Author Topic: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations  (Read 2098 times)

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39865
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2011, 10:24:53 AM »

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39865
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2011, 11:49:38 AM »
 Print      Close
Fast and Furious Scandal Cries Out for Answers
By John Lott
Published December 09, 2011 | FoxNews.com


ADVERTISEMENT
The "Fast & Furious" scandal is getting messier and messier. New e-mails finally released late this past Friday reveal that the Department of Justice personal viewed the then-secret operation as a way to push for more gun control laws. Despite administration promises to the contrary, whistleblowers have endured "isolation, retaliation and transfer." 

Meanwhile the operation's managers have done pretty well, some have even received promotions. 

Thursday Attorney General Eric Holder admitted that the operation was "wholly unacceptable," but he still offers absolutely no explanation to explain why the program was instituted. 

What's going on here? Let's see... 

- You have a government agency ordering gun dealers to make sales to suspected criminals that the dealers didn't want to sell to. 

- You have government agents testifying that the being purchased were not being traced. No attempt was made to even alert the Mexican government that the United States of America was given guns to drug gangs in their country. 

Up until now the only justification from the Obama administration for this "program" is that the Bush administration supposedly did the same thing with operation "Wide Receiver." 

In fact, it is a defense that the Justice Department and Congressional Democrats have raise multiple times. Congressman Elijah Cummings' office just made this defense on Wednesday. 

But the "Fast & Furious" and "Wide Receiver" programs are not remotely similar on the most important fact: The Bush administration tried to trace the guns and informed the Mexican authorities when the guns went across the border, but the Obama administration did not. 

And it is well-known how ineffective tracing programs have been anyway. 

The problem is that if "Wide Receiver" failed in tracing the guns and was subsequently shutdown, why is the solution to not even bother to try tracing the firearms? Holder's conclusion in testimony before Congress was simply: "Guns lost during this operation will continue to show up at crime scenes on both sides of the border." 

Would Holder have been as forgiving if a gun dealer had been caught intentionally doing the same thing that the Obama administration has been caught doing? 

The new e-mails documenting Justice Department discussions on the political benefits from the "Fast & Furious" program are disturbing and they are only going to give more ammunition to conspiracy theorists for why the Obama administration instituted the program to begin with. 

People who haven't trusted the Obama administration on this issue have already pointed out that "Fast & Furious" started pushing guns into Mexico at the same time that the Obama administration was making its inaccurate claims about the United States being a major source of Mexican crime guns. 

The new internal messages reveal that in early January this year, a month before there was any publicity about "Fast & Furious," Department of Justice personnel were pointing out: "this case ["Fast & Furious] could be a strong supporting factor [for new regulations] if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case." 

More evidence has also surfaced showing how uncomfortable gun dealers were in selling these guns that they didn't want to sell. One dealer wrote BATF officials in April 2010: "[W]e were hoping to put together something like a letter of understanding to alleviate concerns of some type of recourse against us down the road for selling these items. We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to the bad guys." 

Unfortunately, Holders' testimony Thursday didn't make things any clearer. His definition of "lying" depending on one's state of mind sounded positively Clintonian. 

But ultimately the Obama administration still faces a bigger problem. Can they ever come up with any remotely plausible explanation for why anyone would have started a program to push untraceable guns into Mexico? The longer it takes to provide an explanation, the more plausible the conspiracy theorists sound that this was all done for politics.

 

 Print      Close
URL
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion


Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39865
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
New data show that ATF’s Operation Fast and Furious just got a lot more scandalous
American Thinker ^ | 28 May, 2024 | Olivia Murray
Posted on 5/28/2024, 2:56:21 PM by MtnClimber

USA Today blames Mexican cartel and Latin America violence on small-time American gun stores, but then says the quiet part out loud.

From Nick Penzenstadler’s exclusive article at USA Today:

Hacked data reveals which US gun sellers are behind Mexican cartel violence

A massive leak of Mexican military intelligence has exposed for the first time in two decades U.S. gun shops and smugglers tied to 78,000 firearms recovered south of the border – and which types of guns are being trafficked.

The nuggets of information are among roughly 10 million records hacked by an anonymous collective known as ‘Guacamaya’ and shared with news outlets by the transparency organization Distributed Denial of Secrets, or DDoSecrets. The Mexican Defense Ministry leak previously made headlines for exposing military corruption and surveillance abuse, and now reveals the trace data on American-sold firearms recovered since 2018.

SNIP

As part of the leak, emails relaying U.S. government data between Mexican military leaders and PowerPoint presentations by Mexico’s attorney general show which American straw buyers were tied to the most weapons as of 2022.



Of the other six top purchasers, half are linked to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives scandal known as Fast and Furious.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...

Coach is Back!

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 59908
  • It’s All Bullshit
Print      Close
Fast and Furious Scandal Cries Out for Answers
By John Lott
Published December 09, 2011 | FoxNews.com


ADVERTISEMENT
The "Fast & Furious" scandal is getting messier and messier. New e-mails finally released late this past Friday reveal that the Department of Justice personal viewed the then-secret operation as a way to push for more gun control laws. Despite administration promises to the contrary, whistleblowers have endured "isolation, retaliation and transfer."

Meanwhile the operation's managers have done pretty well, some have even received promotions.

Thursday Attorney General Eric Holder admitted that the operation was "wholly unacceptable," but he still offers absolutely no explanation to explain why the program was instituted.

What's going on here? Let's see...

- You have a government agency ordering gun dealers to make sales to suspected criminals that the dealers didn't want to sell to.

- You have government agents testifying that the being purchased were not being traced. No attempt was made to even alert the Mexican government that the United States of America was given guns to drug gangs in their country.

Up until now the only justification from the Obama administration for this "program" is that the Bush administration supposedly did the same thing with operation "Wide Receiver."

In fact, it is a defense that the Justice Department and Congressional Democrats have raise multiple times. Congressman Elijah Cummings' office just made this defense on Wednesday.

But the "Fast & Furious" and "Wide Receiver" programs are not remotely similar on the most important fact: The Bush administration tried to trace the guns and informed the Mexican authorities when the guns went across the border, but the Obama administration did not.

And it is well-known how ineffective tracing programs have been anyway.

The problem is that if "Wide Receiver" failed in tracing the guns and was subsequently shutdown, why is the solution to not even bother to try tracing the firearms? Holder's conclusion in testimony before Congress was simply: "Guns lost during this operation will continue to show up at crime scenes on both sides of the border."

Would Holder have been as forgiving if a gun dealer had been caught intentionally doing the same thing that the Obama administration has been caught doing?

The new e-mails documenting Justice Department discussions on the political benefits from the "Fast & Furious" program are disturbing and they are only going to give more ammunition to conspiracy theorists for why the Obama administration instituted the program to begin with.

People who haven't trusted the Obama administration on this issue have already pointed out that "Fast & Furious" started pushing guns into Mexico at the same time that the Obama administration was making its inaccurate claims about the United States being a major source of Mexican crime guns.

The new internal messages reveal that in early January this year, a month before there was any publicity about "Fast & Furious," Department of Justice personnel were pointing out: "this case ["Fast & Furious] could be a strong supporting factor [for new regulations] if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

More evidence has also surfaced showing how uncomfortable gun dealers were in selling these guns that they didn't want to sell. One dealer wrote BATF officials in April 2010: "[W]e were hoping to put together something like a letter of understanding to alleviate concerns of some type of recourse against us down the road for selling these items. We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to the bad guys."

Unfortunately, Holders' testimony Thursday didn't make things any clearer. His definition of "lying" depending on one's state of mind sounded positively Clintonian.

But ultimately the Obama administration still faces a bigger problem. Can they ever come up with any remotely plausible explanation for why anyone would have started a program to push untraceable guns into Mexico? The longer it takes to provide an explanation, the more plausible the conspiracy theorists sound that this was all done for politics.

 

 Print      Close
URL
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion

There is absolutely no one better when it comes to gun related research. Most of my stats come from his Crime Prevention Research Center. As far as the ATF goes….


Gym Rat

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 12751
  • Libturdz Love The Caulk
But, but... TRUMP!!   ::) ::) ::)

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63969
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
New data show that ATF’s Operation Fast and Furious just got a lot more scandalous
American Thinker ^ | 28 May, 2024 | Olivia Murray
Posted on 5/28/2024, 2:56:21 PM by MtnClimber

USA Today blames Mexican cartel and Latin America violence on small-time American gun stores, but then says the quiet part out loud.

From Nick Penzenstadler’s exclusive article at USA Today:

Hacked data reveals which US gun sellers are behind Mexican cartel violence

A massive leak of Mexican military intelligence has exposed for the first time in two decades U.S. gun shops and smugglers tied to 78,000 firearms recovered south of the border – and which types of guns are being trafficked.

The nuggets of information are among roughly 10 million records hacked by an anonymous collective known as ‘Guacamaya’ and shared with news outlets by the transparency organization Distributed Denial of Secrets, or DDoSecrets. The Mexican Defense Ministry leak previously made headlines for exposing military corruption and surveillance abuse, and now reveals the trace data on American-sold firearms recovered since 2018.

SNIP

As part of the leak, emails relaying U.S. government data between Mexican military leaders and PowerPoint presentations by Mexico’s attorney general show which American straw buyers were tied to the most weapons as of 2022.



Of the other six top purchasers, half are linked to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives scandal known as Fast and Furious.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...

And again no consequences.