Author Topic: Cutler-2009  (Read 7141 times)

illuminati

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2019, 02:52:47 PM »
Jay looked like absolute dog shit in 2007



Hmmm - Looked Better Than Me & Very Likely You


 ;D

Matt

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2019, 02:59:03 PM »
Hmmm - Looked Better Than Me & Very Likely You


 ;D

Eh?

No, I think most men would rather look like you.  Jay was great, by pro bodybuilding standards...but you could ultimately say the same about Markus Ruhl.  Big gentlemen, for sure - but blocky and not as aesthetic and round as you are/were.

I've never seen a less deserving Mr. Olympia winner than in 2007, if I recall correctly.  If I'm wrong, remind me which one got a bigger gift than Jay did in 2007.

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2019, 03:09:24 PM »
Jay looked like absolute dog shit in 2007



Great post!  Ronnie too.

On MDTV radio, Jay said that after the 2010 Mr. Olympia, he crawled up into a ball, because he was so dehydrated.  He was worried that he would shit out a kidney!

illuminati

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2019, 03:16:00 PM »
Eh?

No, I think most men would rather look like you.  Jay was great, by pro bodybuilding standards...but you could ultimately say the same about Markus Ruhl.  Big gentlemen, for sure - but blocky and not as aesthetic and round as you are/were.

I've never seen a less deserving Mr. Olympia winner than in 2007, if I recall correctly.  If I'm wrong, remind me which one got a bigger gift than Jay did in 2007.

Ha, Thanks Matt for the Compliment.
I doubt many would like to Look like me as I’m 59.

Strange as a competitor I was constantly striving to have Bigger Fuller Muscles
And Be Stronger - And Now As I’ve aged I’m Trying to Push myself To Keep
What I have & Even try to Better it.
Madness complete Madness - Though it’d be the same no matter what sport I was doing. 🤣😂🤣

pellius

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2019, 03:24:52 PM »
and have wasted their best years while accumulating that wealth, instead of being out gaining some life experiences they have been in bed at 9pm everynight staring at the ceiling wondering if they are going to shit out a kidney in the morning..

Poor Jay and Dexter. Imagine how fulfilling their life would have been if they decided on a career as a personal/professional trainer?

How many countries have you visited in your career as a trainer gaining all this life experience?

joswift

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2019, 03:29:05 PM »
Poor Jay and Dexter. Imagine how fulfilling their life would have been if they decided on a career as a personal/professional trainer?

How many countries have you visited in your career as a trainer gaining all this life experience?


The point Im making is that wealth cant give back years wasted living life like a spartan

Sure some people gain wealth and have a great life along the way, just dont think that making money is the end game... you cant take it with you

pellius

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2019, 03:30:15 PM »
pellius,

Whenever I watch the movie "Forgetting Sarah Marshall", I always think about your posts.

I also envision this being how the fight between you and RatherBe240orBust would have gone down had it come to fruition:

[press 6-7 repeatedly for this fight to go on continuously, LOL]



^ Honestly, that's how I envision you laying waste to 240orBust.

You ended up running him off the board, which is funny.  ;D

In an interview with MDTV after his 2010 Mr. Olympia win, he said that after the contest was over, he went home and crawled into a ball, because he was so dehydrated.  So he was obviously REALLY pushing the limits in terms of cutting for that contest, and I assume he did the same thing in 2010, as he was at least 5% sharper in 2009.

You bring up a good question...honestly, I wondered the same thing.  Maybe he just realized that he only had so many good years left, and decided to just push it to the absolute maximum, and took risks even larger than his normal risks.  It's hard to say though...I'm not certain about that, but...it's possible he just did even more of the same stuff.  Just upped an already high dose.  Otherwise, as you said, what more was left for him to take, when he was taking everything and the kitchen sink?  Lol.  Or everything but the kitchen sink.

Great post.  Good points.

Honestly, I would side with what Flex Wheeler said in the wrap-up video for the 2007 Mr. Olympia contest where he said that Jay deserved to place "maybe 5th" that year.  It must be sad being an "Uncrowned Mr. Olympia" like Flex to see someone win the contest who probably did deserve 4th or 5th.

Realistically, at BEST, where did Jay deserve to place in 2007?  Maybe 3rd?  I see no way that he could have beaten Victor Martinez and Dennis Wolf.  I think a good argument could be made for Dexter Jackson beating Jay in 2007, and even a misshapen and injured Ronnie could have possibly kept his 4th position.  Basically, I could see this switch - here are the original 2007 placings:

1st: Jay Cutler.
2nd: Victor Martinez
3rd: Dexter Jackson
4th: Ronnie Coleman
5th: Dennis Wolf

Switched to this:

1st: Victor Martinez
2nd: Dennis Wolf
3rd: Dexter Jackson
4th: Ronnie Coleman
5th: Jay Cutler.

So basically, Dexter Jackson and Ronnie Coleman maintaining their placings, but with Victor winning, and seeing the big switches in positions for Cutler and Wolf.

Or else, what might have been realistic?  How about this?:

1st: Victor Martinez
2nd: Dexter Jackson
3rd: Dennis Wolf
4th: Jay Cutler
5th: Ronnie Coleman

IMO, Victor or Dennis won that contest.  I would probably give it to Victor since I felt he was more complete [better back].  Jay was off in terms of conditioning, and Ronnie was injured, and down in size.  Dexter was his usual excellent shape, so I think 3rd would be fair for him.  Maybe even Dexter being ahead of Wolf [as was the case in actuality], once again, because of completeness of his physique [back - as Dennis Wolf had an undeveloped lower back, compared to the others in the top five].

I think Dexter Jackson was roughly 3rd in 2007, and Ronnie was roughly 4th.  Victor was roughly 2nd...but obviously that makes a world of difference when it would have been his only Mr. Olympia win.  It's not like the difference between placing 7th and 8th, after all!

I would say that everyone was within a place or two from where they deserved with the exception of Jay.  I would not have placed him higher than 4th in 2007.  Flex Wheeler's exact words [as I mentioned above] were, I believe, that Jay was good for "maybe 5th".

I would have had no problems with Jay placing 4th that year.

Oh...and speaking about what he did to achieve that condition...Jay actually said that he made some "last minute adjustments" before the night show.  Uhh...how exactly does a bodybuilder make "last minute adjustments"?  Is it just adding a LASIX tablet or something?  Exactly what else can a bodybuilder do at the last minute to radically change his physique?  I remember Craig Titus once writing in Muscular Development magazine that he made some "last minute adjustments" too.

I never understood that expression.

In any case, I think what happened is that since it was obvious that Jay was given a gift in 2007 - possibly one of the most outrageous placings ever for a Mr. Olympia contest, IMO, that the next year, the judges were particularly harsh on him.  I would even say that Jay improved in 2008, and Dexter looked worse, and yet Dexter won.

Then in 2009, we all saw what happened.

Interestingly, in 2007, Jay had loose skin under his pecs.  Yet in 2009, his chest was as sharp as I had ever seen it.

I'm extremely curious as to how it happened.  I really have no idea.  But hey, it is what it is.

The photo below compares Jay from 2007, 2008, and 2009.  I'm amazed at how such seemingly minor differences make tremendous differences in practice.  I don't think this photo is quite clear enough to show what I meant about his loose skin under his pecs, but that problem was gone in 2009:

You make a good point. He won without controversy in 2006. In 2007 even Jay had to know that he was given a gift. Then he lost in 2008. I think maybe he was beginning to think he was losing credibility as a Mr. Olympia and was thinking about his legacy.

illuminati

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2019, 03:31:58 PM »

The point Im making is that wealth cant give back years wasted living life like a spartan

Sure some people gain wealth and have a great life along the way, just dont think that making money is the end game... you cant take it with you

I kinda of agree with you - Though that advice applies to those who sacrifice their lives
To Earn Money by working & Having No Life - Except for when the Retire if they live that long.

joswift

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2019, 03:34:24 PM »
I kinda of agree with you - Though that advice applies to those who sacrifice their lives
To Earn Money by working & Having No Life - Except for when the Retire if they live that long.
I had a choice in my career to earn 70/80k a year but living at work, 12 hours shifts 6 days a week or 35 hours a week on 35k

I chose the latter, I have had much more time to do the things I want to do..

Bevo

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2019, 03:47:45 PM »
It’s not just Bodybuilders - Same Thing Happens to Many Top Sports People
And “Celebrities” They earn Millions & Spend it all are Broke.

You are talking about real pro athletes that are making millions and spending it as millionaires,  as opposed to bbers who think they made millions and spend like they are millionaires

Flex is a prime example of this

illuminati

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2019, 03:48:32 PM »
I had a choice in my career to earn 70/80k a year but living at work, 12 hours shifts 6 days a week or 35 hours a week on 35k

I chose the latter, I have had much more time to do the things I want to do..

And Enjoyed Your Day To Day Life
I Think you made the right Choice. 👍🏻

pellius

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2019, 03:52:42 PM »

The point Im making is that wealth cant give back years wasted living life like a spartan

Sure some people gain wealth and have a great life along the way, just dont think that making money is the end game... you cant take it with you

What do you mean? It's the American dream to sacrifice the present for success in the future. It was tough for me working seven days a week supporting myself with minimum wage jobs and paying my way through college but I was willing to do it as I was planning for the future. But still, I went to the gym, had friends and went out occasionally.

And it's not like these bodybuilders are miserable staring at the ceiling and never having fun. I can't count the number of people I see in the gym six days a week right after working all day. Just like clockwork. I've known these guys for years and try to get in their heads. One of them whom I see the most is a contractor and does very well financially. He has a family and the whole bit. He works a full day, hits the gym, goes home and has dinner with his family. On Saturdays, he's in the gym at 9 PM and spends the rest of the day doing whatever. Sunday is family day and relaxes with his family.

He just loves the gym. He probably spends just as much time in the gym as a Pro.
Except a Pro doesn't have to work a full time job. The guys that compete only go through the misery of diet and living like a hermit precontest, but that's part of the challenge and appeal. Discipline and sacrifice for potential future reward and learning from defeat -- life experience.

Most people do shit. Just sleepwalking through life. Always striving for comfort and safety, punching in and out, eating whatever, never-ending search for physical
pleasure, just yawning and going through the motions looking for things they want to buy.

joswift

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2019, 03:53:05 PM »
You are talking about real pro athletes that are making millions and spending it as millionaires,  as opposed to bbers who think they made millions and spend like they are millionaires

Flex is a prime example of this

How many bodybuilers make a million from pro bodybuilding?
Maybe 10 in the world

Arnolds succes came after he quit

Most of the top guys spend what they earn, Heath with hundreds of sneakers, a grown man spending all that money on shoes...they all end up broke

joswift

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2019, 03:55:42 PM »
What do you mean? It's the American dream to sacrifice the present for success in the future. It was tough for me working seven days a week supporting myself with minimum wage jobs and paying my way through college but I was willing to do it as I was planning for the future. But still, I went to the gym, had friends and went out occasionally.

And it's not like these bodybuilders are miserable staring at the ceiling and never having fun. I can't count the number of people I see in the gym six days a week right after working all day. Just like clockwork. I've known these guys for years and try to get in their heads. One of them whom I see the most is a contractor and does very well financially. He has a family and the whole bit. He works a full day, hits the gym, goes home and has dinner with his family. On Saturdays, he's in the gym at 9 PM and spends the rest of the day doing whatever. Sunday is family day and relaxes with his family.

He just loves the gym. He probably spends just as much time in the gym as a Pro.
Except a Pro doesn't have to work a full time job. The guys that compete only go through the misery of diet and living like a hermit precontest, but that's part of the challenge and appeal. Discipline and sacrifice for potential future reward and learning from defeat -- life experience.

Most people do shit. Just sleepwalking through life. Always striving for comfort and safety, punching in and out, eating whatever, never-ending search for physical
pleasure, just yawning and going through the motions looking for things they want to buy.

and that my friend is called wasting your years earning money that you are to old to enjoy

Work to live, dont live to work...

pellius

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2019, 04:01:51 PM »
I had a choice in my career to earn 70/80k a year but living at work, 12 hours shifts 6 days a week or 35 hours a week on 35k

I chose the latter, I have had much more time to do the things I want to do..

Of course, there are trade-offs and there are extremes. Since we are talking about bbers, they make that life choice because they want to. If I had the talent I would have loved to devote my life to training and trying to achieve. There was a time when my life revolved around training. First thing in the morning, then off to work, then back to training. On Saturdays, it was gym in the morning, Jiu-Jitsu practice, lunch, Judo practice, dinner. I was training all day Saturday from 8am-5pm. I loved it. I loved the people I trained with from all walks of life.

Yes, I am kind of burnt out now and much more lazy but that's because I don't really have any goals to motivate my training other than health and not being a fatso. But I can handle two days a week training and not get that middle-age pot belly.

I would definitely take a job for less money that I enjoyed than work a high paying job that I was miserable at.

pellius

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2019, 04:11:30 PM »
and that my friend is called wasting your years earning money that you are to old to enjoy

Work to live, dont live to work...

Not like the vast majority working the same job for 30 years hoping their retirement keeps them out of poverty.

But to each his own. That's what made America the greatest country in the world.
People willing to take risks, sacrifice, and achieve to make their lives better for them and their family. And it's not like successful people are too old to enjoy their lives. There's a saying here that "Life begins at 40". That's when you paid all your dues getting educated and busting your butt trying to get ahead and finally you can enjoy the fruits of your labor. Forty ain't old. The alternative is that you don't sacrifice and make anything of yourself and instead of wasting "your prime years" sacrificing for the future you instead wasted your life doing nothing.

Bevo

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2019, 04:17:11 PM »
How many bodybuilers make a million from pro bodybuilding?
Maybe 10 in the world

Arnolds succes came after he quit

Most of the top guys spend what they earn, Heath with hundreds of sneakers, a grown man spending all that money on shoes...they all end up broke

My point is they spend like they are “millionaires....”

Yes, they all end up broke with this lifestyle, most of them anyways

While real pros getting paid millions are spending like millionaires cause they are.....

Matt

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2019, 04:23:42 PM »
You make a good point. He won without controversy in 2006. In 2007 even Jay had to know that he was given a gift. Then he lost in 2008. I think maybe he was beginning to think he was losing credibility as a Mr. Olympia and was thinking about his legacy.


Re: Jay had to know that he was given a gift.  Yes!  His acceptance speech basically alluded to that.  He stated that he had to make some last minute adjustments, which was basically an admission that he looked bad at prejudging.

In 2008, he looked better and Dexter looked worse, yet Dexter got the W, lol.

PS - pellius, are you familiar with former UFC fighter Taylor Wily?  I only ask because he is another Hawaiian guy, and is huge - 6'2" and 420-lb.  He wasn't knocked out in his UFC 1 fight, but they stopped it for some reason...maybe because he lost his tooth.  I guess that was before the UFC refined its rules.  I have heard it was a conspiracy to allow BJJ to dominate that first contest.

joswift

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2019, 04:30:57 PM »
Not like the vast majority working the same job for 30 years hoping their retirement keeps them out of poverty.

But to each his own. That's what made America the greatest country in the world.
People willing to take risks, sacrifice, and achieve to make their lives better for them and their family. And it's not like successful people are too old to enjoy their lives. There's a saying here that "Life begins at 40". That's when you paid all your dues getting educated and busting your butt trying to get ahead and finally you can enjoy the fruits of your labor. Forty ain't old. The alternative is that you don't sacrifice and make anything of yourself and instead of wasting "your prime years" sacrificing for the future you instead wasted your life doing nothing.

Do what you enjoy doing and forget about trying to earn money, the harder you chase money the harder it is to get it, if you like doing what you are doing money will come regardless

And one things for certain, people who like earning money never earn enough...

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2019, 04:37:50 PM »
Phil could have taken some lessons from Jay on being a good human and rep for the "sport".

He is insecure and arrogant, was the worst Mr. O as far as doing anything positive for bodybuilding.

pellius

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2019, 10:26:46 PM »
Re: Jay had to know that he was given a gift.  Yes!  His acceptance speech basically alluded to that.  He stated that he had to make some last minute adjustments, which was basically an admission that he looked bad at prejudging.

In 2008, he looked better and Dexter looked worse, yet Dexter got the W, lol.

PS - pellius, are you familiar with former UFC fighter Taylor Wily?  I only ask because he is another Hawaiian guy, and is huge - 6'2" and 420-lb.  He wasn't knocked out in his UFC 1 fight, but they stopped it for some reason...maybe because he lost his tooth.  I guess that was before the UFC refined its rules.  I have heard it was a conspiracy to allow BJJ to dominate that first contest.

Yes, Taylor is now a regular on Hawaii Five O and doing fine without having to bust up his body.

And you're right, Rorion founded the UFC because he believed it could be a viable sport as it already was in Brasil (Vale Tudo). Two guys fighting it out no rules (Vale Tudo means "anything goes") has a visceral appeal to men. And Rorion knew the state of martial arts in America and knew it was all baloney. All these breaking boards, Katas, and choreographed techniques were useless in a fight. In Brasil, they fought for real. In the streets and in the ring. Remember, he already had an open challenge to anybody -- ANYBODY -- who could beat them in a bare fisted no holds barred fight. You win, you get $10,000 dollars. You lose? Nothing. You go home in shame and maybe think about what you've been wasting your life on doing Kung Fu, Karate, and the most useless of all, Aikido, and the Gracies have another notch on their belt.

One by one all these Black Belts, Red Belts, Masters, Ninja, Foo Man Choos would come in and get their ass handle to them in minutes. It wasn't pretty. Nothing like the movies. Just brutal fist swinging, rolling on the ground, scraps. But they always won -- easily. It got to a point when the challengers had to get through Blue Belts and even then they would lose. Oddly no wrestlers showed up because at the time wrestlers never trained in submissions and strikes and didn't consider themselves fighters which is ironic as they would have given the Gracies much more of a challenge being in better shape and tougher. No college level athlete's training is more brutal than a D-1 wrestler.

So Rorion knew that no traditional martial artist at the time could hold his own even against the least skilled and least experienced and tested Gracie, scrawny Royce. So there wasn't really much "conspiracy" needed to be orchestrated for Royce to shine -- EXCEPT for Ken Shamrock. When Rorion realized Shamrock was a real fighter, Pancrase and Shooto are pretty close to a real fight and Shamrock was a champ, he did everything he could to get him out without appearing biased and obvious. Not only was Shamrock skilled but he was a real conditioned athlete. Royce was not. It was Bruce Lee who once said that you will never find more out of shape "athletes" than in traditional martial arts.

But they studied Shamrock's fights and knew the ankle lock was a favorite and he would always try it. And when someone "pulls guard" the ankle is right there. Few back then were familiar with ankle locks and it was pretty easy to get if you're in the right position. But Royce knew that as soon Shamrock sits back to lock it in he would sit right back up and end up on top of Ken.

pellius

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2019, 11:51:39 PM »
Do what you enjoy doing and forget about trying to earn money, the harder you chase money the harder it is to get it, if you like doing what you are doing money will come regardless

And one things for certain, people who like earning money never earn enough...

You don't think the poor want more money? How about the middle class?

Everybody wants more.

I think you're right that a lot of people like earning money and it's never enough. But that's because that's what they like to do. Start businesses and keep growing keep expanding. But the same goes for a gun collector. Never has enough. Keeps getting new ones. A member here, ergo, who is very well heeled, loves exercise machines. He not only owns one of the best-equipped gyms in the world but has a collection that he has to store in a separate storage area he had built. I think he has about 10 different chest machines alone that sit idle. He donated a bunch to a YMCA in a city that he visits often just so he can use them to train. Bought this whole line of gym equipment shipped in from Germany. Can you imagine the cost of just shipping tons of weight training equipment let alone the cost of the equipment himself? Me, I'd collect cars. But it's his money and as long as he has it he will keep adding to his collection.

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2019, 03:01:13 AM »
How many bodybuilers make a million from pro bodybuilding?
Maybe 10 in the world

Arnolds succes came after he quit

Most of the top guys spend what they earn, Heath with hundreds of sneakers, a grown man spending all that money on shoes...they all end up broke

That depends, lots if you stretch the definition of bodybuilder to 'IG model who has never competed' but sells site membership and cookie cutter coaching plans.

He is insecure and arrogant, was the worst Mr. O as far as doing anything positive for bodybuilding.

Hey now, try and be considerate. Must have been hard competing 9 months pregnant, he has my full kudos. Seriously though, Phil needed the loss to humble him. I wonder if he accepts that he has a very clear issue, or is still in denial about it.  ::) People can say what they like about Shawn (triceps etc) but at least he was not pregnant.

Levrone was right, BB went down the toilet when Ronnie was allowed to continue winning with such a painful gut, funny that the world's most built man could be mistaken for pregnant and ready to give birth.

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Re: Cutler-2009
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2019, 06:52:09 AM »
everyone mentions the same things when talking about what humans have achieved:
- the moon landing
- Google made a quantum chip
- artificial intelligence
- biotech

but Cutler 2009 is up there!  :D