Author Topic: The Iraq Study Group  (Read 3449 times)

BayGBM

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2006, 11:52:40 AM »
Um, if Rumsfeld was the biggest problem, why did Bush and Cheney let him keep his job for 6 years?

If I hire an idiot employee, he is an idiot the first day.  But every day I keep him on staff - even when his actions kill thousands and the world keeps telling me how bad a job he's doing - well, those days are my own fault.

To crap on Rummy after bush backed him for so long is a pussy move.


I posted this some months ago... it seems fitting to repost it here.

In some respects, it’s too late to fire him (and I don’t just mean the 2000+ dead soldiers). 

If you fire him now, you will basically be admitting that he has done a poor job over the last year, or two years, or three years, and the question then becomes, why didn’t you fire him sooner?  In other words, your failure to fire him sooner shows that you (the president) don’t know what you’re doing either.  And that gets people questioning a) your competance, b) what are we doing in Iraq anyway, and c) why haven’t you caught Osama Bin Laden?

If you fire him now, you will clearly be doing so because the people you are supposed to be leading (the generals) have basically risen up against you and Rummy and exposed you as idiots.  Not a good position for a leader to be in.  :-[

If you fire him now, you will be admiting that you have been way behind the curve or out of touch because critics have called for his removal for at least a couple years now.  Why didn’t our “leader” notice the problems years ago? 

Like that Carole King song says, “It’s too late, baby, now it’s too late...”

Dos Equis

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2006, 12:04:22 PM »
Much like Bush... you appear immune to facts.  :-[


Not really.  We just disagree. 

240 is Back

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2006, 12:16:34 PM »
Not really.  We just disagree. 

You will make a statement *(like it was all rummy's fault), then when presented which evidence showing that to be incorrect, you'll just call it a difference of opinion.

Facts are facts.  For the sake of arguments, back up your statements man.

Dos Equis

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2006, 12:18:33 PM »
You will make a statement *(like it was all rummy's fault), then when presented which evidence showing that to be incorrect, you'll just call it a difference of opinion.

Facts are facts.  For the sake of arguments, back up your statements man.

What statements did I make 240?


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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2006, 12:23:28 PM »
What statements did I make 240?

And the biggest problem just resigned a few days ago.     

If the 'biggest problem' is rummy... well, wouldn't the BIGGER problem be Bush, who let Rummy fuck things up for 6 years?

Dos Equis

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2006, 12:31:55 PM »
If the 'biggest problem' is rummy... well, wouldn't the BIGGER problem be Bush, who let Rummy f**k things up for 6 years?

That is an opinion.   ::)  I never liked Rumsfeld.  I've been down on him for years.  In my OPINION, he was a terrible choice.  I'm glad he's gone. 

But I don't judge Bush's entire presidency on a bad cabinet appointment.  Just like I don't consider Clinton's presidency a failure because he nominated Jocelyn Elders.  Or because he had Les Aspen as defense sec., who was arguably responsible for the murder of our boys in Somalia.   

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2006, 12:41:32 PM »
Can't you rate his presidency though Beach?  I mean, you don't feel like theres enough to judge him on yet or?

S

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2006, 12:44:11 PM »
That is an opinion.   ::)  I never liked Rumsfeld.  I've been down on him for years.  In my OPINION, he was a terrible choice.  I'm glad he's gone. 

But I don't judge Bush's entire presidency on a bad cabinet appointment.  Just like I don't consider Clinton's presidency a failure because he nominated Jocelyn Elders.  Or because he had Les Aspen as defense sec., who was arguably responsible for the murder of our boys in Somalia.   

You said the biggest problem was Rummy.

in ANY situation, isn't the bigger problem the guy who sees this problem and lets it remain for a long period of time?  The rotting fish in my fridge might be a big problem... but my inability to clean out the fridge is what allows this problem to continue.

God you stink like like neocon taint.  grow a fucking set man.

Dos Equis

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2006, 12:47:49 PM »
Can't you rate his presidency though Beach?  I mean, you don't feel like theres enough to judge him on yet or?



Sure.  I'll rate him when he's done.  Right now he gets an I (incomplete).  Sort of like asking me to give my students a final grade when I have 22 midterms sitting in my house.  They wouldn't like that too much.   :)   Lets see how he finishes off the remainder of his term and I'll look at everything, e.g., taxes, homeland security, terrorism, the war, home buying, education, health care, etc., etc.     

Dos Equis

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2006, 12:49:11 PM »
You said the biggest problem was Rummy.

in ANY situation, isn't the bigger problem the guy who sees this problem and lets it remain for a long period of time?  The rotting fish in my fridge might be a big problem... but my inability to clean out the fridge is what allows this problem to continue.

God you stink like like neocon taint.  grow a fucking set man.

I cannot explain it any better than I did 240.  If you're not smart enough to figure it out then you should take some more correspondence courses.  HTH.   :) 

240 is Back

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2006, 12:49:35 PM »
BB,

can you rate his first term? ;)

240 is Back

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2006, 12:50:35 PM »
I cannot explain it any better than I did 240.  If you're not smart enough to figure it out then you should take some more correspondence courses.  HTH.   :) 

I'll def sign up for the neocon online training!  :D

in the meantime, what is the bigger problem, the rotting fish in the fridge, or the guy who left it there and won't throw it away?

Dos Equis

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2006, 12:55:35 PM »
BB,

can you rate his first term? ;)

I could, but why?  So you could make some asinine comment?  I'll pass.   :)

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2006, 12:59:58 PM »
Sure.  I'll rate him when he's done.  Right now he gets an I (incomplete).  Sort of like asking me to give my students a final grade when I have 22 midterms sitting in my house.  They wouldn't like that too much.   :)   Lets see how he finishes off the remainder of his term and I'll look at everything, e.g., taxes, homeland security, terrorism, the war, home buying, education, health care, etc., etc.     

Fair enough, but lay off the "neocon taint". (Good one 240)

LOL

S

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2006, 01:10:53 PM »
I could, but why?  So you could make some asinine comment?  I'll pass.   :)

tell me... are you scared to say anything negative about the current admin? you know as an American you are afforded this right - to speak your mind.  You don't have to blindly follow dude.

Dos Equis

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2006, 01:16:16 PM »
tell me... are you scared to say anything negative about the current admin? you know as an American you are afforded this right - to speak your mind.  You don't have to blindly follow dude.

I might . . . if you weren't a few fries short of a Happy Meal. 

240 is Back

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2006, 01:24:01 PM »
I might . . . if you weren't a few fries short of a Happy Meal. 

Right.  My use of evidence, study of world events and history, plain ol' common sense, and an inability to swallow lies make me the idiot here.

 ::)

BayGBM

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2006, 05:25:15 PM »
Neocon Kenneth Adelman: "The most dispiriting and awful moment of the whole administration was the day that Bush gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to [former C.I.A. director] George Tenet, General Tommy Franks, and [Coalition Provisional Authority chief] Jerry [Paul] Bremer—three of the most incompetent people who've ever served in such key spots. And they get the highest civilian honor a president can bestow on anyone! That was the day I checked out of this administration. It was then I thought, There's no seriousness here, these are not serious people. If he had been serious, the president would have realized that those three are each directly responsible for the disaster of Iraq."

Former Bush speechwriter David Frum: "I always believed as a speechwriter that if you could persuade the president to commit himself to certain words, he would feel himself committed to the ideas that underlay those words. And the big shock to me has been that although the president said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas. And that is the root of, maybe, everything."

240 is Back

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2006, 05:46:56 PM »
Neocon Kenneth Adelman: "The most dispiriting and awful moment of the whole administration was the day that Bush gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to [former C.I.A. director] George Tenet, General Tommy Franks, and [Coalition Provisional Authority chief] Jerry [Paul] Bremer—three of the most incompetent people who've ever served in such key spots. And they get the highest civilian honor a president can bestow on anyone! That was the day I checked out of this administration. It was then I thought, There's no seriousness here, these are not serious people. If he had been serious, the president would have realized that those three are each directly responsible for the disaster of Iraq."

Former Bush speechwriter David Frum: "I always believed as a speechwriter that if you could persuade the president to commit himself to certain words, he would feel himself committed to the ideas that underlay those words. And the big shock to me has been that although the president said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas. And that is the root of, maybe, everything."

Those damn liberals.

BayGBM

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Re: The Baker Commission
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2006, 05:24:52 AM »
The Story Behind The Iraq Study Group
How Va. Lawmaker Pushed for Panel
By Lyndsey Layton, Washington Post Staff Writer

On his third trip to Iraq, in September 2005, Rep. Frank R. Wolf (R-Va.) knew the American mission was imperiled.

"We were up in Tikrit and went to a hospital, and it was guarded with guns and security to the point they were pushing weapons into women's faces," Wolf said. "I saw we can't be successful if we're going into an operating room with pistols and weapons."

That's when the congressman from Vienna first began to think about the need for "fresh eyes" to scrutinize U.S. policy regarding Iraq. Quietly, he went to the White House and presented his plan: a bipartisan commission of well-respected policymakers to bore deeply into the Iraq dilemma and recommend solutions.

"If you ordered an Erector Set and you were trying to build it before Christmas and you got stuck and someone else came along, they might just see immediately what needs to be done," Wolf said. "Or if you had a health-care problem, you'd want a second opinion. It's all about fresh eyes on a target."

The result is the Iraq Study Group, led by Republican former secretary of state James A. Baker III and Democratic former congressman Lee H. Hamilton (Ind.), who was a vice chairman of the panel that investigated the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The group has taken on greater relevance after midterm elections marked by widespread voter dissatisfaction with Iraq, and it will play a decisive role in reshaping the U.S. position on Iraq, according to lawmakers and administration officials.

Initially, the White House was cool to the idea, Wolf said. But he was able to win over Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld followed, as did national security adviser Stephen J. Hadley. "Rice's support was key," Wolf said. "But I had to have the support of everybody or there would be no way to do this."

The composition of the study group was also crucial.

"You had to get a group not connected to the administration, people who were not going to be campaigning and who could come to a consensus," he said. "We wanted a bipartisan group, people senior enough that they weren't looking to get placed in a law firm or good job. The test was: Do you love your country?"

The study group, composed of five Democrats and five Republicans, was created in March to assess the situation in Iraq, its impact on the surrounding region and its consequences for U.S. interests. The group's work has been guided by several smaller committees of experts on topics such as the economy and reconstruction, military and security, and political development.

Wolf got Congress to appropriate $1 million for the project. To select the panel's members, he turned to the U.S. Institute for Peace, an independent nonpartisan organization created and funded by Congress. One of its goals is to promote stability after a conflict.

"It's a tremendous dilemma, a difficult situation" in which Congress "was looking for alternatives and the fall election was reinforcing the polarization of attitudes," said Richard H. Solomon, president of the institute. "We were creating the study group to build a political middle."

Wolf said he hopes that the group's recommendations, expected to be delivered to President Bush and Congress next month, will reconnect a nation splintered by war.

"When our country is together, we're strong -- Truman and Roosevelt showed that," he said. "When we're divided, I think the country's going to be in trouble. I hope something good comes from this, that we can develop consensus."