Russian Army in its own backyard.  If this conflict was to ever happen, it could go nuclear in a hurry.

Not that I really want boots on the ground, but this statement is so far incorrect it's not even funny.... were the only country in HISTORY capable of fighting effectively across the world, and definitley the only country in history capable of winning that war. We've spent the last 100 years perfectly our logistics just FOR those kinds of wars. If we went into a pitched non-nuclear war against a Russia's military, we'd wipe them off the map easily.

I agree with a lot of what you say but the above is flat WRONG.

[Mr.1derful]

Not that I really want boots on the ground, but this statement is so far incorrect it's not even funny.... were the only country in HISTORY capable of fighting effectively across the world, and definitley the only country in history capable of winning that war. We've spent the last 100 years perfectly our logistics just FOR those kinds of wars. If we went into a pitched non-nuclear war against a Russia's military, we'd wipe them off the map easily.

I agree with a lot of what you say but the above is flat WRONG.

WWII was a long time ago, which is the last time the U.S had a check mark in the win column.  Couldn't win in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, etc.  Russia will give the U.S a bloody nose if they step on their playground.  Just ask Napoleon and Hitler.

[Roger Bacon]

Do something about it Obama.... Oh brother 

[Shockwave]

WWII was a long time ago, which is the last time the U.S had a check mark in the win column.  Couldn't win in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, etc.  Russia will give the U.S a bloody nose if they step on their playground.

yeah... no.  But well have to agree to disagree. weve been honing our military tactics and tech for just such a war for almost a century or anything

[Irongrip400]

Who's to stop it from going nuclear? I mean, really, if shit starts going really bad for one side, what's going to stop them from using it as a last ditch effort? I'm not sure if either country could handle "really" losing an all out war, one where the it might not be on foreign soil. I could see something like what happened in Bolshevik Russia in 1917 happening here if we start losing. That is, except the South.

[Mr.1derful]

yeah... no.  But well have to agree to disagree. weve been honing our military tactics and tech for just such a war for almost a century or anything

Hopefully we don't get a chance to find out which one of us is right.

[Shockwave]

Hopefully we don't get a chance to find out which one of us is right.

agree. Imho we have no business interfering anyway... except for that treaty theyre trying to use to bait us into helping them.

by the amount of military and citizens scrambling for passports, it doesn't seem like the gov pushing for our help is very popular with the citizens, so maybe we should but out and let the citizens make their own choices....

[240 is Back]

Does anyone here believe this ukraine mess woudln't have happened under President Romney?  Why or why not?

[Roger Bacon]

Does anyone here believe this ukraine mess woudln't have happened under President Romney?  Why or why not?

It would have happened, but Romney wouldn't come off as a weak little powerless pussy.




















(no 333386)

[Teutonic Knight]

If the U.S gets in a direct conflict, they won’t be able to take on the Russian Army.  They could not win on the ground there, being that distant from their military bases to take on the Russian Army in its own backyard.  If this conflict was to ever happen, it could go nuclear in a hurry.

But, Ukraine is bordering NATO countries 

[headhuntersix]

We don't need to send troops..alot you can do to isolate the Russians economically. However, while any armed confrontation would be difficult...this isn't an insurgency, this would be a heads up conventional war and the Russian military is bad...they really suck. I think Polish troops backed by Nato air could do enough to drive them out. That's just a fact...does not include political will or even necessity. This shit would not be happening if Obama was'nt such a pussy. He skipped his national security meeting on this....tells u enough right there.   

[headhuntersix]

We got a great classified brief from some of the guys who were advising the Georgian military in 08 and where there when the Russian moved in. Any unit that had Western equipment and was trained by NATO kicked the hell out of the Russians before retreating or getting destroyed. The Russians rolled in with like 50K troops. They suck....some of it was embarrassing...much better suited to what they're doing in Chechnya then elsewhere. They took days to destroy major infrastructure targets because the pilots suck. I have no doubt they're roll over the Ukrainians...and I kind of what to see how well or poorly they do.