Author Topic: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag  (Read 3129 times)

mightymouse72

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2007, 04:57:52 AM »
Couldn't agree with you more.  The Confederate flag (all its incarnations), at its root, is a symbol of the CSA cause.  Most people think that cause was slavery, but it states rights.  Slavery was a peripheral issue, and only made an issue because of the U.S. government's insistance that the federal powers trumped state powers.  Slavery was just a way for one side to demonize another.  How else could lifelong friends kill each other, kill fellow countrymen?  The sad truth is that the Confederate flag will always be viewed with disdain by the masses because to them the Confederate flag will ALWAYS be synonymous with slavery -- and a good chunk of the folks that LIKE the Confederate flag are racists.  People are idiots all over.  It is easier to remove the object of derusion and scorn than try to correct perceptions.

beautifully said.

i am a member of the SCV and i find disgraceful when people use the flag as a racist symbol.   and as long as it is used by the KKK and skinhead nazi's it will always be viewed as such.

if we forget our past, our future doesn't stand a chance.
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Hedgehog

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2007, 06:41:24 AM »
bottom line, this is Biden stirring shit for personal gain.  Yes there is some of a racism issue but it's flat out wrong to say everything behind that flag is racist and a mistake in my opinion because it empowers the symbol for that use.  A few years back, Jesse Jackson was saying that western civilization needed to be destroyed.  That is the ancient tenants of the west, of the European people, that white/light is good and black/dark is evil and everything born of it must die.  There, it's the approach, vilifying a people's ancient cultural beliefs.  When he did that he empowed factions that would put meaning in that toward blacks.  Way way wrong approach.  I guarantee he sent more people toward racism by attacking the cultural beliefs of European disendants.  The confederate flag and the confederacy is an important part of American history, I personally see no issue with a state that doesn't hide a very important past.  I just think it's a huge mistake to vilify the flag again, it will do nothing but empower everything wrong with it when it could just as easily be turned benign and made a historical symbol of a painful time in American history for all Americans to claim, black, red and white.  Exactly what should have been done with the swastika, it should have been encouraged for the traditional uses, returned to the people, where those uses presented themselves, but the swastika as a negative symbol became more powerful after WWII for both hate and political purposes--that's disgusting...

With the mississippi flag, the key note to make in my opinion is it is a PART of the flag just as it is an undeniable part of the history of mississippi, it is not THE FLAG...

I know my thinking is radical in this area but I come to this thinking with a good understanding of how a wave of political energy can be used by opposing forces like an akido master would use the force of his opponent against him.

Very good points you're making.

I have to admit you're making sense, and that I may change my stance on this issue.

The key is obviously to refuse to censor the issue doesn't exist.

An open discussion is what the dark forces of anti-democracy fear.

Beautiful point made about Jesse Jackson too, definitely understand what you mean.

We have a similar problem in Sweden with multiculturalism, the higher crime rate of immigrants being a taboo topic for the media and the politicians for many years, paving the way for a few right-wing extremists.

Only when the established parties and the mainstream media brings up the topic and discusses it without holding back, will the right-wing extremists be kept at bay.

-Hedge
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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2007, 06:58:06 AM »
another thing... priorities.

We're shipping 21,500 men to iraq this month and Biden is spending the first weeks of a majority congress dealing with a cosmetic domestic issue.  It's about 150th on the list of things he should be worrying about in the next 2 years.  The soldiers dying for a "maintenance" war should rank higher.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2007, 07:06:05 AM »
Very good points you're making.

I have to admit you're making sense, and that I may change my stance on this issue.

The key is obviously to refuse to censor the issue doesn't exist.

An open discussion is what the dark forces of anti-democracy fear.

Beautiful point made about Jesse Jackson too, definitely understand what you mean.

We have a similar problem in Sweden with multiculturalism, the higher crime rate of immigrants being a taboo topic for the media and the politicians for many years, paving the way for a few right-wing extremists.

Only when the established parties and the mainstream media brings up the topic and discusses it without holding back, will the right-wing extremists be kept at bay.

-Hedge
I think you hit on a key point missing from my thinking and that's communication.  None of this works without honest purposeful discussion.  well said!

Dos Equis

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2007, 07:47:56 AM »
beautifully said.

i am a member of the SCV and i find disgraceful when people use the flag as a racist symbol.   and as long as it is used by the KKK and skinhead nazi's it will always be viewed as such.

if we forget our past, our future doesn't stand a chance.

But isn't that precisely what a state is doing if they adopted the flag as a state symbol to protest the end of segregation? 

mightymouse72

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2007, 11:07:06 AM »
But isn't that precisely what a state is doing if they adopted the flag as a state symbol to protest the end of segregation? 


i can't debate that point because i've never heard the arguement of the CF put in those terms.

i'm not sure what you mean by "adopted" the flag.  would a state outside the confederacy adopt the confederate flag?
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Dos Equis

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2007, 11:26:35 AM »

i can't debate that point because i've never heard the arguement of the CF put in those terms.

i'm not sure what you mean by "adopted" the flag.  would a state outside the confederacy adopt the confederate flag?

You probably know a lot more about this than me, but my understanding is some of these states didn't incorporate all or part of the confederate flag until the 1950s and 1960s to protest things like Brown v. Board and the changing civil rights laws.  If true, then I have a problem.  I don't have a problem with a state honoring confederate soldiers, but I'm not sure that's why these symbols were adopted. 

mightymouse72

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2007, 11:35:35 AM »
You probably know a lot more about this than me, but my understanding is some of these states didn't incorporate all or part of the confederate flag until the 1950s and 1960s to protest things like Brown v. Board and the changing civil rights laws.  If true, then I have a problem.  I don't have a problem with a state honoring confederate soldiers, but I'm not sure that's why these symbols were adopted. 

i honestly have never heard of that.  i will try to do some research on that when i get home this evening.


here's a story that really chapped my hide. 

the city leaders where i live removed the confederate flag from the entrance of a confederate cemetary where soldiers are buried. 

 :'(
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Dos Equis

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2007, 11:38:27 AM »
i honestly have never heard of that.  i will try to do some research on that when i get home this evening.


here's a story that really chapped my hide. 

the city leaders where i live removed the confederate flag from the entrance of a confederate cemetary where soldiers are buried. 

 :'(

Ridiculous. 

Option D

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2007, 11:45:52 AM »
I'm normally extremely sceptical towards celebrities making political statements, but...

Morgan Freeman, an actor, also a political activist, has two issues he pushes, YEAR ROUND:

1. Get rid of the confederate flag in state flags

2. Get rid of the Black History Month


I agree with him 100% on both these issues.

-Hedge
Me too. There aint a white history month or an asian history month. If we get rid of these damn special considerations we will be looked as equals. IMO

Im not sure why freeman thinks so but thats my rational on black history month...shit we need to learn everyones history year round.

The funniest thing is Sonny Purdue..He said before he got into office in Ga that he would keep the confiderate flag to get the redneck vote...as soon as he got in he changed it..LMAO  the hicks cant stand him either but they wont dare put a dem in office.

brianX

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2007, 05:32:40 PM »
I wouldn't say that Mississippi has a part of the flag that is similar.

A part of the state flag looks straight like the confederate flag. Please enlighten me on the differences between the original and the one appearing on the Mississippi state flag.



BTW, your comparison to the swastika is a good one IMO. It shows what the problem is all about.

Even if the confederate flag in itself isn't evil or picked to represent racist values, it may be a symbol for most people of apartheid and even slavery in the USA.

Think about it for a moment: In the confederate states, slavery was allowed.

That flag represents the confederate states.

Anyone can claim that the confederate state flag is about being anti-government et al. But why not pick an anarchy flag or something that can't be related to racism? ???

IMO, it's an easy choice.

-Hedge

Slavery was allowed in the northern states throughout the war, and the Confederacy didn't kill millions of people like the Nazis did.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2010, 08:14:05 AM »
Just watched an episode of Stephen Fry in America where he was talking to a black woman in the south about the confederate flag.  He asked if she was offended when she saw the confederate flag displayed.  She said absolutely not, that many of her students displayed the confederate flag and she was their favorite teacher.  She took it as more of a symbol of southern heritage and history.  I tried to find a clip of the segment but couldn't, but that's basically what she said.

24KT

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2010, 12:17:55 AM »
Just watched an episode of Stephen Fry in America where he was talking to a black woman in the south about the confederate flag.  He asked if she was offended when she saw the confederate flag displayed.  She said absolutely not, that many of her students displayed the confederate flag and she was their favorite teacher.  She took it as more of a symbol of southern heritage and history.  I tried to find a clip of the segment but couldn't, but that's basically what she said.

After traveling in filthy boxcars for days on end, ...alot of Jews welcomed the opportunity to take a shower too  ;)

On person's opinion isn't necessarily an intelligent one, let alone the definitive answer on an issue.
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Cy Tolliver

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2010, 12:31:18 AM »
It's a disgrace that these states still keep the confederate symbol in their State flag.

Nothing short of a disgrace.

It's not a Democrat-Republican issue either.

Legislators needs to wake the fcuk up and show some spine.

-Hedge

wtf why  ???
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Cy Tolliver

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2010, 12:34:11 AM »
Even if the confederate flag in itself isn't evil or picked to represent racist values, it may be a symbol for most people of apartheid and even slavery in the USA.

Think about it for a moment: In the confederate states, slavery was allowed.

That flag represents the confederate states.

Anyone can claim that the confederate state flag is about being anti-government et al. But why not pick an anarchy flag or something that can't be related to racism? ???


im being completely honest saying this

thats the most ignorant statement ive read on this board ever political board

wtf lol
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2010, 12:54:00 AM »
After traveling in filthy boxcars for days on end, ...alot of Jews welcomed the opportunity to take a shower too  ;)

On person's opinion isn't necessarily an intelligent one, let alone the definitive answer on an issue.
a little overkill of a statement imo...  I don't think everytime you see a confederate flag there are murdering black hating whites behind it lol...

Some will get upset at this but I also think it's stupid that the "swastika" should endure for eternity as a symbol of the nasis.  We all know the history of that symbol is way bigger than that.  Yes scumbag nazis still use it today, it's just kinda silly that it will only be remembered for that. 

The Civil War is part of American history.  The south is not Nazi Germany.  They were not sending blacks in trains to be melted away in the showers.

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Re: Biden calls for removal of Confederate flag
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2010, 05:59:39 AM »
Being from/in the South all of my life, other than in the military, I always find it laughable when people OUTSIDE the south.....or even country, jaguar....want to tell people what the flag represents.  Symbols and flags can represent many things to many people, just like Hugo said in regards to the swastika....so how about let the people who display it decide?