Author Topic: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thread  (Read 10266 times)

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!!
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2006, 10:38:06 AM »
I asked him that a few months ago when i started debating with 240.  He said absolutley no.  He explained to me what happen on that day and why.  It was a little complicated.  But made sense.

I'm still considering everything, but overwhelmingly the evidence in my opinion shows something else happend on 9/11.
S

OzmO

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!!
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2006, 10:42:20 AM »
I'm still considering everything, but overwhelmingly the evidence in my opinion shows something else happend on 9/11.

I agree there is some suspcious things that happened that don;t seem to jive.  But i believe that's mostly becuase people are trying to cover their asses becuase of incompitence.  The idea that the whole thing was a staged inside job is fantasy.

Eyeball Chambers

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!!
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2006, 10:43:04 AM »


Looks like thermite or someones in there running an oxy/acetylene torch?  ???
S

YoMamaBeenLurking

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2006, 10:44:44 AM »
And because this thread has now been "hijacked" by 240 and the 911 nonsense I'm now changing the name.   ::)
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xxxLinda

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!!
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2006, 10:46:00 AM »
I'm still considering everything, but overwhelmingly the evidence in my opinion shows something else happend on 9/11.


that day completely changed my life and I haven't been complacent since.

Nor have I been completely happy or sane.



x

Dos Equis

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2006, 10:46:21 AM »
And because this thread has now been "hijacked" by 240 and the 911 nonsense I'm now changing the name.   ::)

lol.  Who knew?   :)

xxxLinda

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2006, 10:49:02 AM »
you did

ps: toxic alert toxic alert.  Do not go near an English airport.  It's radioactiveness there.

YoMamaBeenLurking

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2006, 10:50:14 AM »
lol.  Who knew?   :)

You would think an important issue like this one could have an unmolested thread, but then again, nowadays almost any topic here can spin into the same recycled arguements over 911.  :P
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xxxLinda

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2006, 10:53:35 AM »
they don't have many skyscrapers in England.


Lots of ports though.  And railways.  The airports will re-open tomorrow?

OzmO

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!!
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2006, 10:54:53 AM »


Looks like thermite or someones in there running an oxy/acetylene torch?  ???

Can you really draw an exact conclusion from a video? 

Are you a thermite expert?

Do you have all the information on all the factors that were going on in that spot that cuased what you saw in the video to happen?


You see Ben, this is why people sometimes can draw false conclusions.

REsearch the pictures of the python that swallowed a person.  They looked real.  they were later proven to be fake. 

xxxLinda

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2006, 10:58:50 AM »




lighten up
xL


landing pad...

YoMamaBeenLurking

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Hugo Chavez

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Apparently a few of the Usual Suspects in General are Clueless as Usual...

I've read a few misconceptions in this thread that this article should straighten up for those who are actually willing to read.  I know a few who are not and will no doubt continue to spew based on their own understanding of things... The last i heard on this was during the summer some time after the ports fiasco so I do not know where things stand on the issue as of today.

Foreign ownership of U.S. airlines?
Bush ready to defy Congress' ban despite pilots' fears of another Dubai ports deal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: July 18, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

The Department of Transportation, acting under President Bush's orders, is preparing to issue an administrative ruling that would open U.S. airlines up to foreign ownership, despite specific prohibitions and warnings from Congress, as well as predictions by pilots that another Dubai ports controversy is in the offing.

The proposed ruling puts the Air Line Pilots Association, or ALPA – the largest airline pilot union in the world representing 61,000 pilots who fly for 40 U.S. and Canadian airlines – at odds with the Bush administration.

The administration is determined to comply with European Union demands presented in the November 2005 "open skies" negotiations. (So-called "open skies" agreements are bilateral or multilateral agreements that liberalize the rules for international aviation markets and minimize government intervention.)

The EU is threatening to delay the signing of an open skies treaty unless the U.S. changes restrictions on the percentage of a U.S. airline that can be foreign-owned. The U.S. currently has 74 bilateral open skies agreements, none of which require any rule changes on the foreign ownership of U.S. airlines.


The Bush administration continues to advocate the EU position, arguing that the Department of Transportation should issue new administrative rules, if necessary, even in direct defiance of Congress.

U.S. pilots have provided WND with copies of draft letters the Air Line Pilots Association has organized.

ALPA is encouraging pilots to write letters and e-mails of protest to Congress, newspapers and national television and radio outlets.

"Do not underestimate the seriousness of this issue!" ALPA has advised, "This is do-or-die, sink-or-swim time."

Some U.S. pilots who have spoken with WND on condition of anonymity expressed concern about job reprisals.

The pilots have argued another Dubai Ports World-type controversy is brewing in which the "Bush administration does not care about selling out key U.S. assets to foreigners." ALPA calls for action echo the alarm:


The writing is clearly on the wall! This Administration wants foreign investors, airlines or otherwise, to pay for the costs of our aviation infrastructure, while risking hundreds of thousands of aviation jobs, the Civil Reserve Air Fleet program (CRAF), and the safety and security of our national airspace. Forty percent of all Air Force Reserve and National Guard pilots are also airline pilots.
ALPA believes the foreign-ownership issue is a fight for survival:


The time to act is now! Together, with every pilot across this country participating in this effort, we can stop this rogue attack on our profession and our industry. There is no issue more important than preventing this NPRM (Notice of Proposed Rulemaking) from moving forward. If the White House is successful in changing the foreign ownership rules through DOT affirmative action, within just a few short years our industry will mirror the maritime industry. Our jobs will no longer exist, our country's ability to militarily act abroad will be handicapped, and our families may no longer be safe in our own airspace!
The ALPA concern concludes with this: "Our country already has a dependence upon foreign oil. Are we going to allow the DOT to make air travel dependent on foreign airlines, too?"

On June 14, in an official statement of administration policy, the Office of Management and Budget in the executive office of the president put out a notice that the Department of Transportation intended to change the foreign ownership rule by issuing a new administrative rule:


The Administration understands that an amendment may be offered to prohibit the use of funds to implement a final rule regarding foreign investment in U.S. airlines. The proposed rule would facilitate a landmark agreement with the European Union that would provide significant benefit to consumers as well as the domestic passenger and cargo airline industry. The Administration has worked with Congress to address concerns with the final rule and recently extended the final comment period by an additional 60 days. The Administration strongly opposes any amendment that would prevent the Department of Transportation from finalizing its rule.
To counter the Bush administration, five congressmen wrote a letter eight days later, June 22, to DOT Secretary Norman Mineta on U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure stationary.

In citing specific congressional prohibitions, the letter noted Congress had taken two specific actions to put the White House on notice that "a major change to the current law regarding foreign ownership of U.S. airlines should be accomplished only by congressional action, not unilaterally imposed by the executive branch."

The letter cited the following congressional prohibitions:


First, the Conference Report on H.R. 4939, Making Emergency Supplementary Appropriations for the Fiscal Year Ending September 30, 2006, includes 'language preventing the Secretary from issuing a final rule regarding foreign control of U.S. airlines for 120 days.' Second, during consideration of H.R. 5576 – the Transportation, Treasury, Housing and Urban Development, the Judiciary, the District of Columbia, and Independent Agencies Appropriations Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (TTHUD appropriations), the House adopted, by an overwhelming vote of 291 to 137, an amendment prohibiting the department from finalizing or implementing the policy proposed in the rulemaking during the next fiscal year.
The letter concluded by reminding Mineta, "the courts have ruled that an executive branch agency does not have authority to interpret a law in a manner inconsistent with the plain meaning of the words of the law."

Signing the letter were Reps. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif.; chairman of the Armed Services Committee; Frank A. LoBiondo, R-N.J.; chairman on the Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation Subcommittee; Ted Poe, R-Texas; James L. Oberstar. D-Minn., ranking Democratic member on the Transportation and Infrastructure Subcommittee; and Jerry F. Costello, D-Ill., ranking Democratic member of the Subcommittee on Aviation.

A major proponent of the rule change has been Under Secretary of Transportation Jeffery Shane, who was quoted on a government Web site in April suggesting Mineta remains "committed to completing this important rulemaking procedure."

Shane also noted the proposed rule "has been the focus of far more controversy in the U.S., frankly, than we had anticipated."



Hugo Chavez

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U.S. Officials Urge Congress Not To Block Airline Investment Rule
U.S.-EU air transport liberalization depends on it, they tell House panel



By Andrzej Zwaniecki
Washington File Staff Writer



Washington -- A "unique" opportunity to reach agreement on liberalizing air transport between the United States and the European Union (EU) is likely to be lost if Congress blocks a proposed regulatory change intended to allow more foreign investment in ailing U.S. airlines, Bush administration officials say.

John Byerly, deputy assistant secretary of state, suggested that the EU has made a long-sought open skies agreement between the two parties conditional on adoption of a proposed Department of Transportation (DOT) rule intended to expand opportunities for foreign citizens to invest in U.S. carriers and participate in their management. (See related article.)

Byerly told a House of Representatives' transportation subcommittee February 8 that the EU's 25 transport ministers will wait for a final rule before they give necessary consent to an agreed text of the agreement at their June meeting.

Some legislators who question the legality and supposed benefits of the proposed change have interjected themselves into the rulemaking process and introduced legislation that would effectively block for a year the issuance of a final rule. Absent congressional action, the final rule is expected to be issued this spring.

Byerly espoused the potential benefits of an open skies agreement with the EU such as expanding open skies rights to all EU members, removing restrictions on access to key European airports, particularly London's Heathrow, and encouraging trans-Atlantic competition and cooperation.

He appealed to lawmakers not to let an opportunity to reach such an agreement with the EU pass. He said that in a year, market and other conditions may change and the opportunity might be lost.

Open skies agreements give airlines of involved countries the right to operate air services from any point in one country to any point in the other, as well as to and from third countries. The United States so far has negotiated 74 bilateral open skies agreements.

At the heart of the controversy is the DOT proposal that would allow foreign investors to enter into investment deals with U.S. airlines giving them power to make operational decisions concerning, for example, rates and routes a carrier serves. The change would apply only to international investors from countries that have open skies agreements with the United States. It would allow similar investments by U.S. citizens in those countries' domestic airlines.

At the same time, the proposal would continue to preclude foreign citizens control over security and safety issues.

At the hearing, members of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Subcommittee on Aviation uniformly questioned not only the rule itself but even the department's authority to issue it.

Transportation Under Secretary Jeffrey Shane, who also testified, strongly defended DOT prerogatives. He said the department has the right to interpret a legal requirement concerning "actual control" of U.S. airlines and that the proposal would not alter that requirement, but change how DOT interprets it.

Current law mandates that U.S. airlines must be under the “actual control” of U.S. citizens to be licensed for operation. For corporations, this means at least 75 percent of the voting interest must be held by U.S. citizens and two-thirds of the directors and officers must be U.S. citizens.

Shane, who presented the proposed rulemaking as part of the department's deregulation agenda, said that substantial structural changes have taken place since the original law was enacted and its narrow interpretation established.

He said that DOT tentatively concluded that its current interpretation of the actual control test has failed to keep pace with those changes by "needlessly" restricting commercial opportunities for U.S. airlines and their ability to compete.

Shane said that U.S. airlines require significant capital investment and therefore should have the "broadest access to global capital markets permitted by law."

Most U.S. cargo and passenger airlines support the change; labor unions oppose it.

Subcommittee members expressed concern that increased power of foreign nationals to influence managerial decisions could pose risk to national defense and security.

But Shane assured them that his department had consulted the Defense Department about its intentions and encountered no objections.

The text of Shane’s prepared testimony is available on the DOT Web site.

Background information on the hearing is available on the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Web site.

http://usinfo.state.gov/eur/Archive/2006/Feb/09-211270.html

YoMamaBeenLurking

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2006, 11:18:31 AM »
Thank you Berserker for finding this info  :)
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Hugo Chavez

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On June 14, in an official statement of administration policy, the Office of Management and Budget in the executive office of the president put out a notice that the Department of Transportation intended to change the foreign ownership rule by issuing a new administrative rule:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/OMB/legislative/sap/109-2/hr5576sap-h.pdf

Hugo Chavez

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To counter the Bush administration, five congressmen wrote a letter eight days later, June 22, to DOT Secretary Norman Mineta on U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure stationary

https://crewroom.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx?itemid=3933&ModuleId=1316&Tabid=256

Hugo Chavez

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2006, 11:21:48 AM »
Thank you Berserker for finding this info  :)
No Problemo  :)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!!
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2006, 11:24:27 AM »
Ignore the NORAD tapes.
correction, Ignore Jokers ;)

a_joker10

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2006, 11:33:58 AM »
Presently the ownership cap is set at 25%.
Open skies is a separate issue.
http://usinfo.state.gov/eur/Archive/2005/Nov/04-486855.html

“The proposed rule would allow international investors more say in some aspects of airline operations, but retain current domestic ownership and labor protections in U.S. airlines,” Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta said in a November 2 DOT press release.

The department will accept public comments on the proposal for 60 days after its publication in the Federal Register. DOT must review and consider the comments prior to issuing a final rule, which might differ from the proposal. No changes can take effect until a final rule is adopted.

The proposal was released as the Bush administration seeks to conclude a long-stalled open-skies agreement with the European Union, which has raised objections to the U.S. restriction on foreign ownership of U.S. airlines.

The administration previously proposed increasing the foreign ownership cap to 49 percent from 25 percent, but to date Congress has shown no interest in considering that change.

The press release and the full text (PDF, 31 pages) of the proposal are available on the DOT Web site.

Z

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*IF* it was nothing more than a coverup for incompetence, then we should know that too.

That means the same people who let hijacked airliners fly unfettered on 9/11 for over an hour, are still holding those same highly important jobs.

But I have watched, read, and researched for 8 months now.  I tried so many ways to explain how it could have just been those 19 guys.  But it wasn't.   It saddens me greatly to think about it.  It really sucks.  I don't blame anyone who prefers their bliss to the stress that comes with believing it.  But until they have a second investigation, test the damn metal (why the fuck they refused - this speaks volumes), I will still believe what I do.

Everyone is free to believe what they wish. I just encourage everyone to do a little research before they criticize this viewpoint.  I have a degree in history and an MBA with econ, and it still took a lot of time before I would accept it, even given historical evidence of false flag ops and the economic necessity of 911.  So for someone without those backgrounds (and with the same pro-repub stance I used to have) it might take longer.  Who knows.  

YoMamaBeenLurking

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2006, 11:38:45 AM »
*IF* it was nothing more than a coverup for incompetence, then we should know that too.

That means the same people who let hijacked airliners fly unfettered on 9/11 for over an hour, are still holding those same highly important jobs.

But I have watched, read, and researched for 8 months now.  I tried so many ways to explain how it could have just been those 19 guys.  But it wasn't.   It saddens me greatly to think about it.  It really sucks.  I don't blame anyone who prefers their bliss to the stress that comes with believing it.  But until they have a second investigation, test the damn metal (why the f**k they refused - this speaks volumes), I will still believe what I do.

Everyone is free to believe what they wish. I just encourage everyone to do a little research before they criticize this viewpoint.  I have a degree in history and an MBA with econ, and it still took a lot of time before I would accept it, even given historical evidence of false flag ops and the economic necessity of 911.  So for someone without those backgrounds (and with the same pro-repub stance I used to have) it might take longer.  Who knows. 

Nice southpark episode last night  :-X   :)
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a_joker10

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2006, 11:42:32 AM »
*IF* it was nothing more than a coverup for incompetence, then we should know that too.

That means the same people who let hijacked airliners fly unfettered on 9/11 for over an hour, are still holding those same highly important jobs.

But I have watched, read, and researched for 8 months now.  I tried so many ways to explain how it could have just been those 19 guys.  But it wasn't.   It saddens me greatly to think about it.  It really sucks.  I don't blame anyone who prefers their bliss to the stress that comes with believing it.  But until they have a second investigation, test the damn metal (why the f**k they refused - this speaks volumes), I will still believe what I do.

Everyone is free to believe what they wish. I just encourage everyone to do a little research before they criticize this viewpoint.  I have a degree in history and an MBA with econ, and it still took a lot of time before I would accept it, even given historical evidence of false flag ops and the economic necessity of 911.  So for someone without those backgrounds (and with the same pro-repub stance I used to have) it might take longer.  Who knows. 

Thats good I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering.
How can a recession be good for the national economy
http://www.democrats.com/node/5397/print
Z

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2006, 11:43:53 AM »
Nice southpark episode last night  :-X   :)

Hey 240 is it hard to run your company when every few minute the "911 alarm" goes off and you have to slide down your batpole and into your fortress of truth and righteous indignation?   ;D

YoMamaBeenLurking

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Re: First our ports, now our airspace!!! Caution this is now a Hijacked 911 thr
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2006, 11:47:00 AM »
Hey 240 is it hard to run your company when every few minute the "911 alarm" goes off and you have to slide down your batpole and into your fortress of truth and righteous indignation?   ;D

ROFLMAO with a bass under one arm and his baby boy under the other  ;D
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