Ronnie Seems Wasted...

[Van_Bilderass]

I don't drink, smoke, or use drugs. Although I had a real piece of shit woman I was seeing in 2018, and I more or less tried everything that year.

Then I made a decision to never do anything ever again, with the exception that if I do indulge, it will be an opiate/opioid.

I'd say once a quarter is ok. But it's the sort of thing that can spiral out of control. But...I've gone my entire life being way too cautious, so...I don't know, I'm thinking...go with once a quarter and take the risk.

The reason why I feel opiates are appropriate is precisely because they are nontoxic. I also feel that downers are a better choice than uppers.

As for Nubain...I went to the Wikipedia page. What is an opioid agonist antagonist?:

Also, this blurb before that:

Huh? No euphoria? That's not what one Getbigger said. He said it was like having a little oven inside you keeping you warm, haha!

And I don't get this:

LOL. Wtf? 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalbuphine

Also...it says no euphoria. I find that hard to believe?

As for Bob's comment that Nubain fucked up Tom's kidneys...Bob is in denial. Being 315-lb at 5'7.5" and the resulting skyrocketing of blood pressure fucked up Tom's kidneys. Opiates are not kidney toxic.

The Paracetamol [Tylenol] is WAY worse than the opiate!

Tylenol is such a useless antipyretic!

And yeah...being on any opiate is like being on heroin, systemically.

But that's my point:
Opiates are not systemically damage.

What happens is...OVERDO THEM...and you DIE.

Hence the lifespan for opiates users is shorter, due to the people using them irresponsibly and dying from respiratory depression.

But if you don't die, they don't do much damage to your organs...if any, really.

Again, you just die. Or go bankrupt. Or both.

Like I said, IMO, Bob is wrong about Nubain messing up Tom's kidneys. People have the mentality "It can't happen to me." So Bob wants to think Tom messed up his kidneys doing the only drug Bob wasn't doing. IMO, the bodybuilding/kidney risks are:

[1] High body weight = high blood pressure = destructive to kidneys over time.
[2] Cutting drugs / diuretics [dehydration] is hard on the kidneys.

Originally, I thought Nubain had Paracetamol in it, and that messed up Tom's organs. But that damages the liver [in doses over 3-4g daily]. Not the kidneys.

And look...I'm not rationalizing my own opiate dabbling. I'm CHOOSING to dabble in opiate stuff [and NOTHING else] in the future BECAUSE it's nontoxic, and because I have willpower.

I'm a hypochondriac...I don't want to mess up my body. IMO, doing 25mg of oxycodone once in a blue moon is a lot less toxic than getting piss drunk.

I could be wrong, but I truly believe opiates are extremely nontoxic.

Again...the issue is respiratory depression leading to death. If you skirt that, and skirt going bankrupt, the worst issue is constipation, IMO.

I am admittedly pro-opiate.

What other drug is that nontoxic? Keep in mind, I can't smoke weed [I get WAY too paranoid]. I wish I could smoke weed, but I can't.

My birthday is December 21st, which would be a perfect night for some oxycodone if I can find any. 

Never tried Nubain so can't comment on the euphoria. But I would say codeine doesn't really cause euphoria either. Euphoria I would describe as something that can have you "kicking" just lying in bed smiling and feeling like you are orgasming constantly. "Full body orgasm" is how heroin or even Oxy users explain the kick. You have these tingling euphoric waves going through your body. Just feeling "warm" and at ease perhaps doesn't quite qualify as outright euphoria. Now one "minor opioid" that can definitely cause euphoria is tramadol. Here in Sweden all the suburban throubled kids are on it. It wasn't thought of as addicting for decades until junkies started using it and now it's considered a very serious high-risk drug. And it does work well, like an instant antidepressant, quite amazing ime. ESFitness went to heroin when his tramadol dried up. He had been on Nubain previously but kicked it. Ironically Dan Duchaine had a protocol for getting off Nubain with the "non-addictive" tramadol. And would you believe it, it was thought of as non-addictive before bodybuilders starting using it on Duchaine's advice. I distinctly remember reading, "a study following 5000 Nubain users in hospital setting saw only 1 or 2 having any problems getting off."

Another recreational drug that doedn't really cause euphoria is benzos.
But the absence of anxiety may make some feel it's euphoric, but they don't outright make you feel abnormally good, actually make some depressed.

For an athlete training, euphoria from opiates may make training almost impossible. Just try it, you'll see what I mean. I often take phenibut and kratom before training and even that makes you feel a little too good, you don't feel like lifting at all if you feel too good.

Bob most likely wasn't in denial, he just didn't know better. If someone puts needles in his arm it's only natural to attribute physical illness to it.

A "mixed agonist/antagonist" may mean it modulates the action of a certain neurotransmitter or blocks one type of opiate ( or other receptor) and activates another. A drug may also increase the level of a neurotransmitter in one part of the brain but not in others. Bodybuilding related: a drug like Nolvadex can work as an estrogen in the brain or bone but also as an anti-estrogen in breast tissue. So you get agonism as well as antagonism depending on the tissue. If I recall corrctly the agonist/antagonist effect of Nubain made it hard to OD on.

One psychiatrist told me if I wanted to try "Abilify" she could write a script. It's a dual agonist/antagonist wrt dopamine. I didn't want it.

[Matt]

*snip*

Great post. Great read. Thanks Van.

I always find it stupid in cases when it is said that opiates/opioids are non-addictive.

The original marketing for OxyContin in 1996 is that it wasn't addictive. 🙄 That was literally based on the statement of one doctor, and created the mess we currently have with the Jewish Sackler family [who, in the internal documents read by Richard Spencer, it was established that they specifically targeting the Whitest counties to push opiates on].

There is a new Netflix series on the head Jewish Sackler, Richard Sackler. Played by Matthew Broderick.

The first episode opens with a scene making Sackler look like some idiot out-of-touch elitist, then follows with the "strong Black woman" trope.  Then I stopped watching it.

I have about 7 or 8 Ativan here in case any of my friends have panic attacks, or if any of my Coke snorting friends overdose. But I make it clear - they are for emergencies.

I was given a prescription of 1mg Ativan daily in July/August of 2020 due to pandemic depression and other stuff.

You are right, Van - I didn't notice much. Some sedation.

Us talking about this makes me want to score some oxycodone, LOL. I can't remember the last time I had it. As I said - I'm TOO cautious. Like, what was I doing staying at 170-lb for 10 years, and barely ever running gear?

Total hypochondriac.

That said, I get it - these things can spiral out of hand.

I'm thinking I'll grab some OxyContin for my birthday in December, and do an AMA thread on here, LOL.

I make it a point to NOT know how to find it, because it is truly the only drug I want to do. So I don't want it to be easy to find.

Regarding Kratom:

You reminded me - I have like 50g in my freezer. A friend has been ordering 1kg bags of it to my house, because his mail gets stolen in his apartment building. He pays me about 10g every time.

I can't tell what strain is what.

IMO, Kratom high = VERY similar to opiate high.

So I wouldn't mind having a glass.

How much Kratom do you take for one serving, Van?

For an athlete training, euphoria from opiates may make training almost impossible. Just try it, you'll see what I mean.

I think I'll do that! Great suggestion, Van!

 

[Van_Bilderass]

I always find it stupid in cases when it is said that opiates/opioids are non-addictive.

The original marketing for OxyContin in 1996 is that it wasn't addictive. 🙄 That was literally based on the statement of one doctor, and created the mess we currently have with the Jewish Sackler family [who, in the internal documents read by Richard Spencer, it was established that they specifically targeting the Whitest counties to push opiates on].



Us talking about this makes me want to score some oxycodone, LOL. I can't remember the last time I had it. As I said - I'm TOO cautious. Like, what was I doing staying at 170-lb for 10 years, and barely ever running gear?

Total hypochondriac.

That said, I get it - these things can spiral out of hand.

I'm thinking I'll grab some OxyContin for my birthday in December, and do an AMA thread on here, LOL.

I make it a point to NOT know how to find it, because it is truly the only drug I want to do. So I don't want it to be easy to find.

Regarding Kratom:

You reminded me - I have like 50g in my freezer. A friend has been ordering 1kg bags of it to my house, because his mail gets stolen in his apartment building. He pays me about 10g every time.

I can't tell what strain is what.

IMO, Kratom high = VERY similar to opiate high.

So I wouldn't mind having a glass.

How much Kratom do you take for one serving, Van?

I think I'll do that! Great suggestion, Van!

 

I actually didn't find that much difference between strains of Kratom. When I first tried it I did 1.5-2.5 grams. I could barely feel it. Didn't order again for a long time because it "didn't work." Then I ordered some other supps and a couple of hundred grams of Kratom and titrated the dose up. I'm now up to 6 grams a dose, up to twice daily It doesn't do much on its own even at that dosage, no nodding etc that some have reported, but combined with phenibut it makes me feel real good. Phenibut is kinda like a Valium except it noticeably boosts dopamine and can cause mild euphoria, especially in this combo with Kratom. Warning: phenibut is very physically addicting and the withdrawal is bad. But it doesn't cause amnesia like benzos ime. For anyone wanting to try it but not wanting to get addicted I would recommend 1 time a week max continuously or a very short course at an extremely stressful period. I'm amazed it hasn't been banned because it really is an amazing drug for many anxiety sufferers, makes you sociable and so on.  It's supposedly very similar to Baclofen and also Lyrica, two drugs I haven't tried. This explains the indications for use in Russia. One pack is a course, that's how little you should do in a single course. It's a medication, a serious drug, not a supplement though it's sold as one.
https://cosmicnootropic.com/products/phenibut/

Of course I know Kratom will cause dependence too. Abuse it and there will be consequences. I've used it for awhile and will need to taper down and then suffer for a period.

Regarding Oxycodone, it's above the limit of drugs I would consider using recreationally. Unless I was in excruciating pain. I got like 4 days worth of 5mg pills after surgery, I think a total of 8 pills. At this dose I didn't notice much except once where it put me in a very bad mood, crushing depression out of nowhere and needing to sleep in the middle of the day. A week ago a friend of mine said he made a contact that would sell him some oxycodone he would take at special occasions or severe pain. I asked him, "do you trust yourself enough to have it sit in your cabinet until that special occasion?" A week later he said he had considered my question and decided not to buy the pills lol. Like myself he would do tramadol every now and then and that is bad enough lol.

The reason they said Oxycontin wasn't addicting was because it was a depot pill. Usually the faster acting a drug the easier to get hooked on it scientists think. But it's completely idiotic to suppose a crazy strong opiate isn't addicting, depot formulation or not.

[G_Thang]

[Lartinos]

I don't drink, smoke, or use drugs. Although I had a real piece of shit woman I was seeing in 2018, and I more or less tried everything that year.

Then I made a decision to never do anything ever again, with the exception that if I do indulge, it will be an opiate/opioid.

I'd say once a quarter is ok. But it's the sort of thing that can spiral out of control. But...I've gone my entire life being way too cautious, so...I don't know, I'm thinking...go with once a quarter and take the risk.

The reason why I feel opiates are appropriate is precisely because they are nontoxic. I also feel that downers are a better choice than uppers.

As for Nubain...I went to the Wikipedia page. What is an opioid agonist antagonist?:

Also, this blurb before that:

Huh? No euphoria? That's not what one Getbigger said. He said it was like having a little oven inside you keeping you warm, haha!

And I don't get this:

LOL. Wtf? 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalbuphine

Also...it says no euphoria. I find that hard to believe?

As for Bob's comment that Nubain fucked up Tom's kidneys...Bob is in denial. Being 315-lb at 5'7.5" and the resulting skyrocketing of blood pressure fucked up Tom's kidneys. Opiates are not kidney toxic.

The Paracetamol [Tylenol] is WAY worse than the opiate!

Tylenol is such a useless antipyretic!

And yeah...being on any opiate is like being on heroin, systemically.

But that's my point:
Opiates are not systemically damage.

What happens is...OVERDO THEM...and you DIE.

Hence the lifespan for opiates users is shorter, due to the people using them irresponsibly and dying from respiratory depression.

But if you don't die, they don't do much damage to your organs...if any, really.

Again, you just die. Or go bankrupt. Or both.

Like I said, IMO, Bob is wrong about Nubain messing up Tom's kidneys. People have the mentality "It can't happen to me." So Bob wants to think Tom messed up his kidneys doing the only drug Bob wasn't doing. IMO, the bodybuilding/kidney risks are:

[1] High body weight = high blood pressure = destructive to kidneys over time.
[2] Cutting drugs / diuretics [dehydration] is hard on the kidneys.

Originally, I thought Nubain had Paracetamol in it, and that messed up Tom's organs. But that damages the liver [in doses over 3-4g daily]. Not the kidneys.

And look...I'm not rationalizing my own opiate dabbling. I'm CHOOSING to dabble in opiate stuff [and NOTHING else] in the future BECAUSE it's nontoxic, and because I have willpower.

I'm a hypochondriac...I don't want to mess up my body. IMO, doing 25mg of oxycodone once in a blue moon is a lot less toxic than getting piss drunk.

I could be wrong, but I truly believe opiates are extremely nontoxic.

Again...the issue is respiratory depression leading to death. If you skirt that, and skirt going bankrupt, the worst issue is constipation, IMO.

I am admittedly pro-opiate.

What other drug is that nontoxic? Keep in mind, I can't smoke weed [I get WAY too paranoid]. I wish I could smoke weed, but I can't.

My birthday is December 21st, which would be a perfect night for some oxycodone if I can find any. 

I have an old bottle from an elective surgery I had years back I don’t touch.

I don’t take them recreationally because the next day or so I don’t feel right.

Worth the feeling for you I guess..

[beakdoctor]

I actually didn't find that much difference between strains of Kratom. When I first tried it I did 1.5-2.5 grams. I could barely feel it. Didn't order again for a long time because it "didn't work." Then I ordered some other supps and a couple of hundred grams of Kratom and titrated the dose up. I'm now up to 6 grams a dose, up to twice daily It doesn't do much on its own even at that dosage, no nodding etc that some have reported, but combined with phenibut it makes me feel real good. Phenibut is kinda like a Valium except it noticeably boosts dopamine and can cause mild euphoria, especially in this combo with Kratom. Warning: phenibut is very physically addicting and the withdrawal is bad. But it doesn't cause amnesia like benzos ime. For anyone wanting to try it but not wanting to get addicted I would recommend 1 time a week max continuously or a very short course at an extremely stressful period. I'm amazed it hasn't been banned because it really is an amazing drug for many anxiety sufferers, makes you sociable and so on.  It's supposedly very similar to Baclofen and also Lyrica, two drugs I haven't tried. This explains the indications for use in Russia. One pack is a course, that's how little you should do in a single course. It's a medication, a serious drug, not a supplement though it's sold as one.
https://cosmicnootropic.com/products/phenibut/

Of course I know Kratom will cause dependence too. Abuse it and there will be consequences. I've used it for awhile and will need to taper down and then suffer for a period.

Regarding Oxycodone, it's above the limit of drugs I would consider using recreationally. Unless I was in excruciating pain. I got like 4 days worth of 5mg pills after surgery, I think a total of 8 pills. At this dose I didn't notice much except once where it put me in a very bad mood, crushing depression out of nowhere and needing to sleep in the middle of the day. A week ago a friend of mine said he made a contact that would sell him some oxycodone he would take at special occasions or severe pain. I asked him, "do you trust yourself enough to have it sit in your cabinet until that special occasion?" A week later he said he had considered my question and decided not to buy the pills lol. Like myself he would do tramadol every now and then and that is bad enough lol.

The reason they said Oxycontin wasn't addicting was because it was a depot pill. Usually the faster acting a drug the easier to get hooked on it scientists think. But it's completely idiotic to suppose a crazy strong opiate isn't addicting, depot formulation or not.

I have read in various anecdotal accounts as well as a scientific explanation that Kratos and phenibut have antagonistic effects on each other I have used both.  I like phenibut much better but as you said it is addictive.  Kratos is addictive as well but in a much different way.

Whenever I have taken phenibut alone I sleep like a baby.  When ever I have taken Kratom and phenibut together my sleep is restless,  awake but dream like. I have taken them together and went the entire night without sleeping an entire hour straight but get up and not be tired....however when that happens I do not get the psychological benefits of phenibut: the confidence,  the total outward-extroverted focus.

Last night I used phenibut and slept for 5 hours. Got up at 6 to go to the gym. But felt high AF from the phenibut.  Sat down and fell asleep for another 4 1/2 full hours. Woke up at 10:30 and checked my phone for the time. The very next moment I was waking up again at 1230! I didn't even recall nodding off at 1030! I love that shit. But It's too addicting and you develop a tolerance too quickly.

[Van_Bilderass]

Last night I used phenibut and slept for 5 hours. Got up at 6 to go to the gym. But felt high AF from the phenibut.  Sat down and fell asleep for another 4 1/2 full hours. Woke up at 10:30 and checked my phone for the time. The very next moment I was waking up again at 1230! I didn't even recall nodding off at 1030! I love that shit. But It's too addicting and you develop a tolerance too quickly.

I've slept for more than 30 hours on phenibut, it's crazy. Insanity. If you go on a forum like reddit there are a number of people who claim they are total nonresponders to it. Something must be wrong with how they've used it. Some claim it takes 2-4 hours to even start working and it makes some sense but I start feeling it a little in as little as 15 minutes. A common first use report is how they had the best day ever the day after they took it, the half life is so long. The withdrawal is a bitch, probaly makes you physically dependent like 5 times faster that Xanax and so on. But phenibut is better than a benzo in most ways . Even you libido can kick into high gear, unlike with benzos that kills are sexual feelings, at least for me. It's like GHB instead. No amnesia, people mostly can't tell you're under the influence, though once at work a guy asked why I was speaking so slow, in short courses it can be neuroprotective and improve brain functions which is why they classify it as a nootropic. It's a shame about the dependency.

Theres also f-phenibut, a derivative not tested on humans. It has a much quicker onset but it can knock you on your ass unexpectedly. I wouldn't recommend it although I have 20 grams stored away for a rainy day lol.

Have you tried bromantane as a stimulant? Another Russian drug. Many say they can't tell if it's doing anything but for me it's quite strong. They call it an adaptogen and "actoprotector" lol.

https://cosmicnootropic.com/products/ladasten/

[wazhazbin]

Never tried Nubain so can't comment on the euphoria. But I would say codeine doesn't really cause euphoria either. Euphoria I would describe as something that can have you "kicking" just lying in bed smiling and feeling like you are orgasming constantly. "Full body orgasm" is how heroin or even Oxy users explain the kick. You have these tingling euphoric waves going through your body. Just feeling "warm" and at ease perhaps doesn't quite qualify as outright euphoria. Now one "minor opioid" that can definitely cause euphoria is tramadol. Here in Sweden all the suburban throubled kids are on it. It wasn't thought of as addicting for decades until junkies started using it and now it's considered a very serious high-risk drug. And it does work well, like an instant antidepressant, quite amazing ime. ESFitness went to heroin when his tramadol dried up. He had been on Nubain previously but kicked it. Ironically Dan Duchaine had a protocol for getting off Nubain with the "non-addictive" tramadol. And would you believe it, it was thought of as non-addictive before bodybuilders starting using it on Duchaine's advice. I distinctly remember reading, "a study following 5000 Nubain users in hospital setting saw only 1 or 2 having any problems getting off."

Another recreational drug that doedn't really cause euphoria is benzos.
But the absence of anxiety may make some feel it's euphoric, but they don't outright make you feel abnormally good, actually make some depressed.

For an athlete training, euphoria from opiates may make training almost impossible. Just try it, you'll see what I mean. I often take phenibut and kratom before training and even that makes you feel a little too good, you don't feel like lifting at all if you feel too good.

Bob most likely wasn't in denial, he just didn't know better. If someone puts needles in his arm it's only natural to attribute physical illness to it.

A "mixed agonist/antagonist" may mean it modulates the action of a certain neurotransmitter or blocks one type of opiate ( or other receptor) and activates another. A drug may also increase the level of a neurotransmitter in one part of the brain but not in others. Bodybuilding related: a drug like Nolvadex can work as an estrogen in the brain or bone but also as an anti-estrogen in breast tissue. So you get agonism as well as antagonism depending on the tissue. If I recall corrctly the agonist/antagonist effect of Nubain made it hard to OD on.

One psychiatrist told me if I wanted to try "Abilify" she could write a script. It's a dual agonist/antagonist wrt dopamine. I didn't want it.

i take oxycodone daily for my fukked up spine..   i get no euphoria whatsoever and definitely no orgasmic feelings.

if i do take a dose too soon i get a feeling i can only describe as similar to hypoglycemia which i have been battling for 30 years and can't stand.

[Irongrip400]

That's just that good old KC Masterpiece.

Dude that was funny.

[Van_Bilderass]

i take oxycodone daily for my fukked up spine..   i get no euphoria whatsoever and definitely no orgasmic feelings.

if i do take a dose too soon i get a feeling i can only describe as similar to hypoglycemia which i have been battling for 30 years and can't stand.

Take a one week cold turkey break. Then the first dose might be magnificent, so the addicts/long term users say 

I know a guy with a fucked up back, many suregeries and so on. Says he doesn't really feel the oxycodone. Never in my life would I have thought this is hardcore dope addict, no indication whatsoever that he's under the influence. I don't really know any other people who are "medical addicts" to heavy opiates, maybe it's a rule that after getting used to the medicine they appear completely normal.

[wazhazbin]

Take a one week cold turkey break. Then the first dose might be magnificent, so the addicts/long term users say 

I know a guy with a fucked up back, many suregeries and so on. Says he doesn't really feel the oxycodone. Never in my life would I have thought this is hardcore dope addict, no indication whatsoever that he's under the influence. I don't really know any other people who are "medical addicts" to heavy opiates, maybe it's a rule that after getting used to the medicine they appear completely normal.

if i take a dose when i'm in less pain i feel it in my head.  when i'm in real pain ( almost constant) i feel nothing as for any kind of high or change in
brain function.

[beakdoctor]

I've slept for more than 30 hours on phenibut, it's crazy. Insanity. If you go on a forum like reddit there are a number of people who claim they are total nonresponders to it. Something must be wrong with how they've used it. Some claim it takes 2-4 hours to even start working and it makes some sense but I start feeling it a little in as little as 15 minutes. A common first use report is how they had the best day ever the day after they took it, the half life is so long. The withdrawal is a bitch, probaly makes you physically dependent like 5 times faster that Xanax and so on. But phenibut is better than a benzo in most ways . Even you libido can kick into high gear, unlike with benzos that kills are sexual feelings, at least for me. It's like GHB instead. No amnesia, people mostly can't tell you're under the influence, though once at work a guy asked why I was speaking so slow, in short courses it can be neuroprotective and improve brain functions which is why they classify it as a nootropic. It's a shame about the dependency.

Theres also f-phenibut, a derivative not tested on humans. It has a much quicker onset but it can knock you on your ass unexpectedly. I wouldn't recommend it although I have 20 grams stored away for a rainy day lol.

Have you tried bromantane as a stimulant? Another Russian drug. Many say they can't tell if it's doing anything but for me it's quite strong. They call it an adaptogen and "actoprotector" lol.

https://cosmicnootropic.com/products/ladasten/

I have not tried  bromantane. I've heard about it but have never purchased it and don't know much about it.

Phenibut is great. It does take a while to affect me. A few hours.  And I'm one who gets a massive libido boost. Honestly I could have sex 4 or 5 times a day when I've taken it an still want more. I also just have the 'best day ever ' experiences too. It really has you feeling so good. It's hard to describe.  It's like being drunk but not sloppy drunk. Like, right at the point when you're feeling good, talkative,  funny , confident etc. Except it lasts all day, there's no hangover,  no slurring words, no vomiting.  It just levels off at just the right 'high' and lasts for 12 to 18 hours easily for me.

[Van_Bilderass]

if i take a dose when i'm in less pain i feel it in my head.  when i'm in real pain ( almost constant) i feel nothing as for any kind of high or change in
brain function.

That's common too, they say you don't get addicted if you are legitimately in terrible pain, the nurses try to calm the patients. That's far from the truth but I think it's true too in a narrow sense, legitimate use doesn't cause addiction as easily. I didn't get addicted to fentanyl when I got it twice for a month or so in the past few years, there was one lost night of slep when they cut it off. My friend hurt his thumb working on a car and of course took 200mg of Tramadol since he had it. Felt nothing as far as a high, compared to when he just wanted to chill. It all "went to manage the pain."

What doctors have done to the elderly for several decades is a shame. Drug them until they are total vegetables. When they've cut off their meds they have sprung to life, and these were supposedly on death's door.

[joswift]

That's common too, they say you don't get addicted if you are legitimately in terrible pain, the nurses try to calm the patients. That's far from the truth but I think it's true too in a narrow sense, legitimate use doesn't cause addiction as easily. I didn't get addicted to fentanyl when I got it twice for a month or so in the past few years, there was one lost night of slep when they cut it off. My friend hurt his thumb working on a car and of course took 200mg of Tramadol since he had it. Felt nothing as far as a high, compared to when he just wanted to chill. It all "went to manage the pain."

What doctors have done to the elderly for several decades is a shame. Drug them until they are total vegetables. When they've cut off their meds they have sprung to life, and these were supposedly on death's door.

Friend of mine is in the later stages of bone and lung cancer
He is on fentanyl, oxycodone, morphine and some other sublingual drops.

They are hardly touching the pain
Poor guy is stuck in a wheelchair

[Van_Bilderass]

Phenibut is great. It does take a while to affect me. A few hours.  And I'm one who gets a massive libido boost. Honestly I could have sex 4 or 5 times a day when I've taken it an still want more. I also just have the 'best day ever ' experiences too. It really has you feeling so good. It's hard to describe.  It's like being drunk but not sloppy drunk. Like, right at the point when you're feeling good, talkative,  funny , confident etc. Except it lasts all day, there's no hangover,  no slurring words, no vomiting.  It just levels off at just the right 'high' and lasts for 12 to 18 hours easily for me.

In "high" doses it actually turns into a stimulant according to many. You could go to sleep but you are strangely wired too. Happened to me a couple of times 20 years ago. Speaking fast like a speed freak, couldn't hardly sit still. Then when I finally went to sleep I slept for 14 hours or something.

Bodybuilding related: it was Patrick Arnold who introduced the fitness community to it. He released a pill with a lowish dose of phenibut and a bunch of herbal adaptogens like ashwagandha and bacopa and rhodiola. Apparently he washed his hands off it pretty quickly, probably thought the authorities would come after him again. Today they say he is bizarro posting on FB at times. Supposedly on GHB even in the 90s, passed out at some meeting, the story goes. But that guy has released many items that have become wildly popular. He sold DMMA as "Geranamine" until his competitors figured out the specific substance. He claimed it was DSHEA compliant since he found some obscure study saying it was found in the plant. Subsequent testing showed that to be false.