Pelosi to Bush: You're not the decider on Iran

[youandme]

What constitutes "very short term emergency basis"? What is that defined?

When the commander-in-chief claims authority to send in the armed forces when he deems necessary.

Congressional control is then asserted, in terms of funding appropriations.

If that's in fact true how can we be in a "Police Action" for nearly half a decade and not have it declared a War? If it's the job of Congress to demand Bush ask for a Declaration of War then why haven't they? I know they were Republican controlled until recently but that's not really an excuse now is it?

Remember the term "Declaration of War" is not even mentioned in the US Constitution, the Constitution says "Congress shall have the power to ... declare War, ..." without defining the form such declarations will take. Bush has some smart people behind him, they now the laws, and they re-write them

[tu_holmes]

congress let them take the funds.  nam only ended when congress cut funding.  congress could have done that minute one by disallowing any money, so white house would have been crippled after 90 days but didn't.

I always thought it ended because the North Vietnamese finally captured Hanoi.

Oh wait... maybe it was that HUGE anti-war stance people were having...

I have never seen where Congress cut funding for the Military during that time.

[ribonucleic]

no one is buying his iran plan. 

Therein lies what small hope we have...

What finally dug Tick Nixon out of the White House was enough of the elite, realizing that their rackets would actually get fu#ked with if this shit went on much longer, starting the wave of pressure that eventually led to the needed number of senators for an impeachment vote against him.

The various mega-industries that pay protection money to Presidential candidates aren't stupid - despite how much we may laugh at the transparency of their greediness. They know that $6.00 a gallon gas and international pariah status is going to be, you know, bad for business. So as they started to realize with terror the full implications of their having picked a Christianist ventriloquist's dummy to wear The Suit - i.e. "Oh my God. This fraternity retard with his finger on the Big Red Button actually believes that shit." - I suspect that there were some real-power-lunch conversation along the lines of "Who do we know on the Hill who's willing to listen to sit down and have a serious conversation about stabilizing the situation?" 

The only question now is if there will be enough of them.

Sad to say, that's just how the power goes. While that plays out, I'm going to get some milk and donuts.

[240 is Back]

I always thought it ended because the North Vietnamese finally captured Hanoi.
Oh wait... maybe it was that HUGE anti-war stance people were having...
I have never seen where Congress cut funding for the Military during that time.

\
Total U.S. withdrawal
Further information: Watergate scandal
In December 1974, the Democratic majority in Congress passed the Foreign Assistance Act of 1974, which cut off all military funding to the South Vietnamese government and made unenforceable the peace terms negotiated by Nixon. Nixon, threatened with impeachment because of Watergate, had resigned his office. Gerald R. Ford, Nixon's vice-president stepped in to finish his term. The new president vetoed the Foreign Assistance Act, but his veto was overridden by Congress.

[youandme]

I always thought it ended because the North Vietnamese finally captured Hanoi.

Oh wait... maybe it was that HUGE anti-war stance people were having...

I have never seen where Congress cut funding for the Military during that time.

Funding was cut in 73 after the massive crazy bombings in Cambodia. After that congress put together the War Power Act, that says it requires the president to seek congressional approval for war within 90 days of deploying troops.

[240 is Back]

ahhh good deal.

i'm all for presidents being able to quickly bomb a threat before the congressional glue slows down the process.

It sounds like Bush "intends to do something about" Iran. 

[ieffinhatecardio]

Funding was cut in 73 after the massive crazy bombings in Cambodia. After that congress put together the War Power Act, that says it requires the president to seek congressional approval for war within 90 days of deploying troops.

We must be coming up on the 90 day mark any day now in Iraq.

[240 is Back]

We must be coming up on the 90 day mark any day now in Iraq.

\

they gave dubya a blank check thanks to the intel from the CIA which was fudged by Doug Feith in the pentagon, then sold to america by cheney/rice on meet the press.

[youandme]

We must be coming up on the 90 day mark any day now in Iraq.

Haha few more days and counting.

[GroinkTropin]

So basically the liberal mindset is that no country should have to face any consequences for breaking international rules? So when kim jong kicked out UN weapons inspectors, said fuck you we are going to build nukes and do with them as we please, nobody should do anything? So you vote for a global free for all? Iran has been told not to make nukes, they are a dangerous country, you libs are basically saying it's ok to let them build nukes and possibly use them on our troops and israel? When exactly should we act then? After being attacked?

[tu_holmes]

So basically the liberal mindset is that no country should have to face any consequences for breaking international rules? So when kim jong kicked out UN weapons inspectors, said f**k you we are going to build nukes and do with them as we please, nobody should do anything? So you vote for a global free for all? Iran has been told not to make nukes, they are a dangerous country, you libs are basically saying it's ok to let them build nukes and possibly use them on our troops and israel? When exactly should we act then? After being attacked?

If you fight them after they attack, you are defending yourself... If you attack first, you are an aggressor...

Isn't this thread about whether bush is in his right to engage military action? You're mixing talking points.

[Dos Equis]

If you fight them after they attack, you are defending yourself... If you attack first, you are an aggressor...

What about preemptive strikes? 

[tu_holmes]

What about preemptive strikes? 

If you have definitive proof, I guess that's ok, but I don't think we're there at this point...

Still not the point about whether Bush is in his rights as Commander in Chief... which I think he is.

[240 is Back]

What about preemptive strikes? 

can be abused when presidents target oil rich nations.  See: Iraq. 

[Dos Equis]

If you have definitive proof, I guess that's ok, but I don't think we're there at this point...

Still not the point about whether Bush is in his rights as Commander in Chief... which I think he is.

I agree.  Pelosi is wrong.

[GroinkTropin]

If you have definitive proof, I guess that's ok, but I don't think we're there at this point...

And I assume in your morning briefings you have obtained enough information from your generals to come to this conclusion correct?

[GroinkTropin]

If you fight them after they attack, you are defending yourself... If you attack first, you are an aggressor...

Isn't this thread about whether bush is in his right to engage military action? You're mixing talking points.

The prez is the commander in chief, he can initiate military action however congress controls the flow of money...

[tu_holmes]

And I assume in your morning briefings you have obtained enough information from your generals to come to this conclusion correct?

How is this about me or what information I have?

It's about whether "W" can command military personnel to attack a group of people without congressional OK.

The simple answer is... He can.

[GroinkTropin]

How is this about me or what information I have?

It's about whether "W" can command military personnel to attack a group of people without congressional OK.

The simple answer is... He can.

Of course, who disuputes this?

[tu_holmes]

Of course, who disuputes this?

Read through the thread... that's what it's about... apparently some people are disputing this.

I'm not sure why.

[240 is Back]

Read through the thread... that's what it's about... apparently some people are disputing this.

I'm not sure why.

short term, he is the decider thru immediate action unilaterally as he chooses.
long term, congress decides thru funding approvals.