ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!

[Bluto]

Didn't make any difference in winning, because as Nubret has confirmed here on getbig, Schwarzenegger was protected/"sponsored" and wasn't going to lose if he showed up in shape.

The only difference might've been a physical improvement, just as Oliva got in his best shape in '72. That could have happened from the shock of trying any new program that was effective, especially being driven by an intense trainer like Jones & machines Oliva thought were often more effective than weights, but HIT was at least part of the equation. Other programs that were untired might've helped as well.

that's nubrets opinion and just that.

[pumpster]

that's nubrets opinion and just that.

No it's Nubret's, Oliva's & that of the majority of top BBs who left the IFBB in the early 80s because of hijinks-Padilla, Mentzer, Szkalak, Robinson, etc. vs. "Bluto's" unquestioning mainstream opinion as spoon fed to him over the years through Weider's publications and Pumping Iron.

[Palpatine Q]

pretty much everyone that knows metzer or has read his stuff or followed his career will tell you the same thing:  he was f'n nuts at the end with some of his concepts.  he just took everyhting so f'n far that they started to not make sense in the end, I'm assuming you're quoting him from the video he did right before he died....I've heard that he was pretty much whacked out of his mind at that time.  A younger Mike metzer's writing and stuff was alot better read and made alot more sense. 

I know dude it just struck me how he jumped on the dude for the rep not BEING EXACTLY 4 SECONDS. that made me LOL.

It's obvious the guy is completely shot, pretty sad to see actually.

IMO.......H.I.T. is just another way to lift weights. The lifting of the weights being far more important than the exact stlye in which you lift them. But it's good to have different training philosophies for people to adhere to, they are like toys for our hobby. No one wants to play with the same toy all the time.

[Bluto]

No it's Nubet's, Oliva's & that of the majority of top BBs who left the IFBB in the early 80s because of hijinks, vs. "Bluto's" unquestioning mainstream opinion as spoon fed to him over the years through Weider's publications and Pumping Iron.

this is a pointless discussion, just most of the ones you participate in (dorian vs ronnie comes to mind)

arnold won everything. had no need to change, rather if he would've - he would probably end up winning less because of risk of injury being higher.

yates on the other hand, with his balls to the wall macho training, would've benefited training differently.

next.

[pumpster]

It's obvious the guy is completely shot, pretty sad to see actually.

Funny how much that's obsessed on when it's irrelevant.

IMO.......H.I.T. is just another way to lift weights. The lifting of the weights being far more important than the exact stlye in which you lift them. But it's good to have different training philosophies for people to adhere to, they are like toys for our hobby. No one wants to play with the same toy all the time.

Which makes the reaction to it here amusing. It's just another approach. No friggin' way should it be attacked without trying it for a decent amount of time in the way it's supposed to be done.

[pumpster]

this is a pointless discussion, just most of the ones you participate in (dorian vs ronnie comes to mind)

arnold won everything. had no need to change, rather if he would've - he would probably end up winning less because of risk of injury being higher.

yates on the other hand, with his balls to the wall macho training, would've benefited training differently.

next.

Then get your worthless ass off this thread if you don't comprehend that it's more than reciting history, can't handle new ideas and want to do nothing but whine, as usual.

[UK Gold]

He used a modified version of HIT, after studying HIT and befriendin with & training with Mentzer, genius. hahaahahahahahahahahah

Added way more sets and training days - thus completely changing it. I will say this one more time: Dorian said on many occaisions that HIT did not stimulate his muscles fully and he needed more sets. Are you claiming that Dorian didn't know what he was saying?

One thing is for sure, neither Dorian, Mentzer or Arnold ever used a fucking bowflex.

[pumpster]

Added way more sets and training days - thus completely changing it. I will say this one more time: Dorian said on many occaisions that HIT did not stimulate his muscles fully and he needed more sets. Are you claiming that Dorian didn't know what he was saying?

One thing is for sure, neither Dorian, Mentzer or Arnold ever used a fucking bowflex.

I'll bet your dumb ass that Yates or Mentzer or Oliva would be open to trying one in the exact same way they were open to machines, because they're not stuck in 1948 with a free weight obsession as you are, genius. An openness to new approaches is what they and i will always have over dummies like you.LOL

No one except you thinks of Yates' program as anything other than modified HIT-even Yates says this, as does our genius "Bluto" here.

[Palpatine Q]

Added way more sets and training days - thus completely changing it. I will say this one more time: Dorian said on many occaisions that HIT did not stimulate his muscles fully and he needed more sets. Are you claiming that Dorian didn't know what he was saying?

One thing is for sure, neither Dorian, Mentzer or Arnold ever used a fucking bowflex.

What's wrong with a Bowflex?

Is it imaginary resistance?

I'm sure they have all tried one out or used one in a pinch with all the traveling they do, Especially Arnold

[pumpster]

What's wrong with a Bowflex?

Is it imaginary resistance?

hahahahaah Maybe 2/3s of BBs prove that they are pinheads by espousing only free weights. In part a macho-man thing let's face it. Never ceases to amaze the stupidiy of it.

[Bluto]

Then get your worthless ass off this thread if you don't comprehend that it's more than reciting history, can't handle new ideas and want to do nothing but whine, as usual.

new ideas? where?

[UK Gold]

I'm beginning to see why ND and Sucky get so pissed off at you Pumpster. You ignore facts and spout spout nothing but delusional bullshit.

Bowflex is for people that are to scared / skinny / fat / ugly / poor or intelligent enough to use real weights in a real gym.  

[Bluto]

pumpster's got way too much time on his hands.

[Palpatine Q]

Bowflex is for people that are to scared / skinny / fat / ugly / poor or intelligent enough to use real weights in a real gym. 

Or perhaps they see it for what it is....a resistance training machine. Before you start callng me a pussy.....i do go to a gym and have for the last 20 years, BUT if i had no options and wanted to work out I'd use the damn thing no problem.

[UK Gold]

Or perhaps they see it for what it is....a resistance training machine. Before you start callng me a pussy.....i do go to a gym and have for the last 20 years, BUT if i had no options and wanted to work out I'd use the damn thing no problem.

They're fine if you're disabled or have some kind of mental deficiency. You are less inclined to hurt yourself on a bowflex than with real weights.

 I apologise Pumpster. It must be tough having Downs Syndrome in an uncaring world. Train hard on that bowflex, become strong. you can do it!!!

[Bluto]

i think pumpster said it himself that it's important to try new things, so mixing it up going from the bullworker to the bowflex, is a big chance in his training regime 

[pumpster]

i think pumpster said it himself that it's important to try new things, so mixing it up going from the bullworker to the bowflex, is a big chance in his training regime 

Something "Bluto" at 155 lb. soaking wet, should consider in between Stallone & Seagal ball-worshipping sessions.

[pumpster]

I'm beginning to see why ND and Sucky get so pissed off at you Pumpster. You ignore facts and spout spout nothing but delusional bullshit.

Bowflex is for people that are to scared / skinny / fat / ugly / poor or intelligent enough to use real weights in a real gym.  

I'm not the only one here who's wondering why you're obsessing on someone you don't know & about Bowflexes. LOL Unless you have ADD focus on the thread, don't worry about me.

[davie]

DOrian did use a variation of HIT .... that being HIgh intensity training. There are many variations of this, mentzers, arthur jones style, dorians style, trevor smith style.

All of which take the fundamentals of very very hard work in a short period of time. Working with lower volume and at least positive failure.

HIT doesnt mean one set routine, just like volume doesnt mean doing exactly 15 sets a body part. there are variations of both!!

It comes down to different strokes for different folks. Because you might not like a training style, or do not want to try it, does not mean it doesnt work.
I have done high volume in the past and didnt like it that much, that  doesnt mean it doesnt work.

davie

[UK Gold]

I'm not the only one here who's wondering why you're obsessing on someone you don't know & about Bowflexes. LOL Unless you have ADD focus on the thread, don't worry about me.

So people are PMing you asking why I keep on mentioning the boflex? Ha ha ha, try again 'Pumpster'

DOrian did use a variation of HIT .... that being HIgh intensity training. There are many variations of this, mentzers, arthur jones style, dorians style, trevor smith style.

All of which take the fundamentals of very very hard work in a short period of time. Working with lower volume and at least positive failure.

HIT doesnt mean one set routine, just like volume doesnt mean doing exactly 15 sets a body part. there are variations of both!!

It comes down to different strokes for different folks. Because you might not like a training style, or do not want to try it, does not mean it doesnt work.
I have done high volume in the past and didnt like it that much, that  doesnt mean it doesnt work.

davie

You could just as easily say that Dorian used a variation of volume training - less sets and more intensity

[pumpster]

No one's obsessed with Bowflexes other than you & your buddies Beavis & Butthead. You're all class with the company you keep. hahahaahahahhaah

No one else makes your silly claim about it being a variation of volume training-consider this a wake-up call on your warped perspectives.

[natural al]

he did win everything of importance. and so whatever other roads he could've take, it would serve no purpose.

yates on the other hand, who quit due to injury, could've benefiting following a different road.

and here you are criticizing arnold, who had nothing to win changing.
and defending yates, who had everything to win changing.
 

I think you've got me confussed with someone else, I never said a bad word about arnold all I said was I "read" he was lazy when he went to the nautilus facility to train.  I don't know if he was lazy or not, the mags seem to say he wasn't, others say he was....I wasn't there so I don't know but I know weider had a hard on for jones  and arnold wrote some articles bashing him when he got back or something like that so who knows what really went down.

Dorian did modify aspects of his training once he tore his bi..

[pumpster]

I think you've got me confussed with someone else, I never said a bad word about arnold all I said was I "read" he was lazy when he went to the nautilus facility to train.  I don't know if he was lazy or not, the mags seem to say he wasn't, others say he was....I wasn't there so I don't know but I know weider had a hard on for jones  and arnold wrote some articles bashing him when he got back or something like that so who knows what really went down.

Dorian did modify aspects of his training once he tore his bi..

Actually there's no confusion: any questioning of Schwarzenegger is an attack according to defensive nuthuggers.

[natural al]

to bad this thread died so fast it was pretty damn fun......

[Cap]

Actually there's no confusion: any questioning of Schwarzenegger is an attack according to defensive nuthuggers.

But when the man accomplished more than Oliva and Viator and Mentzer, his methods should be deserving of some praise and not just be sluffed aside as a Weider lap dog.