RIP Dr. Ken

[Henda]

Didn’t ken have a darkie adopted son that they claimed was the strongest man who ever lived could squat 600x20 or so?

[BB]

Didn’t ken have a darkie adopted son that they claimed was the strongest man who ever lived could squat 600x20 or so?

Yes, Kevin Tolbert, who is a pretty high level strength coach in American football now. At one point, the claim was #600 x 30 for squats at about #250 - 260. This bothered me, but someone later explained that it was a machine squat, either on a TK Star Leverage Squat or a  Nautilus machine.

This sort of made sense because he was big on the TK Star Squat, the Nautilius Duo Squat/Leg Press, and the Nautilius leverage leg press and promoted them quite a bit. He used to have guys switch between regular squats, the power squat machine, and a leg press variant.

It doesn't help that in some of his writings he doesn't mention when they were going between regular barbell squats and machine work. If you were casually reading the article and not familiar with other things he'd written, it was easy not to catch it. Whether this was by design or just because of the fast conversational style he had, I don't know -

Tolbert -

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TK Star Power Squat -

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Nautilus Duo -

Nautilius Leg Press -

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[illuminati]

Watching the squat clip, it looks to me as if the bar bends very slightly at the top of the movement - not much, but this may have to do more with bar design.

Some bars are intentionally made to flex/bend more or less than others.
I remember at my first gym (which started as a powerlifting gym and retained a lot of its original equipment during my time there) the veteran lifters had a special bar they used SPECIFICALLY for bench pressing. They actually kept the bar locked in a back room when not in use to prevent other general gym members from using it for deadlifting, etc. I was told that certain use could damage the desired tempering of the bar.

Correct there’s a lot of difference between an Eleiko Olympic bar & A Heavy duty Powerlifting Bar.
I’ve got an Eleiko Olympic lifting bar & That’s very springy & I think it’s an old Borg Power Bar
And that doesn’t bend until you got 600 /700 lbs on it.

[Taffin]

Watching the squat clip, it looks to me as if the bar bends very slightly at the top of the movement - not much, but this may have to do more with bar design.

Some bars are intentionally made to flex/bend more or less than others.
I remember at my first gym (which started as a powerlifting gym and retained a lot of its original equipment during my time there) the veteran lifters had a special bar they used SPECIFICALLY for bench pressing. They actually kept the bar locked in a back room when not in use to prevent other general gym members from using it for deadlifting, etc. I was told that certain use could damage the desired tempering of the bar.

Fascinating!   Although I did of course do the whole incremental increase over time thing for bodybuilding purposes, I never got into 'real' lifting like a lot of you guys (was never strong enough  ) so I'm completely ignorant of considerations like this...

Do you know what specific characteristic(s) of that bar made it so desirable/suitable for benching I wonder - was it because it was especially stiff or something..?

Correct there’s a lot of difference between an Eleiko Olympic bar & A Heavy duty Powerlifting Bar.
I’ve got an Eleiko Olympic lifting bar & That’s very springy & I think it’s an old Borg Power Bar
And that doesn’t bend until you got 600 /700 lbs on it.

Again, very interesting.  I'm no metallurgist, but I'd love to understand the difference in materials and/or production processes that influenced the end product so differently - any experts care to explain please?

Illuminati, I know you've competed at a high level - so in your experience does a 'springy' bar perhaps help with explosive 1RM work (or competitions)..?  Or is a 'stiffy' better?  (Sorry for being juvenile  )

[illuminati]

Fascinating!   Although I did of course do the whole incremental increase over time thing for bodybuilding purposes, I never got into 'real' lifting like a lot of you guys (was never strong enough  ) so I'm completely ignorant of considerations like this...

Do you know what specific characteristic(s) of that bar made it so desirable/suitable for benching I wonder - was it because it was especially stiff or something..?



Again, very interesting.  I'm no metallurgist, but I'd love to understand the difference in materials and/or production processes that influenced the end product so differently - any experts care to explain please?

Illuminati, I know you've competed at a high level - so in your experience does a 'springy' bar perhaps help with explosive 1RM work (or competitions)..?  Or is a 'stiffy' better?  (Sorry for being juvenile  )

Hmmm I found with a Eleiko Olympic bar it would go either way when squating
If you got the bar to bounce whip up on the bottom out of the hole squat position
It’d help & if it was on the down part make it more difficult.
The stiffer bar would give more control especially as the weights got heavier.
On the deadlift a Springy bar would help as it would bend up as you pulled & allow you to be in
A Higher stronger start position - That’s why the strongmen tend to use 9ft bars not 7ft ones.

As for the Bench I’ve not heard of a special bench bar - other than the cambered bars
That’s not to say there isn’t a bench bar.

[BB]

Yes, with a whippy Olympic bar, many of the best lifters can time and feel the whip, and get a few extra pounds out of it during certain stages of the lift.

With a powerlifting bar, the movements are slower and simpler, so stiffness wins out. there's less/no whip, so you're less likely to be thrown out of the groove.

The last bar you may find is a Deadlift bar used in some powerlifting feds. The longer length (7 1/2') and thinner shaft cause more deflection under load (they bend more ). This can shave a tiny bit of distance off the lift at the start, and many people seem to enjoy more pulling strength with a thinner bar (Pushing tends to favor a slightly thicker bar).

Edit - here's a good look a top OL lifter using bar whip (at the dip and catch, and the jerk) -

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[Taffin]

Hmmm I found with a Eleiko Olympic bar it would go either way when squating
If you got the bar to bounce whip up on the bottom out of the hole squat position
It’d help & if it was on the down part make it more difficult.
The stiffer bar would give more control especially as the weights got heavier.
On the deadlift a Springy bar would help as it would bend up as you pulled & allow you to be in
A Higher stronger start position - That’s why the strongmen tend to use 9ft bars not 7ft ones.

As for the Bench I’ve not heard of a special bench bar - other than the cambered bars
That’s not to say there isn’t a bench bar.

I see - I guess it would take some practice to make sure you move at the right time to benefit from the bounce!

And your explanation of how the deadlift could benefit also makes perfect sense - thanks for taking the time to answer dude 

[Taffin]

Yes, with a whippy Olympic bar, many of the best lifters can time and feel the whip, and get a few extra pounds out of it during certain stages of the lift.

With a powerlifting bar, the movements are slower and simpler, so stiffness wins out. there's less/no whip, so you're less likely to be thrown out of the groove.

The last bar you may find is a Deadlift bar used in some powerlifting feds. The longer length (7 1/2') and thinner shaft cause more deflection under load (they bend more ). This can shave a tiny bit of distance off the lift at the start, and many people seem to enjoy more pulling strength with a thinner bar (Pushing tends to favor a slightly thicker bar).

Edit - here's a good look a top OL lifter using bar whip (at the dip and catch, and the jerk) -

.

I responded to Illuminati before I read your post, and yes I get it now.  Although as I said I never moved much past 315 for anything myself and never really watched Olympic lifting I have always enjoyed watching strongman competitions.  And I have found myself pointing out how technique was just as important as brute strength for some of the lifts - so being able to 'catch' the bounce clearly adds small percentage points of additional performance for high-level lifters...

I watched the vid too, and  wow..... just wow.... explosive.  Most of the bigger lifts I've watched on here were the powerlifting type - much slower (still impressive but in a different way to this vid)

Thanks for responding man 

[BB]

Didn’t ken have a darkie adopted son that they claimed was the strongest man who ever lived could squat 600x20 or so?

His Wife and another channel are putting up some old lifting videos, which might interest some -

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- Might be a bit boring for people not into equipment.



www.youtube.com/user/STGStrengthandPower/videos - Lots of early 80's - 90's stuff here.

www.youtube.com/channel/UCcQ6qJ1smwQSlnY3-FJoDiA - His wife's channel.

[MAXX]

Ha, I thought it was gone forever, but I see it was reposted yesterday -

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The squats at 23 minutes in caused a stir close to 20 years ago.

Edit - Click here if video won't play on the site -

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that's some high intensity training. I can see why he was so strong for his bodyweight.