Racism - An unsolvable problem - since whites can never understand - discuss

[Al Doggity]

So you won't answer the question directly. Why is that?

Telling a Chinese that is WRONGLY convicted that it would be worse in China" What kind of analogy is that? Your other analogies are just as silly. Just answer the question.

Now please, no strawman arguments, just answer the simple direct question with a simple direct answer. I have found that in most instances that the reason a person will not answer a simple direct question is that they are hiding something or don't want to admit to something. Is that you.

I did answer the question in the final paragraph. I gave an example of a country that had done a lot for their minority population and I also explained why it's not possible to give a 1-1 comparison. For you to act like I'm dodging is ridiculous. The fact that it's a point of contention for you doesn't mean it has to be for me. Why would I find it remarkable or noteworthy that a government does things to benefit it's people? Obviously, that is not what happens across the board, but it is not an unusual thing and it's not something that is exclusive to blacks.

And if you think the analogy is stupid, that's precisely the point. It was meant to highlight the ridiculousness of your question. Once again, why am I supposed to think it's so unusual for America to do things to benefit its citizens?

What's relevant? That there were people that supported slavery. And  institution that existed all throughout human history. That's more relevant the what makes America unique was they are the first society to end it. That doesn't matter to you? There will always be opposition in all things. It's who wins that matter. You just focus on the ones that were against it and DISCREDITED. And you don't know what I mean by discredited? Haven't you been paying attention? All throughout the country, any reference to the Confederates are being destroyed. Names of schools, institutions, academies are being changed. Statues being taken down or destroyed. Even NASCAR has now banned the displaying of the Confederate flags at their events. How much more discredited can you be? Nothing will ever satisfy you.

No, America was not the first country to abolish slavery.

Much of the discreditation that you listed took place in the last few weeks as a direct result of protests.

Yet, what am I supposed to take from your post? It's wrong or *UNGRATEFUL*  to mobilize for change, but the changes that result from mobilizing  prove how great things are? You claim these movements  prove it will never be enough for blacks, but  when they garner results  that's supposed to serve as proof that the country is moving forward?

No, I didn't focus on the opposition. My point was never that milestones in this country's battle against institutionalized racism weren't good, positive steps. My point was that they were only steps in a long road (that imo is not over.) You seemed to be arguing that they were the final, most important. And that's not me misinterpreting you based on the next bit from you I quoted.

Listen to your analogy. You try o equate a guy wrong convicted and imprisoned after 50 yearsand gets just a nominal settlement. That would be valid if you were actually a slave. But your weren't. You didn't suffer the pain of real institutionalize discrimination that your ancestors did. You didn't serve any time of real slavery let alone fifty years. You disgrace and minimize their real suffering when you try to claim their mantle of real oppression.

See? This is exactly what I mean. Slavery is not the only form of institutionalized discrimination. It's not even the only form of extreme institutionalized oppression. It was pretty blatant and severe here in America just a generation ago. And the milder after effects last even longer and are more insidious. For the record, any claims of my oppression and the level of it are things you've pulled out of thin air.

You believe there is some cabal, some deep state think tank, that plots the course for all companies and organizations to ensure that Blacks can never win despite the countless example of those who do? That Benzos has a covert policy to ensure that Blacks will never rise to a certain level. How did that that nig, Don Thompson, sneak through and become the President and CEO of McDonalds at one point?

Just one example that's become very popular in the news over the last week or two. There's this media company called Bon Appetit that is based off of the magazine. The video division has become really popular over the last few years and I actually worked with the brand when they were first gaining significant popularity. (I also interned at the magazine company that owns the brand. I was the only black intern during my cycle.) Anyway, they had an internal race controversy there and they've been experiencing sort of a reckoning as a result. It came to a head because of a Bangladeshi contributor who had a solid cooking and media background and had become a fan favorite. She revealed that most of the minority contributors weren't paid for video appearances while their white counterparts were. It became a major point of contention for her because the amount of video work she was expected to do increased dramatically as a result of lockdown. Anyway, more details started coming out about the workplace environment and even white workers began admitting that conversations with management involved how to maintain the "voice" of the brand while hewing to the diversity the audience had been asking for- which they interpreted to mean how can we keep the brand as white as possible.

So, this is just a succinct rundown and obviously there were other details and your reaction is probably "well, there are probably things that justify the work environment" or "there's no smoking gun there at all" and that's precisely the point. For you, there probably actually does have to be photographic evidence of the Bezos cabal with agenda printouts, but this is what people mean when they refer to institutional racism. It's not hiring policies that explicitly state "no black or hispanics allowed." It's hiring and work place practices that facilitate that end.


As for Don Thompson, I already addressed this in the post you quoted. I never said it's not possible for. So much of what you're attributing to me are arguments that you're making up yourself, even when I specifically say otherwise.

There are times when there is such a chasm in two opposing world views that it is beyond debate. It's like me having a debate on whether or not the world is flat. To equate race, something that you are born with and cannot change, with a person's behavior and appearance is just beyond preposterouse will have...

Which is just another unnecessary  wall of text to get around admitting that it is not unusual to notice the physical characteristics of people in a room. I read your reply to primemuscle where you claim that your intolerance with fat people comes down to their own health. When your previous argument was that it was the ambiance they created in the same way gay men and run down houses do. You also earlier said that the difference between you and your college friend was that you don't go around keeping track of obese people, yet in your response you said that after you started taking the bus, you started to keep track of how you see fat people everywhere.

So, if you feel like now's the time for you to bow out, that's fine, because I feel like this is the tactic you've employed throughout this discussion with me. Purposefully misinterpret what I say and then constantly reconfigure what you meant. There's no getting around the fact that the race one appears to be is a HUGE factor in how people judge other people.

[SOMEPARTS]

TL:DR

[Primemuscle]

Wow. Turning down West Point. It must have been very disappointing.

It was not about pretending to be someone else. When a person is growing up they are still finding themselves. They need to have guidance and direction. To tell someone who is depressed and lonely to "be himself" means nothing. He doesn't know what to be. He goes to school, sits in class, plays video games, is shy, doesn't have friends, lack confidence. There are certain traits that are universal. One of the simplest things in all it's primal glory is to be strong. Everyone respects strength. And I know how men bond. Women bond by engaging in social type events. They meet and talk, have lunch, tea parties, gatherings. My sister always makes it point for her friends to get together and go to a restaurant and sit and chatter. A social event. Men tend to bond by a common cause. When you are mutually involved in a common cause. Sports are idea. You work as a team and form a bond and friendships that carry on beyond the activity. My nephew was not very athletic but I knew once he gets in the high school gym on a regular basis he's going to start to develop that bond that you start to develop sharing mutual interest and goals. I remember being the skinny runt at my high school gym but eventually I became a regular and soon blended into the "in" crowd as they spotted me and encouraged me in my lifts. Same with BJJ. A lot of these guys aren't natural athletes but getting out there and mixing it up. Helping others as others help you.

I'm about real-life action and real-life results and not about catering to a person's feelings or sensitivities. The world can be a pretty rough and unforgiving place and this generation is really losing the ability to just cope. Soon we will have a generation that hasn't developed an immune system as we sterilize everything and wear masks. Get out there, take you lumps, and then start giving out lumps. In Jiu-Jitsu they use to say you have to start out as a nail before you can be a hammer. I remember my nephew writing me emails about how he gets tossed around like a rag doll in class. I just told him "Welcome to my world". I still get my ass kick on a regular basis. But I get back up and keep going. And I do a bit of ass-kicking myself. That's life. You take some, you give some. Or you can sit on the sidelines and feel sorry for yourself.

Now a couple of weeks ago this guy I know from the gym, in his mid-thirties and pretty jacked told me how he's known my nephew since he first started in Jiu-Jitstu, and now my nephew schools him. He told the last time they trained my nephew tossed him around like a rag doll. LOL.

It works. It works every damn time.

One of the shortcomings of online conversations is that they can be so easily misinterpreted. Clearly, there was more to this story than I originally understood. 

[pellius]

I did answer the question in the final paragraph. I gave an example of a country that had done a lot for their minority population and I also explained why it's not possible to give a 1-1 comparison. For you to act like I'm dodging is ridiculous. The fact that it's a point of contention for you doesn't mean it has to be for me. Why would I find it remarkable or noteworthy that a government does things to benefit it's people? Obviously, that is not what happens across the board, but it is not an unusual thing and it's not something that is exclusive to blacks.

And if you think the analogy is stupid, that's precisely the point. It was meant to highlight the ridiculousness of your question. Once again, why am I supposed to think it's so unusual for America to do things to benefit its citizens?


No, America was not the first country to abolish slavery.

Much of the discreditation that you listed took place in the last few weeks as a direct result of protests.

Yet, what am I supposed to take from your post? It's wrong or *UNGRATEFUL*  to mobilize for change, but the changes that result from mobilizing  prove how great things are? You claim these movements  prove it will never be enough for blacks, but  when they garner results  that's supposed to serve as proof that the country is moving forward?

No, I didn't focus on the opposition. My point was never that milestones in this country's battle against institutionalized racism weren't good, positive steps. My point was that they were only steps in a long road (that imo is not over.) You seemed to be arguing that they were the final, most important. And that's not me misinterpreting you based on the next bit from you I quoted.

See? This is exactly what I mean. Slavery is not the only form of institutionalized discrimination. It's not even the only form of extreme institutionalized oppression. It was pretty blatant and severe here in America just a generation ago. And the milder after effects last even longer and are more insidious. For the record, any claims of my oppression and the level of it are things you've pulled out of thin air.

Just one example that's become very popular in the news over the last week or two. There's this media company called Bon Appetit that is based off of the magazine. The video division has become really popular over the last few years and I actually worked with the brand when they were first gaining significant popularity. (I also interned at the magazine company that owns the brand. I was the only black intern during my cycle.) Anyway, they had an internal race controversy there and they've been experiencing sort of a reckoning as a result. It came to a head because of a Bangladeshi contributor who had a solid cooking and media background and had become a fan favorite. She revealed that most of the minority contributors weren't paid for video appearances while their white counterparts were. It became a major point of contention for her because the amount of video work she was expected to do increased dramatically as a result of lockdown. Anyway, more details started coming out about the workplace environment and even white workers began admitting that conversations with management involved how to maintain the "voice" of the brand while hewing to the diversity the audience had been asking for- which they interpreted to mean how can we keep the brand as white as possible.

So, this is just a succinct rundown and obviously there were other details and your reaction is probably "well, there are probably things that justify the work environment" or "there's no smoking gun there at all" and that's precisely the point. For you, there probably actually does have to be photographic evidence of the Bezos cabal with agenda printouts, but this is what people mean when they refer to institutional racism. It's not hiring policies that explicitly state "no black or hispanics allowed." It's hiring and work place practices that facilitate that end.


As for Don Thompson, I already addressed this in the post you quoted. I never said it's not possible for. So much of what you're attributing to me are arguments that you're making up yourself, even when I specifically say otherwise.



Which is just another unnecessary  wall of text to get around admitting that it is not unusual to notice the physical characteristics of people in a room. I read your reply to primemuscle where you claim that your intolerance with fat people comes down to their own health. When your previous argument was that it was the ambiance they created in the same way gay men and run down houses do. You also earlier said that the difference between you and your college friend was that you don't go around keeping track of obese people, yet in your response you said that after you started taking the bus, you started to keep track of how you see fat people everywhere.

So, if you feel like now's the time for you to bow out, that's fine, because I feel like this is the tactic you've employed throughout this discussion with me. Purposefully misinterpret what I say and then constantly reconfigure what you meant. There's no getting around the fact that the race one appears to be is a HUGE factor in how people judge other people.

No, you didn't give a simple direct answer to a simple direct question. You claim that it is "not possible" to give a 1-on-1 comparison. "Impossible?" Now THAR is ridiculous and there is no one that will agree with you. I can easily say that America is a better place to live than say North Korea or Communist China. See? It's possible. You dodge the question because you risk committing one of the mortal sins that a Leftist can commit, i.e., to say something positive about America. The Left is animated by its hatred of this country and the cause for all the ills in the world while at the same time reaping the benefits of this country that they will never want to leave.

It is clear that this has become a pointless debate. We, meaning me, and White people, in general, are always asked to try to put themselves in the place of a Black man living in America. To try to imagine what it is like.

Now, how about you? How about you trying to put yourself in the place of a White person, or say, to be more specific in this specific debate, being me listening to you? Do you think you have advanced the cause of your people? Do you think I will leave this discussion thinking that I have to do more to help the plight of the perpetually oppressed and tortured Black American male? No matter what I say: Over a million Americans died to end slavery, your reply is just "Well, half the country was against it and they weren't the first and it didn't free the slaves." We had the Emancipation Proclamation. "Well, that didn't come until a hundred years later." What about the Civil Rights Act? The 13th Amendment? The 14th Amendment guaranteeing all citizens equal protection under the law? Brown versus Board of Education ending racial segregation?...
None of that matters because, according to you, "every progressive move in regards to race that this country has seen has been impeded tooth and nail by a large opposition." So because there was not universal acceptance, something that never happens in anything, it is casually dismissed.

So no matter what advancement is made it is categorically dismissed as not enough, too late, or opposed by many even though they lost. So I have to ask myself, is it worth it to even try? If we pay out "reparations" taking money from people who never owned slaves and giving it to people who never were slaves will it matter? At this time Nike is donating 40 million dollars; Addias, 20 million dollars; Walmart, 100 million dollars all to those political organizations supposedly helping the Black cause. What will that do? Will Blacks become better fathers and actually raise the children they produce. Will they work harder? Be more productive? Will they go to school and study harder? Will they reduce their consumption of drugs and liquor? Will they now look to themselves and not to White people for the direction their lives will take?

I have countered and dismissed every argument you have made. No one here agrees with you. Of course, you just take that as just another example of how racist we all are. The ability to step outside of yourself and engage in some serious self-reflection is nil. You exemplify the typical Black male who has been brainwashed to blame everything of the White man.

So you are the prototypical example of why I say that we, society in general and Whites, in particular, should do absolutely nothing for you. No matter what we do it will never be enough and you will always want more and the resentment and hostility will still be there.

So you may shake your head at my ignorance and lack of understanding of the issues involved. But it doesn't matter. This is the impression and the effect that you have on me and everyone that is not Black. You only hurt your cause.

So in my ideal world there would be complete separation. We do nothing for you and you do nothing for us. It's live and let live. Stay out of my world and I'll stay out of yours. You have made it crystal clear that there is nothing I can do anyway that will make a difference. So I leave you to your genetically ingrained resentment, your eternal feelings of self-pity, and your life of perpetual victimhood control by the White institutionalize forces outside your control. So, Al, let the hostilities continue. And be warned, that if you push us too far you will lose. Your people are no match for my people. And you heard me right. "YOU PEOPLE" and "MY PEOPLE" because we are in no way the same.