Author Topic: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!  (Read 3611 times)

GoneAway

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TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« on: November 22, 2006, 01:07:03 AM »
You know, the type of mass that you just look at and go "Wow, he's thick!"

Are there any scientificly proven training programs that increase the thickness of all major muscles? That being Chest, Back, Arms, Shoulders and Legs.

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2006, 07:35:01 AM »
juice

dan18

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2006, 10:23:21 AM »
p

GoneAway

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2006, 10:26:05 PM »
Well, I read that low reps push the fibers together, making the muscle more dense, so I'm guessing a low to moderate (at most) rep scheme. Basically like a powerlifter, with the exception of high reps now and then.

I was hoping to find a routine that has worked for people to get really THICK. Perfect example is Arnold's chest in that shot above.

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2006, 04:19:48 PM »
Well, I read that low reps push the fibers together, making the muscle more dense, so I'm guessing a low to moderate (at most) rep scheme. Basically like a powerlifter, with the exception of high reps now and then.

I was hoping to find a routine that has worked for people to get really THICK. Perfect example is Arnold's chest in that shot above.

For complete muscle development you need to hit both fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers.  Thats why its important to mix it up with high and low reps when lifting.  Thats also why 8-12 reps is kinda the benchmark because it exhausts the highest percentage of both muscle fibers.  I think what your hitting on is the need for muscle failure. Thats the only way you will trigger growth, no matter which fibers you are hitting. 

And by the way, its not the routine that makes a person thick......its dieting-well maybe I said that wrong.  You can have a Dorian routine, but if you don't eat you wont grow.  If you don't supply your body with its nutrients to repair the broken down muscle fibers, you will not grow. Thats why dieting is probably the most important aspect of bodybuilding IMO. Focus on your diet rather than your routine and you will be better off.   

GoneAway

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2006, 05:18:46 AM »
For complete muscle development you need to hit both fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers.  Thats why its important to mix it up with high and low reps when lifting.  Thats also why 8-12 reps is kinda the benchmark because it exhausts the highest percentage of both muscle fibers.  I think what your hitting on is the need for muscle failure. Thats the only way you will trigger growth, no matter which fibers you are hitting. 

And by the way, its not the routine that makes a person thick......its dieting-well maybe I said that wrong.  You can have a Dorian routine, but if you don't eat you wont grow.  If you don't supply your body with its nutrients to repair the broken down muscle fibers, you will not grow. Thats why dieting is probably the most important aspect of bodybuilding IMO. Focus on your diet rather than your routine and you will be better off.   

So, going above 12 and below 8 is not good for developing the size of the muscle? I use to use a pyramid like this: 20/10/8/6/2/1 or thereabouts, trying to hit both rep ranges. Didn't notice much change in strength or size.

I figure diet is pretty important. Right now I'm downing 500g of chicken breast per day with moderate carbs and two 40g protein shakes w/ carbs. What do you recommend to eat/consume to fully repear broken fibers? Thanks for all your help so far.

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2006, 08:14:20 AM »
Food, training and being consistnet.  If you are going to train clean, then it will take a lot longer, if not, you can do some pretty amazing things, size wise in 10 weeks

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2006, 08:49:51 AM »
Low rep's DO NOT push the fibers together, making a muscle more dense. No offense, but if any one believes that, they also must be dense. It's about expanding the size of each fiber.

8-12 reps is the standard rep range for the average BB'er. Lot's of men have made gains on this system, but usually not with any outstanding dense muscle development. 8-12 reps does not hit fast (strength) or slow (endurance) twitch muscle fiber all that well in the same workout. If you want thickness than start using compound (two or more joint involvement) with a lower rep range. There is a reason that PL'ers and Olympic lifters tend to have thicker and more rugged development than most BB'er ever will. And gain that in a shorter period of time. 4-6 reps. Partial rep and Power Rack (or both) training can give exceptional results. Many versions of this heavier, lower rep training style.

Some men do 20 or more reps and gain muscle mass when using heavy compound exercises. Usually 1 to 3 sets. Squats, DL's, cleans, etc come to mind. Along with benches, overhead presses, row's, etc. Muscle/weight gains can/do occur. Keep in mind that these are brutal workout and few people want to work that hard. They also involve special breathing patterns and usually a form of the Rest-Pause system.

By all means engage in healthy eating but not to the point where you begin looking like Porky Pig. You want to gain the most pure muscle mass that you can. Not along with a layer of fat to cover any new development gains you worked hard for. You may want to avoid becoming fat dense/thick rather than muscle dense. Just telling someone to eat, eat, eat, may create  a problem in it's self. Good Luck.

 

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2006, 11:07:05 AM »
So, going above 12 and below 8 is not good for developing the size of the muscle? I use to use a pyramid like this: 20/10/8/6/2/1 or thereabouts, trying to hit both rep ranges. Didn't notice much change in strength or size.

I figure diet is pretty important. Right now I'm downing 500g of chicken breast per day with moderate carbs and two 40g protein shakes w/ carbs. What do you recommend to eat/consume to fully repear broken fibers? Thanks for all your help so far.

No, mixing up high and low reps is ideal.....especially when hitting plateaus.  I try and hit 2 weeks at around 10 reps, then a week of light weight with 15-20 reps and the next week heavy at 6-8 reps.  That keeps the muscles on their toes sorta speak.  Your body is extremely adaptable, so you have to be sure to mix up your routine frequently to shock it into growth.  You also have to find out what works best with each muscle.

Dieting really depends on your body.  All I will say is I try and spread my calories and protein evenly through about 6 meals per day.  It is critical to get carbs post workout also, and the only other time I really have carbs is breakfast.  If you wanna get into it deeper I would go to the nutrition board, I can tell you what works for me but that doesnt mean it will work for you.  I will talk to you about it more in depth if you would like.

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2006, 10:05:53 AM »
I always thought you wanted to incorporate both daily?  Interesting...so you switch off weekly?   

What would be a Back Day example for 8-12.....

tbar 8x8?  Sort of like GVT?

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2006, 12:24:00 PM »
I like to incorporate both low rep/high weight 4-6 reps with a high rep/low weight 15-20 reps.  The way I manage to do this is by hitting the gym twice a day which I know is tough for some people, but it works for me.  For example this would be my workout split...

Monday: Bis/Tris high rep/low weight in the am with a 20min run
Legs low rep/heavy weight in the pm and upper abs

Tuesday: Shoulders high rep/low weight in the am with a 20 min run
Chest low rep/heavy weight in the pm and lower abs

Wednesday: Off

Thursday: Legs high rep/low weight in the am (possible run if I'm not burnt out)
Bis/Tris low rep/heavy weight in the pm with upper abs

Friday: Off

Saturday: Chest high rep/low weight in the am with a 20 min run
Shoulders low rep/heavy weight in the pm with lower abs

Sunday: Off

You could combine the am/pm workouts into one, but it gets very tiring if your training all natural, but you might be able to work your body up to it

As for sets I usually do about 5-6 sets for legs which include calves, 3 sets for bis/tris, and 4-5 for shoulders and chest.

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2006, 05:49:33 AM »
GET_BIGGER, replied in the Nutrition Board.

Mysticobra, that sounds like alot of work. How many sets do you do in each session?

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2006, 12:16:32 PM »
It varies on how much energy I have, but usually on the low rep/heavy weight days I do about 4-5 chest, 3 bi, 3 tri, 3-4 shoulders, and 5+ legs including calves.  On high rep/low weight days chest is more like 3-4, 2-3 for bis/tris/shoulders, and 3-4 legs.  Its not for everyone, I have a lot of extra time because I don't work and I just have school.  I just started this type of training a month or so ago and I have noticed very good gains.  Many of my friends thought I was juicing.  My bench went from 300 to 350 within a month or so.  Now I'm not new to weight lifting so I know its not all because of my new workout, but its nice to be well rounded.  Before I used to be able to just bench heavy, but if I wanted to do high reps I would have to use 135lbs.  Now I can rep out 225lbs 20 times.  If you have the time I would say to give it a try.  Its not a workout your going to do for the rest of your life though, thats for damn sure!

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2006, 03:47:34 AM »
Im currently failing around 6-8 reps for upper body, then rest/pausing and going for as many as i can again, might repeat that rest/pause again, before i do a drop set.
So in a kinda way im using lower reps then higher in 1 long set.

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2006, 06:03:29 AM »
It varies on how much energy I have, but usually on the low rep/heavy weight days I do about 4-5 chest, 3 bi, 3 tri, 3-4 shoulders, and 5+ legs including calves.  On high rep/low weight days chest is more like 3-4, 2-3 for bis/tris/shoulders, and 3-4 legs.  Its not for everyone, I have a lot of extra time because I don't work and I just have school.  I just started this type of training a month or so ago and I have noticed very good gains.  Many of my friends thought I was juicing.  My bench went from 300 to 350 within a month or so.  Now I'm not new to weight lifting so I know its not all because of my new workout, but its nice to be well rounded.  Before I used to be able to just bench heavy, but if I wanted to do high reps I would have to use 135lbs.  Now I can rep out 225lbs 20 times.  If you have the time I would say to give it a try.  Its not a workout your going to do for the rest of your life though, thats for damn sure!

do you have an outline of say your chest routine?

Do you think you'd progree even better if you trained 6x-7x a week, but nixed the 2 a days?

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2006, 09:38:07 AM »
Low rep's DO NOT push the fibers together, making a muscle more dense. No offense, but if any one believes that, they also must be dense. It's about expanding the size of each fiber.

8-12 reps is the standard rep range for the average BB'er. 
Agreed; this is a wacky theory. Moderate reps 6-12 for size. Going lower than 6 puts additional stress on the joints.

Lower reps than skew the emphasis more towards strength & carries a needlessly higher risk of injury.

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2006, 11:54:09 AM »
I'm not sure if I would progress faster working out 6-7 days a week.  I know I used to work out 6 days a week and I got bigger, but nothing special.  The reason I like this workout is because I can get a huge workout in, in one week with lots of rest.  I think the 3 days off is key to me growing.  I sleep so much more since I started this workout and I'm always hungry.  To me thats what tells me the workout is working, because my body is wanting more energy to hit the workout again and it wants more rest to keep pushing itself.  As for a routine it really does vary when I get there depending on how am feeling and whats available without waiting.  I actually like going in there without a plan that way I don't do the same thing all the time.  But an overall guideline I follow is on low rep/heavy days I do big heavy compound movements and on high rep/low weight days I do very concentrated movements.  So, for example on a heavy bi day I will do 4 sets of about 6 rep standing barbell curls, then 3 sets of 6 rep incline dumbell curls, and finish it off with 3 sets of 6 rep standing dumbell hammer curls.  On my light day I will do 4 sets of 20 rep preacher curls, 3 sets of 20 rep concentration curls, and some times maybe do buddy curls or 21s.  But, the goal is on heavy days I let my form cheat a little at the end and on light days I work very hard on good form and high reps and focusing all my mind on that muscle rather than the weight.

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2006, 12:03:46 PM »
My chest workout is a little skewed right now, so I wouldn't follow it to a tee because I'm working hard on getting my upper chest to catch up to my lower chest.  When I was younger I didn't work my upper enough and now I'm getting picky and it needs to catch up.  So, right now my chest workouts are like this.

Heavy day: 4 sets of 6 rep incline barbell, same for flat barbell, 3 sets of 6 rep incline fly (I actually do this weird thing that seems to work a little better for me that someone on this board posted, but essentially its incline flys), then I do 3 sets of 6-8 rep dumbell pullovers.

Light day: 4 sets of 20 rep incline dumbell, same for flat, 3 sets of 20 rep cable flys (I stand and have the arms on the machine very low, but not all the way at the bottom and I pull up and out working my upper chest). 

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2006, 06:19:12 AM »
nice...how about back?  Deads ?  Racks?

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2006, 10:20:41 AM »
Try this, as it's helped me out in the past. Your first exercise should be the power movement, like bench press for chest, or like barbell rows for back. Warm up, and do it heavier so that u get only 6 reps out in your max set. after that, do an isolated movement involving dumbells, like incline db presses for chest, or db rows for back. Same thing here, warm up, and go progressively heavier till u only get 6 reps out in your max set. Have a good spotter, that's important too. Then jump to the machines to force the muscle to work. Keep it about 8-10 hard, or forced reps on the machines. And if u like, u can finish with squeezing movements for shape, and lines on a cable machine. Keep the reps high, but hard. I'll give a split example for this routine. Let me know what yous guys think.

exercise/rep scheme

Bench press: 20/15/12/8/6
Incline db presses: 15/12/8/6
Dips: 12/12/10/10
incline hammer strength machine: 12/10/8
hammer strength bench press machine: 12/10/8
High, low cable flyes: 15/15/12/12
Done for chest.

Different day, example back

Barbell rows: 15/12/8/6
One arm dumbbell rows: 12/10/8/6
Deadlifts: 20/15/8/6
machine rows: 12/10/8/8
Cable pulldowns: 15/10/8/8
seated pulley rows: 12/10/10/8
Done for back.
CEA999

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2006, 10:39:06 AM »
Try this, as it's helped me out in the past. Your first exercise should be the power movement, like bench press for chest, or like barbell rows for back. Warm up, and do it heavier so that u get only 6 reps out in your max set. after that, do an isolated movement involving dumbells, like incline db presses for chest, or db rows for back. Same thing here, warm up, and go progressively heavier till u only get 6 reps out in your max set. Have a good spotter, that's important too. Then jump to the machines to force the muscle to work. Keep it about 8-10 hard, or forced reps on the machines. And if u like, u can finish with squeezing movements for shape, and lines on a cable machine. Keep the reps high, but hard. I'll give a split example for this routine. Let me know what yous guys think.

exercise/rep scheme

Bench press: 20/15/12/8/6
Incline db presses: 15/12/8/6
Dips: 12/12/10/10
incline hammer strength machine: 12/10/8
hammer strength bench press machine: 12/10/8
High, low cable flyes: 15/15/12/12
Done for chest.

Different day, example back

Barbell rows: 15/12/8/6
One arm dumbbell rows: 12/10/8/6
Deadlifts: 20/15/8/6
machine rows: 12/10/8/8
Cable pulldowns: 15/10/8/8
seated pulley rows: 12/10/10/8
Done for back.

If it works for u go for it bro, i dont think i could perform that many sets, well!!

davie
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Carmello

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2006, 12:33:55 PM »
Really? Is that alot? I thought it was average because I tend to feel good and pumped at the end of my workouts. Should I cut back on some sets? I don't know cause if I train with lower volume than this, I feel like my muscles are not as full, nor as strong.
CEA999

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2006, 02:44:12 PM »
Really? Is that alot? I thought it was average because I tend to feel good and pumped at the end of my workouts. Should I cut back on some sets? I don't know cause if I train with lower volume than this, I feel like my muscles are not as full, nor as strong.

 I was doing 12 sets for big muscles and 9 for smaller, then i cut down to 8 for big muscles and 6 for smaller, not im on a kind of HIT program which i low volume v intense.

davie
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Lugar

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2006, 08:42:49 AM »
330 1RPM         320      
DEADS               
   REPS      WEIGHT      SETS
0.5   10      160      1
0.6   6      190      1
0.7   4      225      1
0.1   1      320      1
0.85   6      270      4
0.9   4      285-290      4
0.95   2      305      4
0.1   1      320      1
0.6   3      190-195      3

TBAR               
   6      60      1
   6      60      1
.   6      60      1
LAT PULL               
   6      55      1
   6      55      1
   6      55      1

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Re: TRAINING FOR MASS!!!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2006, 12:07:35 PM »
This is kinda staying on the same topic but, im kinda stuck and I seriously need something to just wreck my arms for some thick mass, anybody got any good ideas for a routine for liek 1-2 months????
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