Big Think: Are steroids really bad for your health?

[WannaBePro]

Steven Kotler talks about his research on medical steroid research articles and findings:

[Bindare_Dundat]

I cringed when he was discussing how it can damage the heart. "It can damage the thingy up there around the ventricle portion of stuff. "

All.I know is.my.blood.lipids take a nose dive toward the end of a cycle. That's not something I'd be willing to ignore.

[liberalismo]

Short answer: YES. Dosage dependent.  Liver failure. Heart disease being most common. Heart attacks and strokes being the most common cause.

[WannaBePro]

Short answer: YES. Dosage dependent.  Liver failure. Heart disease being most common. Heart attacks and strokes being the most common cause.

Now, is that from the steroids themselves or from just being too big for your body and having high blood pressure?
The liver thing I understand if taking tons of orals for an extended period of time. But kidneys and heart I feel like its more related to lifestyle in conjunction with steroids. The heart will grow regardless of whether you're on gear or not as long as you do serious physical training (swimmers, runners, cyclists, all have enlarged hearts).

[liberalismo]

Now, is that from the steroids themselves or from just being too big for your body and having high blood pressure?
The liver thing I understand if taking tons of orals for an extended period of time. But kidneys and heart I feel like its more related to lifestyle in conjunction with steroids. The heart will grow regardless of whether you're on gear or not as long as you do serious physical training (swimmers, runners, cyclists, all have enlarged hearts).

Yes, but we don't see non steroids using bodybuilders dropping dead like flies as we see in IFBB or WWE.

[WannaBePro]

Yes, but we don't see non steroids using bodybuilders dropping dead like flies as we see in IFBB or WWE.

I heard somewhere the most sport-related deaths happen in cycling. Apparently those guys drop like flies, too.

[liberalismo]

I heard somewhere the most sport-related deaths happen in cycling. Apparently those guys drop like flies, too.

I never heard that before.

Also, remember, high testosterone levels cause an invrease in cholesterol, blood pressure and ventricular hypertrophy.

[FREAKgeek]

I heard somewhere the most sport-related deaths happen in cycling. Apparently those guys drop like flies, too.

You can drop dead too from cosmetic surgeries like liposuction but a little oxandrolone is out of the question.

[Van_Bilderass]

I heard somewhere the most sport-related deaths happen in cycling. Apparently those guys drop like flies, too.

I read the opposite. I think I saw a study referenced on ergo-log...

Edit: http://www.ergo-log.com/athletes-live-just-as-long-as-ordinary-people-despite-steroid-use.html

[basil]

In terms of leading a comparitavely healthy lifeatyle but without the drugs?  Absolutely.  Stupid question.  Any pharmaceutical/chemical introduced into the body will have negative impacts to some degree, and even moreso if the product originates from some backalley "factory" in China.  

[phreak]

In terms of leading a comparitavely healthy lifeatyle but without the drugs?  Absolutely.  Stupid question.  Any pharmaceutical/chemical introduced into the body will have negative impacts to some degree, and even moreso if the product originates from some backalley "factory" in China.  

The only relevant question is: do the positives offset the negatives? Too much research is focused on getting people to live longer. Just longer. Quality of life still is rarely considered. Medical science pats itself on the back when octogenarians waste away in retirement homes, and is horrified when someone suggests they want to live a vibrant, energetic life but die at 70. Fuck LONG life, give me GOOD life.

[basil]

The only relevant question is: do the positives offset the negatives? Too much research is focused on getting people to live longer. Just longer. Quality of life still is rarely considered. Medical science pats itself on the back when octogenarians waste away in retirement homes, and is horrified when someone suggests they want to live a vibrant, energetic life but die at 70. Fuck LONG life, give me GOOD life.

I agree.  I put quality of life ahead of longevity as well.  Ideally, I will carry on in life in some happy-medium state.  I've had 2 grandparents live well into their 90's, but confined to wheel chairs/beds for the last several of those years.  I'd take the active lifestyle with death at 75-80 over a bedridden 90-95 in a heartbeat.

[Coach is Back!]

Steven Kotler talks about his research on medical steroid research articles and findings:

Moderation. I can think of a lot worse that people do on a daily basis other than steroids. As a matter of fact i would assume they're way down on the list of dangerous drugs.

[liberalismo]

All the people using large amounts of anabolics keep dropping dead before age 50. Walking around the pool having a heart attack dying. Walking to the car dying of a heart attack. Brushing your teeth having a heart attack. This isn't normal for healthy men in their 40s and 50s
 ..but we see it every few months in IFBB or WWE.

[WannaBePro]

All the people using large amounts of anabolics keep dropping dead before age 50. Walking around the pool having a heart attack dying. Walking to the car dying of a heart attack. Brushing your teeth having a heart attack. This isn't normal for healthy men in their 40s and 50s
 ..but we see it every few months in IFBB or WWE.

I think the dropping dead in a pool thing was due to misdosed T3. Diuretic overuse is a huge cause of premature death and kidney failure. Its hard for me to blame it all on anabolics just cause the 70s and 80s bodybuilders are mostly alive and well even today, and the only difference between them and the ones dropping dead like flies are rec drugs, diuretic overuse, and shit like DNP, thyroid, etc...
Of course blasting steroids isn't GOOD, and im sure it will cause some premature deaths, but I think the culprits mentioned above play a bigger role than just anabolics.

[HTexan]

Short answer: YES. Dosage dependent.  Liver failure. Heart disease being most common. Heart attacks and strokes being the most common cause.

this.
Plus they make you a bitch, i.e. bitch tits, raisin balls, broken dick.
beta bitch responding  in 3...2...1

[Bevo]

All the people using large amounts of anabolics keep dropping dead before age 50. Walking around the pool having a heart attack dying. Walking to the car dying of a heart attack. Brushing your teeth having a heart attack. This isn't normal for healthy men in their 40s and 50s
 ..but we see it every few months in IFBB or WWE.

Dropping dead in a pool a la Art Atwood

[equipoise]

Yeah they are but using low doses + avoiding certain compounds + being proactive about health parameters can ameliorate many of the dangers. Of course it's best to be all natural but steroids can result in greater quality of life for many people so I think that it's a worth it trade off

[Mayday]

Yes, but we don't see non steroids using bodybuilders dropping dead like flies as we see in IFBB or WWE.

Average public do not factor in the abuse of rec drugs, stimulants, prescription painkillers because those do not have the 'death' factor media has drilled into their minds unlike steroids.

The old school WWE guys abused alcohol and rec drugs. It's well documented in the books the wrestlers have released over the years.

The current WWE wrestlers died from OD'ing on painkillers or have had problems related to painkiller/prescription drug abuse. Look at media releases, the steroids generally stop but the painkillers continue and in massive dosages.

The problem is when athletes/celebrities are famous they dabble in all sorts of crap. So if someone is abusing 10 things, you can't say this 1 particular thing caused the problem. However, what we can say is lots of celebrities who ONLY abuse prescription drugs die and or get massively fucked up therefore those are definitely an issue with/without taking AAS.  In my years exposed to the gym/sport, every single person who had issues all used AAS and prescription drugs. I do not know anybody who has used AAS only that developed issues (including myself).

**Edit - i am not referring to 300lb mass monsters. If you were a normal 200lb size then you remove the cardiac overload/issues. If you are 47 and Rich Piana well then yeah you are gunna have issues but are we talking TRT or steroid abuse?

[Mayday]

I heard somewhere the most sport-related deaths happen in cycling. Apparently those guys drop like flies, too.

That is different.

The deaths were caused during the doping era which was EPO related. They boosted Hematocrit to 60+ levels and the blood became so thick they ate aspirins like M&Ms. They needed to set alarms during the night to wake up and take aspirin to prevent a heart attack. The deaths were caused by high H count, causing stroke, blood clots.

There is also massive amphetamine abuse in cycling so that is going to make an impact because it's long term abuse.

The dosages they take for doping in endurance aren't anywhere near BB levels though. We are talking 200mg/wk Deca and if they use test it's 125-250mg/wk for endurance guys because they only need the blood benefit. Whilst cycling has the worst doping reputation it's not high dosages but more that they might take 20 things.

Track guys are a different story, dosages just like you see in the gym pretty much. At the World Track Championships i have seen guys almost ready to step on stage.

[NelsonMuntz]

I never heard that before.

Also, remember, high testosterone levels cause an invrease in cholesterol, blood pressure and ventricular hypertrophy.

alot of things cause high blood pressure including genetics. And you can get an enlarged heart from exercising alot period, you don't need steroids to cause these things which is why they call high bp the silent killer because it creeps up.

trust me I know these things from experience. Not saying steroids don't cause problems, especially at abusive doses but there are worse things which can cause problems including undiagnosed medical issues/allergies etc

I have seen enough health nuts in my 46 years who got alot of diseases that apparently only (insert lifestyle here) are supposed to get

[NelsonMuntz]

Average public do not factor in the abuse of rec drugs, stimulants, prescription painkillers because those do not have the 'death' factor media has drilled into their minds unlike steroids.

The old school WWE guys abused alcohol and rec drugs. It's well documented in the books the wrestlers have released over the years.

The current WWE wrestlers died from OD'ing on painkillers or have had problems related to painkiller/prescription drug abuse. Look at media releases, the steroids generally stop but the painkillers continue and in massive dosages.

The problem is when athletes/celebrities are famous they dabble in all sorts of crap. So if someone is abusing 10 things, you can't say this 1 particular thing caused the problem. However, what we can say is lots of celebrities who ONLY abuse prescription drugs die and or get massively fucked up therefore those are definitely an issue with/without taking AAS.  In my years exposed to the gym/sport, every single person who had issues all used AAS and prescription drugs. I do not know anybody who has used AAS only that developed issues (including myself).

**Edit - i am not referring to 300lb mass monsters. If you were a normal 200lb size then you remove the cardiac overload/issues. If you are 47 and Rich Piana well then yeah you are gunna have issues but are we talking TRT or steroid abuse?

Prince was 112lbs and died of a fentynal OD. He didnt start with that drug in his life, but it was the end result of building up somthing powerful because of tolerances.

my point is use vs abuse

[V Man]

Yes, but we don't see non steroids using bodybuilders dropping dead like flies as we see in IFBB or WWE.

Most WWE wrestlers that drop dead are also known for being addicted to rec drugs and pain killers, which are known to be bad for the heart. I believe most of the damage IFBB pros do to their health is the phase when they are training (and on a competition type cycle) for a competition. Most gym rats (and probably even professional athletes of other sports) that dabble in it would never take most of the drugs and dosages IFBB pros do.