Author Topic: Sergio 1976 - 1985  (Read 41404 times)

realkarateblackbelt

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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #250 on: December 17, 2006, 06:14:52 PM »
Sergio, is of a latino of African descent. There you have it. In America he would be called "the black guy".

And no, Arnold is not a god. God's do not admit that one has superior genetics as Arnold did with Flex Wheeler. Yet Flex is neither a god. The Ideal bodybuilding God has not been found yet. 

I agree with the first statement. That's what I've been saying forever.

I disagree with the second statement. Arnold is god because of all he accomplished in life. Not just bodybuilding alone. It's hyperbole sure, but whatever lol.
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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #251 on: December 17, 2006, 06:25:31 PM »
Yes, Arnold is God, we've established that. But that's not the argument ;D


ND, you throw the word development around without defining it. Sergio had great sweep to his lats and was very thick, you say. But somehow it lacked Arnold's development. Please define this term. Likewise with calves etc.

Sorry, but everything you've posted so far that criticises Sergio comes under the umbrella group of Sergio. Yes, Sergio had crappy abs at his high bodyweight. Yes, his quads lacked detail compared to Arnold. Yes, his calves lacked detail to Arnold.

However, this was as a result from having poor conditioning, not from somehow not having the muscle there, or the shape.

You can't penalise him twice, once for saying he has poor overall conditioning and definition, and once for then also saying his quads lacked definition and conditoning.

Sergio lacked conditioning compared to Arnold. Arnold's chest was also better. Some prefer Arnold's bis.

That's about it.

Okay you want a definition?

Arnold's clearly has better separation in his traps when viewed from the back , he shows much clearer definition of the teres major & minor and the infraspinatus  as with the calves Arnold's show better development & separation of the gastrocnemius inner & outer heads

Now poor conditioning isn't going to solve everyones problems , you think if Sergio dieted down some more the development of his rectus femoris will magically appear? Sergio never really showed great upper quad separation this is a result of developing the muscle in the first place and then having the right conditioning to highlight it , the conditioning would help with muscles that are visable already like his seratus and his abdominals which were developed when he was lighter , but Sergio couldn't replicate his conditioning at 220 pounds at 240 pounds and Arnold's conditioning actually improved the bigger he got.

Sergio looked better with size and he would have killed Arnold with size & great conditioning but that wasn't the case , Sergio had fantastic proportions and balance which many have matched to this day while retaining an amazingly small waist , Sergio was responsible for the way he showed up on contest day , he had to find a balance between size and conditioning and he did in 1972 but he still lost instead of letting that loss get to him ( if it was legit or not ) he should have drove himself to the end of the Earth to create a package that the judges just couldn't deny , Ronnie almost lost in 2001 and 2002 and he was talking a lot of heat and he did what he had to silence everyone in 2003 .

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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #252 on: December 17, 2006, 06:26:33 PM »
Logical" keeps making straw man arguments.

do you even know what a strawman argument is?

realkarateblackbelt

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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #253 on: December 17, 2006, 06:41:14 PM »
Okay you want a definition?

Arnold's clearly has better separation in his traps when viewed from the back , he shows much clearer definition of the teres major & minor and the infraspinatus  as with the calves Arnold's show better development & separation of the gastrocnemius inner & outer heads

Now poor conditioning isn't going to solve everyones problems , you think if Sergio dieted down some more the development of his rectus femoris will magically appear? Sergio never really showed great upper quad separation this is a result of developing the muscle in the first place and then having the right conditioning to highlight it , the conditioning would help with muscles that are visable already like his seratus and his abdominals which were developed when he was lighter , but Sergio couldn't replicate his conditioning at 220 pounds at 240 pounds and Arnold's conditioning actually improved the bigger he got.

Sergio looked better with size and he would have killed Arnold with size & great conditioning but that wasn't the case , Sergio had fantastic proportions and balance which many have matched to this day while retaining an amazingly small waist , Sergio was responsible for the way he showed up on contest day , he had to find a balance between size and conditioning and he did in 1972 but he still lost instead of letting that loss get to him ( if it was legit or not ) he should have drove himself to the end of the Earth to create a package that the judges just couldn't deny , Ronnie almost lost in 2001 and 2002 and he was talking a lot of heat and he did what he had to silence everyone in 2003 .

but Sergio had big arms! LMAO. "Logical" is finished.

Sergio didn't even have better size. Dieted down like Arnold how big do you think he would be?
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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #254 on: December 17, 2006, 06:52:38 PM »

Sergio was a guy with big arms, unusually small waste, and average everything else. Oh, and powerlifter thighs.  ;D


Average everything else ??? Are we talking about the same Sergio Oliva here ?.




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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #255 on: December 17, 2006, 06:54:05 PM »
but Sergio had big arms! LMAO. "Logical" is finished.

Sergio didn't even have better size. Dieted down like Arnold how big do you think he would be?

Arnold was always way more ripped then THE MYTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #256 on: December 17, 2006, 07:27:08 PM »
Average everything else ??? Are we talking about the same Sergio Oliva here ?.






Smoother than a Johnny Jackson guest posing session. Not impressive.
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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #257 on: December 17, 2006, 07:28:38 PM »
Arnold was always way more ripped then THE MYTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






Exactly. Arnold was the whole package. Some people are easily impressed by big arms and a small waste. As if that's all it takes. Arnold knew what it takes to be the best and brought it contest time.
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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #258 on: December 17, 2006, 07:32:43 PM »
I know he posts a pic from 84 when Sergio was way off and thats supposed to hightlight his great ab development.  ???

Looks like ND and his ass kissing click is taking over the thread. Pics are hard to find of Sergio. If you have, then why don't you post them.

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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #259 on: December 17, 2006, 07:33:19 PM »
Average everything else ??? Are we talking about the same Sergio Oliva here ?.








("Logical" think Sergio had a better chest. Tells you what we're dealing with.)


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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #260 on: December 17, 2006, 07:35:48 PM »
Looks like ND and his ass kissing click is taking over the thread. Pics are hard to find of Sergio. If you have, then why don't you post them.

Yes, the Arnold supporters have taken over!

As if he needs our help.

8 Time MR. O!

Pics of Sergio are hard to find because Arnold was more impressive and had bigger more defined muscles. But I welcome you to post the two onstage competing against each other. Sergio is dwarfed!
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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #261 on: December 17, 2006, 07:40:43 PM »
Yes, Arnold is God, we've established that. But that's not the argument ;D


ND, you throw the word development around without defining it. Sergio had great sweep to his lats and was very thick, you say. But somehow it lacked Arnold's development. Please define this term. Likewise with calves etc.

Sorry, but everything you've posted so far that criticises Sergio comes under the umbrella group of Sergio. Yes, Sergio had crappy abs at his high bodyweight. Yes, his quads lacked detail compared to Arnold. Yes, his calves lacked detail to Arnold.

However, this was as a result from having poor conditioning, not from somehow not having the muscle there, or the shape.

You can't penalise him twice, once for saying he has poor overall conditioning and definition, and once for then also saying his quads lacked definition and conditoning.

Sergio lacked conditioning compared to Arnold. Arnold's chest was also better. Some prefer Arnold's bis.

That's about it.

Explain? ND doesn't have to explain. He knows everything. lol. now you know why so many people are getting so irritated of this guy. He swears he knows everything and in reality he knows little. Now I know why people warned me to don't get into a thread war with this guy. He claims to be an expert. Yeah, great expert. ::) :-X

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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #262 on: December 17, 2006, 07:44:42 PM »
The experts said Arnold was better and awarded him the Mr. Olympia
title.



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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #263 on: December 17, 2006, 07:49:11 PM »







THE MYTH DISPELLED!
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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #264 on: December 17, 2006, 08:07:29 PM »







THE MYTH DISPELLED!

These pics of Arnold are fantastic if you want to prove that these two greats were as good as each other. These do nothing to prove that Arnold is WAY more impressive than Sergio. They match each other shot for shot.

SERGIO!!!!
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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #265 on: December 17, 2006, 08:15:35 PM »
hahahahahahahahahaah

Arnold is obviously more massive and defined.

He's on another level.
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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #266 on: December 17, 2006, 08:23:49 PM »

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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #267 on: December 17, 2006, 08:38:24 PM »
sure ::)




Good work, you found 3 of the 10 good pictures of Sergio.TAKE A LOOK AT THIS GENETIC GOD!!!!!!!!!!!










Sergio never got this ripped. Sergio never could touch this.





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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #268 on: December 17, 2006, 08:46:38 PM »
Good work, you found 3 of the 10 good pictures of Sergio.TAKE A LOOK AT THIS GENETIC GOD!!!!!!!!!!!








damn, those shots prove he is blessed by the genetic gods. Any pics of Arnold at that age to compare?

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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #269 on: December 17, 2006, 08:50:25 PM »
Okay you want a definition?

Arnold's clearly has better separation in his traps when viewed from the back , he shows much clearer definition of the teres major & minor and the infraspinatus  as with the calves Arnold's show better development & separation of the gastrocnemius inner & outer heads

Now poor conditioning isn't going to solve everyones problems , you think if Sergio dieted down some more the development of his rectus femoris will magically appear? Sergio never really showed great upper quad separation this is a result of developing the muscle in the first place and then having the right conditioning to highlight it , the conditioning would help with muscles that are visable already like his seratus and his abdominals which were developed when he was lighter , but Sergio couldn't replicate his conditioning at 220 pounds at 240 pounds and Arnold's conditioning actually improved the bigger he got.

Sergio looked better with size and he would have killed Arnold with size & great conditioning but that wasn't the case , Sergio had fantastic proportions and balance which many have matched to this day while retaining an amazingly small waist , Sergio was responsible for the way he showed up on contest day , he had to find a balance between size and conditioning and he did in 1972 but he still lost instead of letting that loss get to him ( if it was legit or not ) he should have drove himself to the end of the Earth to create a package that the judges just couldn't deny , Ronnie almost lost in 2001 and 2002 and he was talking a lot of heat and he did what he had to silence everyone in 2003 .


This all comes down to better conditioning. Unless you're a freak-mutant, we all have the same muscles distributed over the body- you don't create new muscles as you get bigger. If you can't see a muscle, it's because you aren't conditioned or ripped enough to show it. You don't need to have ever visited a gym to show ripped quads with all four heads or striated and separated pecs.

No one's making excuses for Sergio's shape- that's a straw man. Sergio's conditioning was rubbish compared to Arnold, end of story. However, conditioning and superior pectorals, plus money-biceps does not equal an olympia physique when the guy standing next to him is almost flawless. Sergio was better balanced and proportioned than Arnold- it's pretty obvious really, for the same reason that Cormier and Ray were better balanced than Wheeler. Arnold's chest was too good for a number of other bodyparts- eg, his shoulders- whereas Sergio's was in proportion with the development of the rest of his physique.

I've listed Arnold's flaws earlier in this thread. No one has argued against them, so I take that it's undisputed. Sergio did not have as many flaws as Arnold- most of his are down to conditioning. That's all.

Seriously, I've not said anywhere that Arnold had a shitty physique. Arnold was awesome, but this is a comparitive debate. I've merely pointed out his flaws, as flaws are as important as what you do have when making a comparison.

To say that Sergio was a guy only with arms as realkarateblackbelt is just boggles the mind- it really detracts from the overall credibility of his posts.

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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #270 on: December 17, 2006, 08:53:10 PM »


Good work, you found 3 of the 10 good pictures of Sergio.TAKE A LOOK AT THIS GENETIC GOD!!!!!!!!!!!










Sergio never got this ripped. Sergio never could touch this.







A minute ago you were whinging that someone had dared to dig up a few sub-par pictures of Arnold.

Monster consistancy.

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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #271 on: December 17, 2006, 08:55:08 PM »


("Logical" think Sergio had a better chest. Tells you what we're dealing with.)


DOMINATION!




I never said that- I said it was contentious.


You think Sergio was only arms. Tells you what I'm trying to deal with ::)

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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #272 on: December 17, 2006, 08:56:41 PM »
damn, those shots prove he is blessed by the genetic gods. Any pics of Arnold at that age to compare?


Yeah Sergio looked great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Check out them smooth powerlifter quads. Biceps with zero shape and arms much to large for his physique!!! Top it off with sub par condition and you can see why he lost to Arnold. Do you think having a head that small is the reason he look so gigantic?


Again, Sergio could never touch this.




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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #273 on: December 17, 2006, 09:00:51 PM »

Yeah Sergio looked great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Check out them smooth powerlifter quads. Biceps with zero shape and arms much to large for his physique!!! Top it off with sub par condition and you can see why he lost to Arnold. Do you think having a head that small is the reason he look so gigantic?


Again, Sergio could never touch this.






No, Arnold looks fantastic in the front double bi at his best, and probably better than Sergio, although Sergio has much better quad sweep, he also has a long torso that detracts- a la Lee Priest.

There are a couple of other mandatories though. ::)

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Re: Sergio 1976 - 1985
« Reply #274 on: December 17, 2006, 09:01:06 PM »

A minute ago you were whinging that someone had dared to dig up a few sub-par pictures of Arnold.

Monster consistancy.


I did this because neo posted picture from 81 against some of Sergio in his best form  ::)


Monster paying attention