Author Topic: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina  (Read 22301 times)

OzmO

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2007, 04:40:16 PM »
I don't think Christian conservatives try to censor anything sexual.  They just advocate taking a different approach to teaching sex ed (i.e., abstinence over condoms). 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right

read under issues:

Opposition to sex education classes in public schools. A spectrum of views exist, from

    * advocation of no sex education in public schools to
    * advocation of abstinence to
    * advocation of chastity in concert with cautions about the purpose of advertising

i probably could dig up more stuff elsewhere but i don;t have the motivation for it.

OzmO

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2007, 04:41:18 PM »
No I would say that catering to the audience of parents with younger children falls under the category of keeping age-inappropriate material from children... that falls under the heading of sexuality-based censorship. I would lump that with sex education.  Political correctness refers to a precept that one group of people should not be made to feel less than others.

ok,  makes sense.


(that's what i really meant  ;D)

Deedee

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2007, 04:43:23 PM »
ok,  makes sense.


(that's what i really meant  ;D)

Lol!  ;D

Dos Equis

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2007, 04:48:10 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right

read under issues:

Opposition to sex education classes in public schools. A spectrum of views exist, from

    * advocation of no sex education in public schools to
    * advocation of abstinence to
    * advocation of chastity in concert with cautions about the purpose of advertising

i probably could dig up more stuff elsewhere but i don;t have the motivation for it.


So the spectrum of views (according to the person who compiled this information) ranges from "no sex education," to teaching abstinence, to "chastity" and "cautions."  The "no sex education" part supports the point you just made, but not the rest.  Abstinence, chastity, etc. are forms of sex education.

I think we might have different definitions of sex ed?  I think teaching a kid about sex, but giving them certain rules (for instance, wait till you’re married), is sex ed.  

OzmO

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2007, 04:54:18 PM »
So the spectrum of views (according to the person who compiled this information) ranges from "no sex education," to teaching abstinence, to "chastity" and "cautions."  The "no sex education" part supports the point you just made, but not the rest.  Abstinence, chastity, etc. are forms of sex education.

I think we might have different definitions of sex ed?  I think teaching a kid about sex, but giving them certain rules (for instance, wait till you’re married), is sex ed. 


yep  perhaps we have different definitions,

I'm just saying that not allowing someone to say vagina sounds like something the religious right would do. It doesn't sound like something the liberal left would do.

Dos Equis

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2007, 05:01:46 PM »
yep  perhaps we have different definitions,

I'm just saying that not allowing someone to say vagina sounds like something the religious right would do. It doesn't sound like something the liberal left would do.

Not allowing someone to say vagina is stupid.

I think you're assuming abstinence education means you don't talk about sex.  I'm not sure how other parents do it, but I have very explicit, abstinence-based sex education discussions with my kids.  Haven't had the birds and bees talk with my little one (her day is coming soon), but the other three know what everything is, how everything works, how and why people have sex, etc. 

Deedee

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2007, 05:22:32 PM »
btw... not sure if you guys are aware of what the Vagina Monologues are all about. I loved it, most women do,  :D  but I can see where the school might have some misgivings about how the material was handled.

I Was Twelve, My Mother Slapped Me: a chorus describing many young women's and girls' first menstrual period.

My Angry Vagina, in which a woman humorously rants about injustices wrought against the vagina, such as tampons, douches, and the tools used by OB/GYNs

My Vagina Was My Village, a monologue compiled from the testimonies of Bosnian women subjected to rape camps.

The Little Coochie Snorcher That Could, in which a woman recalls memories of traumatic sexual experiences in her childhood and a self-described "positive healing" sexual experience in her adolescent years with an older woman. In the original version, she is 13, but later versions would change her age to 16. This particular skit has sparked numerous controversies and criticisms due to its content (see below).

The Woman Who Loved to Make Vaginas Happy, in which a dominatrix for women discusses the intriguing details of her career and her love of giving women pleasure. In several performances it often comes at the end of the play, literally climaxing with a vocal demonstration of a "triple orgasm."

Because He Liked to Look At It, in which a woman describes how she came to love her vagina because of a sexual experience with a man who was in awe of vaginas.

I Was There In The Room, a monologue in which Eve Ensler describes the birth of her granddaughter.

Dos Equis

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #82 on: March 07, 2007, 05:32:45 PM »
Dude . . . .  :-X 

I remember the one and only time one of my girls asked me a question about her menstrual cycle.  I told her:  "talk to the hand.  I don't do periods.  Go talk to your mother."   :)

Deedee

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #83 on: March 07, 2007, 05:36:45 PM »
Dude . . . .  :-X 

I remember the one and only time one of my girls asked me a question about her menstrual cycle.  I told her:  "talk to the hand.  I don't do periods.  Go talk to your mother."   :)

Lol!  I got the same from my father.

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #84 on: March 07, 2007, 06:00:13 PM »
I don't think Christian conservatives try to censor anything sexual.  They just advocate taking a different approach to teaching sex ed (i.e., abstinence over condoms). 

christian conservatives as a group are not really in a position to censor anything in society at large but they do use their various groups to exert pressure to push their view about sex and sexuality on society.   

Here's one example from a couple of years ago:

Conservative Christians Protest Movie on Kinsey

Focus on the Family, the Colorado-based broadcasting empire of psychologist James Dobson, has been working for nearly two years -- ever since it learned that director Bill Condon was planning to make the film -- to enlist scholars outside the evangelical Christian community to help "debunk" Kinsey's research, Hamrick said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2472-2004Nov21.html



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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #85 on: March 07, 2007, 07:24:45 PM »
christian conservatives as a group are not really in a position to censor anything in society at large but they do use their various groups to exert pressure to push their view about sex and sexuality on society.   

Here's one example from a couple of years ago:

Conservative Christians Protest Movie on Kinsey

Focus on the Family, the Colorado-based broadcasting empire of psychologist James Dobson, has been working for nearly two years -- ever since it learned that director Bill Condon was planning to make the film -- to enlist scholars outside the evangelical Christian community to help "debunk" Kinsey's research, Hamrick said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2472-2004Nov21.html

Shocking. This post would seem to directly refute the point that Christian Conservatives don't try to sensor anything sexual.

Truly truly shocking.

Straw Man

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #86 on: March 07, 2007, 08:38:39 PM »
Shocking. This post would seem to directly refute the point that Christian Conservatives don't try to sensor anything sexual.

Truly truly shocking.

Here's some christ inspired advice from Dr. Dobson on how to make sure your kid doesn't grow up to be gay:

"Meanwhile, the boy’s father has to do his part. He needs to mirror and affirm his son’s maleness. He can play rough-and-tumble games with his son, in ways that are decidedly different from the games he would play with a little girl. He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger"

24KT

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #87 on: March 07, 2007, 08:48:54 PM »
He'd get faster results from giving his a Playboy mag.  ;D
w

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2007, 09:24:37 PM »
Here's some christ inspired advice from Dr. Dobson on how to make sure your kid doesn't grow up to be gay:

"Meanwhile, the boy’s father has to do his part. He needs to mirror and affirm his son’s maleness. He can play rough-and-tumble games with his son, in ways that are decidedly different from the games he would play with a little girl. He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger"

WTF. Is that real or is that a parody?

I hope it's a parody.

Straw Man

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #89 on: March 07, 2007, 09:31:10 PM »
WTF. Is that real or is that a parody?

I hope it's a parody.

that is completely f'ng real

here's the link:  http://www.focusonthefamily.com/docstudy/newsletters/A000000264.cfm

you need to scroll down to ~ the middle of the page (at least that's how it appears on my monitor)


ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #90 on: March 07, 2007, 09:50:52 PM »
that is completely f'ng real

here's the link:  http://www.focusonthefamily.com/docstudy/newsletters/A000000264.cfm

you need to scroll down to ~ the middle of the page (at least that's how it appears on my monitor)



OMG, you were right, it's completely real.  :o

Reading that made me a little sick to my stomach. I can't even fathom anyone thinking that idiocy is real.

The title is just, WOW. "Can Homosexuality Be Treated and Prevented?"


Straw Man

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #91 on: March 07, 2007, 10:16:05 PM »
OMG, you were right, it's completely real.  :o

Reading that made me a little sick to my stomach. I can't even fathom anyone thinking that idiocy is real.
The title is just, WOW. "Can Homosexuality Be Treated and Prevented?"



try to fathom millions of Americans listening to this guy's advice on all sorts of topics

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #92 on: March 07, 2007, 10:29:30 PM »
try to fathom millions of Americans listening to this guy's advice on all sorts of topics

A sad and pathetic flock of sheep following the sheep herder.

I still can't get over that title. As if homosexuality is an ear infection or a head cold. Something that a little medicine can cure or a little preventative action can stop from happening.

Pound a square peg into a square hole with your son? Take a shower with your son so that he can see your penis is bigger than his? WTF.

There are some effed up people living in this world.

Dos Equis

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #93 on: March 07, 2007, 10:34:18 PM »
christian conservatives as a group are not really in a position to censor anything in society at large but they do use their various groups to exert pressure to push their view about sex and sexuality on society.   

Here's one example from a couple of years ago:

Conservative Christians Protest Movie on Kinsey

Focus on the Family, the Colorado-based broadcasting empire of psychologist James Dobson, has been working for nearly two years -- ever since it learned that director Bill Condon was planning to make the film -- to enlist scholars outside the evangelical Christian community to help "debunk" Kinsey's research, Hamrick said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2472-2004Nov21.html


I don't blame him.  This is a good thing.  Dr. Dobson disagrees with Kinsey and wants to provide alternative evidence.  Providing an alternative viewpoint, pointing our junk science, and/or "debunking" research certainly isn't censorship. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #94 on: March 07, 2007, 10:42:03 PM »
Here's some christ inspired advice from Dr. Dobson on how to make sure your kid doesn't grow up to be gay:

"Meanwhile, the boy’s father has to do his part. He needs to mirror and affirm his son’s maleness. He can play rough-and-tumble games with his son, in ways that are decidedly different from the games he would play with a little girl. He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger"

And the problem with this is . . . ?  Boys and girls are different.  You cannot raise them the same way.  He's absolutely right about that.  Most people who have sons and daughters understand this.  I use very different approaches with my son and daughters.   

But I did teach my son how to use an iron and ironing board for the first time tonight.  How gay is that?   :-\

And regarding homosexuality, I think (with admittedly no scientific support), a boy's relationship with his father plays a huge role in the boy's development, masculinity, and possibly homosexuality.  I think the lack of a strong father in the home is responsible for a host of problems, including increased crime, the lack of civility, the almost complete disappearance of true gentlemen . . . possibly increased homosexuality.     

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #95 on: March 07, 2007, 10:42:42 PM »
I don't blame him.  This is a good thing.  Dr. Dobson disagrees with Kinsey and wants to provide alternative evidence.  Providing an alternative viewpoint, pointing our junk science, and/or "debunking" research certainly isn't censorship. 

what if the alternative viewpoint is even junkier science?

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #96 on: March 07, 2007, 10:44:04 PM »
try to fathom millions of Americans listening to this guy's advice on all sorts of topics

lol.  Tell me about it.   :D  I listen to him all the time, like millions of other Americans.  I've read his books.  He's terrific.  I don't always agree with him (e.g., the Terry Schiavo matter), but he has been real blessing to me as a parent.  We're lucky to have him.  

Dos Equis

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #97 on: March 07, 2007, 10:44:37 PM »
what if the alternative viewpoint is even junkier science?

Present them both. 

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #98 on: March 07, 2007, 10:44:52 PM »
And the problem with this is . . . ?  Boys and girls are different.  You cannot raise them the same way.  He's absolutely right about that.  Most people who have sons and daughters understand this.  I use very different approaches with my son and daughters.   

But I did teach my son how to use an iron and ironing board for the first time tonight.  How gay is that?   :-\

And regarding homosexuality, I think (with admittedly no scientific support), a boy's relationship with his father plays a huge role in the boy's development, masculinity, and possibly homosexuality.  I think the lack of a strong father in the home is responsible for a host of problems, including increased crime, the lack of civility, the almost complete disappearance of true gentlemen . . . possibly increased homosexuality.     

nothing is gay about learning how to use an iron

who said it was gay?

did you shower with your son so he could be sure to see that your penis was larger than his .... and therefore.... be straight?

Straw Man

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Re: Schoolkids gets shut out: Vagina
« Reply #99 on: March 07, 2007, 10:46:20 PM »
Present them both. 

who says there are just two? 

and how will we decide the hierarchy of value?

I know how I would but what if you don't agree?