Iraqi Army is worthless

[BRUCE]

why does no one listen?

We conquered Ger, italy, and Japan in less time than we have taken to stalemate in Iraq.  This is not an accident.  it isn't because they're just so good with their AKs and IEDs and we're so lousy with our large guns, airpower and satellite intel.

We are losing because the military planners don't give them enough resources to win.

And why would they not give enough (even when they've had the blank check for 4 years?)

Because once we win, WE HAVE TO LEAVE.

And if we leave before the oil pipeline is built, we don't get to manage their oil.

This should be crystal clear to people.  It's a MAINTENANCE war.  WHy do you think the EXACT same thing is happening in Afghanistan?  Are they ALSO so much smarter and better than our forces?  Are you starting to see a pattern here?  We can't beat shitty nations.  Why?

Cause we have to put the oil pipeline in both countries for long term US vitality.  Accept it.  And please, STFU already with your treehugging rationale of "we wanted to Free them!"  cause the US gives a rats ass about iraqi civilians.  Our soldiers might - but those military planners could care less.

Afghan and Iraq (and possibly iran) will all be the same - stalemates til the pipeline is complete, then *suddenly* we'll achieve victory.  Pathetic that some of you still use fairy tale reasons that the US would spend hund of billions and thousands of our own forces' lives just to help someone out.  Doesn't happen.

Why would an administration that won't be in power to see this come to fruition (in your opinion) desire this?

[240 is Back]

Why would an administration that won't be in power to see this come to fruition (in your opinion) desire this?

Ah, because this goes beyond dems or repubs.

It's about long-term strategic interests. 

if we have that oil, china and russia will not be able to get their hands on it, and they won't be able to grow into a second superpower.  We will dominate the world economy and we will  be able to continue living the way we enjoy.

Bush and Cheney started negotiating with the taleban for that pipeline in 95, 5 years before clinton left office.  The parties play for the same side when it comes to this.  If Obama or hilary pull our men out, they'll still be there at the pipeline building.  It'll just be harder to sell why we're there.

Don't get me wrong - I support what we're doing - putting in the pipeline and controlling the oil.  but I don't support idiots saying it's not about oil.  Cause they are living in a dream world.  In the real world, energy is the reason govts exist.

[beatmaster]

bush made business with canada to get oil from them, they invested a lot of money to extract oil from sands, i guess bush knows he's not gonna get what he wants... specialist said that bush worry that oil from oversea will be harder and harder to get.

[240 is Back]

bush made business with canada to get oil from them, they invested a lot of money to extract oil from sands, i guess bush knows he's not gonna get what he wants... specialist said that bush worry that oil from oversea will be harder and harder to get.

the US has a sexy oil reserve now.  OPEC keeps cutting production and guess what, the fckers can't affect prices!

Yes, part of it is global warming making it 80 in december (so ppl buy less heating oil).  But part of it is the fact we're somehow *obtaining* large quantities of oil.  I can't tell you where it's from cause they don't discuss those things.  but the US wins, which is cool with me.

[Jeff Miller]

Here's the other thing.....I left in 03 after about 7 months. I did a job i was trained years for. We're shooting from the hip on the insurgency thing.  I am very reluctant to comment on the ground situation in Iraq because I get what anybody else gets. The war changes from month to month but the media does not report the good we do. I'm sure some Iraqi's take it pretty hard and fight well but stories like this aree all to common. As for Jeff and his 73 easting comment..look man that might be the last great tank battle for the M1 so we all sorta hang on to it. I'm not a Striker sorta guy.

Understand, but its important to qualify your statements -- everyone is entitled to their opinions, but some opinions are better and more informed than others.

I'm a tanker, too.  Trained for the big tank fights; hell I was OPFOR at Irwin for 2.5 years fighting and maneuvering every month.  Tanks have their place (they will always be valued for their shock value), but they have a limited role in what we are doign now.  And we are NOT shooting from the hip on fightign a counterinsurgency -- we have merely forgotten how to do it.  We fought a counterinsurgency for almost 100 years on the western frontier against the Native Americans.  Germany, Japan, etc. -- all irrelevant to what we are doign now.

If we left the Iraqis, they would go back to how they used to do things -- using BRUTAL means to get the desired ends.  Its a brutal culture that respects brutality and force.

[gtbro1]

headhunter I bitch and gripe about the war as much as anyone...but just so you know(not that you really care ) I support you and the troops 100%. I just think you are there for the wrong reasons,that's all.You and the other soldiers have my utmost respect...You talk about the insurgents being cowards and not fighting you guys head on...well, can you blame them? Sounds like their way is the smart way.I mean....if I had to fight Matt Hughes(hahahaha yeah right) do you think I would fight him toe to toe...man to man? fuck no! Everyone knows he would kill me. I would use a gun a knife a ball bat...whatever it took to survive and hopefully win.(providing he didn't take my gun away,cram it up my ass and fire it.) but you get the point.

[GroinkTropin]

MOSt insurgents are Iranian?

Dude, I would LOVE to see you back up that silly ass statement with some numbers!!!

We are finding more and more iranians in iraq fighting with the insurgents daily, I would have to assume if you shoot 100 iranians dressed as civilians, most of the time they just all look like arabs and get mixed in.

[headhuntersix]

Understand, but its important to qualify your statements -- everyone is entitled to their opinions, but some opinions are better and more informed than others.

I'm a tanker, too.  Trained for the big tank fights; hell I was OPFOR at Irwin for 2.5 years fighting and maneuvering every month.  Tanks have their place (they will always be valued for their shock value), but they have a limited role in what we are doign now.  And we are NOT shooting from the hip on fightign a counterinsurgency -- we have merely forgotten how to do it.  We fought a counterinsurgency for almost 100 years on the western frontier against the Native Americans.  Germany, Japan, etc. -- all irrelevant to what we are doign now.

If we left the Iraqis, they would go back to how they used to do things -- using BRUTAL means to get the desired ends.  Its a brutal culture that respects brutality and force.

I'm headed to CAC next so we'll see. I agree we have lost our ability to fight an insurgency but we were doing pretty well in Vietnam after 69' or so. Anyway thats ur war. I won't be headed back to Iraq for atleast two years and it will have changed a million times by then.

[240 is Back]

We are finding more and more iranians in iraq fighting with the insurgents daily, I would have to assume if you shoot 100 iranians dressed as civilians, most of the time they just all look like arabs and get mixed in.

can't assume that.

[gtbro1]

can't assume that.

I think if I were there I would kill anyone not American just to be safe.   How can you defeat an enemy who is willing to blow themselves up for their cause?

[240 is Back]

I think if I were there I would kill anyone not American just to be safe.   How can you defeat an enemy who is willing to blow themselves up for their cause?

from what soldiers have posted on boards, there HAS been a lot of that - just shredding buildings they suspect have one shooter and taking out dozens of innocents - and no one on the boards, at least here, is bitching. We understand that happens.

For him to say "most" of the insurgents are iranian (when it's only recently been announced some of them are - to fit Bush's war agenda) is inaccurate.  most are, in fact, remnants of the disbanded army who are still working together in an organized fashion.