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Author Topic: How We Define Gender In Hawaii  (Read 10962 times)
Dos Equis
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« on: March 14, 2007, 09:49:15 AM »

Our legislature has codified the following definition of gender:

"Gender identity or expression" includes a person's actual or perceived gender, as well as a person's gender identity, gender-related self-image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression, regardless of whether that gender identity, gender-related self-image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression is different from that traditionally associated with the person's sex at birth.

There are various statutes that prohibit discrimination on the basis of "gender identity or expression" in Hawaii, including in housing.  We are moving towards imposing this definition on employers as well. 

This isn't just about homosexuality.  It is about "gender-related appearance," which to me means a man dressing like a woman. 

Any opinions on this?

What should an employer do if they advertise a job opening for a receptionist and a cross-dressing man (not necessarily a homosexual) applies for the job? 

Should our military adopt this kind of definition too?   
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 09:50:12 AM »

Any opinions on this?

The Hawaii legislature has a a curious sense of priorities.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 09:55:17 AM »

The Hawaii legislature has a a curious sense of priorities.  Roll Eyes

Brought to them by the homosexual rights lobby. 
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2007, 11:35:25 AM »

Boys have a penis.  Girls have a vagina.  Hope this helps them out.
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Dos Equis
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2007, 07:24:50 AM »

Our legislature has codified the following definition of gender:

"Gender identity or expression" includes a person's actual or perceived gender, as well as a person's gender identity, gender-related self-image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression, regardless of whether that gender identity, gender-related self-image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression is different from that traditionally associated with the person's sex at birth.

There are various statutes that prohibit discrimination on the basis of "gender identity or expression" in Hawaii, including in housing.  We are moving towards imposing this definition on employers as well. 

This isn't just about homosexuality.  It is about "gender-related appearance," which to me means a man dressing like a woman. 

Any opinions on this?

What should an employer do if they advertise a job opening for a receptionist and a cross-dressing man (not necessarily a homosexual) applies for the job? 

Should our military adopt this kind of definition too?   

What, no one else wants to touch this?  Ozmo?  Deedee?  Anyone?   Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2007, 07:35:30 AM »

What, no one else wants to touch this?  Ozmo?  Deedee?  Anyone?   Smiley


BB - I agree.  People with gender identity issues should be discriminated against and should not be allowed equal access to housing.   Does Dr. Dobson have any prescription to Treat and Prevent this?

BTW - you seem to spend A LOT of time thinking about these things
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2007, 07:38:37 AM »


BB - I agree.  People with gender identity issues should be discriminated against and should not be allowed equal access to housing.   Does Dr. Dobson have any prescription to Treat and Prevent this?

BTW - you seem to spend A LOT of time thinking about these things

Someone stepped up to the plate!   Smiley  What about my receptionist hypothetical?  I think it's an interesting issue?  What would you do? 

I spend a lot of time thinking and talking about a lot of things.   Smiley  The fact that many of these things come up during our legislative session every year, and is routinely plastered all over the media, helps a little too. 
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2007, 07:45:05 AM »

Someone stepped up to the plate!   Smiley  What about my receptionist hypothetical?  I think it's an interesting issue?  What would you do? 

I spend a lot of time thinking and talking about a lot of things.   Smiley  The fact that many of these things come up during our legislative session every year, and is routinely plastered all over the media, helps a little too. 

it's not that complicated  - interview the person and decide if  you want to hire them or or not based on their skills and/or if you think they would be a good fit within the culture of your organization.   

Why do gay and transgendered people scare you so much? 
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2007, 09:35:09 AM »

it's not that complicated  - interview the person and decide if  you want to hire them or or not based on their skills and/or if you think they would be a good fit within the culture of your organization.   

Why do gay and transgendered people scare you so much? 

I think it's very complicated.  We're not talking about a homosexual necessarily.  We're talking about, among other things, "gender-related appearance."  Like it or not, a person's appearance matters a great deal to many.  Someone posted an article a while back about the relationship between looks and income.  Definite correlation.

I think if this gender definition was limited to homosexuality, it would be much simpler.  But gender-related appearance?  I'm not even sure what that means.  A guy who looks like a girl?

Never said I was scared of "gay and transgendered people."   
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2007, 09:39:57 AM »

I think it's very complicated.  We're not talking about a homosexual necessarily.  We're talking about, among other things, "gender-related appearance."  Like it or not, a person's appearance matters a great deal to many.  Someone posted an article a while back about the relationship between looks and income.  Definite correlation.

I think if this gender definition was limited to homosexuality, it would be much simpler.  But gender-related appearance?  I'm not even sure what that means.  A guy who looks like a girl?

Never said I was scared of "gay and transgendered people."  

obviously


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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2007, 02:00:43 PM »

I don;t see why it's complicated.

penis = man

vagina = woman


Why doe it get some complicated?

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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 03:07:11 PM »

I don;t see why it's complicated.

penis = man

vagina = woman


Why doe it get some complicated?


That's not what the definition says:

"Gender identity or expression" includes a person's actual or perceived gender, as well as a person's gender identity, gender-related self-image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression, regardless of whether that gender identity, gender-related self-image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression is different from that traditionally associated with the person's sex at birth.

So it's not as simple as penis and vagina. 
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2007, 03:39:50 PM »

That's not what the definition says:

"Gender identity or expression" includes a person's actual or perceived gender, as well as a person's gender identity, gender-related self-image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression, regardless of whether that gender identity, gender-related self-image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression is different from that traditionally associated with the person's sex at birth.

So it's not as simple as penis and vagina. 

that's why i don't agree with it.  in the military people with penises will have to dress like men and vice versa.  that definition is for lawyers.
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2007, 03:47:47 PM »

that's why i don't agree with it.  in the military people with penises will have to dress like men and vice versa.  that definition is for lawyers.

True.  Wasn't referring to the military here, but private business.  How would you deal with a definition like this in your business? 
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2007, 04:01:32 PM »

True.  Wasn't referring to the military here, but private business.  How would you deal with a definition like this in your business? 

Well, I'm in sales, so pretty much what we dress like is dictated by our customers.  If the person looks to whacked out, then they won't do well with us and natural evolution will take over.  If a person isn't presentable then it's a issue that would be addressed on the spot.

we have had, in the past, women who are lesbians who dressed more like men and were able to do well.    So in the private sector i really don't think it has much of an impact other than in business where your clients dictate how you look.

How ever in the military it does matter.
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« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2007, 04:09:52 PM »

Well, I'm in sales, so pretty much what we dress like is dictated by our customers.  If the person looks to whacked out, then they won't do well with us and natural evolution will take over.  If a person isn't presentable then it's a issue that would be addressed on the spot.

we have had, in the past, women who are lesbians who dressed more like men and were able to do well.    So in the private sector i really don't think it has much of an impact other than in business where your clients dictate how you look.

How ever in the military it does matter.

Here is the thing though:  a definition like this will prevent you from refusing to hire someone who looks whacked out, not saying this is a good or bad thing, just confusing.  We're not talking about lesbians.  Those are easy, as are homosexual men.  We cannot and do not discriminate against them here.  But gender-related appearance is a whole different, confusing ballgame.

Thanks for the input. 
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2007, 04:11:49 PM »

Well, I'm in sales, so pretty much what we dress like is dictated by our customers.  If the person looks to whacked out, then they won't do well with us and natural evolution will take over.  If a person isn't presentable then it's a issue that would be addressed on the spot.

we have had, in the past, women who are lesbians who dressed more like men and were able to do well.    So in the private sector i really don't think it has much of an impact other than in business where your clients dictate how you look.

How ever in the military it does matter.

In Sweden, the military usually have uniforms or a dress code, usually suits, just like any other workplace.

So transvestites don't get to wear high heels in the djungle... Cool

The uniforms are unisex, or rather, they're originally designed for males, and have some custom fit for the females I guess. But there are no skirts, so to speak.

I don't see Gay-in-Army problem to be honest.

The only problem is gay bashing and homofobia, fcuking up the spirit in a group. But that's something that is a problem for the homophobic person, since homosexuality is allowed in our society.

-Hedge

edit: I'm no fan of transexuals personally, and although I don't have problem with transvestites, neither of these two groups would be persons I would spend time with if it was up to me.

The same goes for lesbians.

But I definitely support their rights, however.
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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2007, 04:25:29 PM »

What, no one else wants to touch this?  Ozmo?  Deedee?  Anyone?   Smiley

I work in a creative environment so am exposed to all kinds of people because attitudes seem to be less judgemental or stifling. I've worked with transgendered people... can't say I didn't "notice" which I guess is normal. I'm female, guess that's noticeable too. Don't really know what to say... other than, if someone of one sex feels more normal as the other, they should be entitled to live that way and have the same rights as anyone else.
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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2007, 05:14:04 PM »

I work in a creative environment so am exposed to all kinds of people because attitudes seem to be less judgemental or stifling. I've worked with transgendered people... can't say I didn't "notice" which I guess is normal. I'm female, guess that's noticeable too. Don't really know what to say... other than, if someone of one sex feels more normal as the other, they should be entitled to live that way and have the same rights as anyone else.

Thanks.   Smiley
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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2007, 05:52:42 PM »

Thanks.   Smiley

 Smiley People are people... I believe in the "walk a mile in another man's pumps" motto.

btw... congrats on the modship!  Cheesy
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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2007, 06:18:27 PM »

Smiley People are people... I believe in the "walk a mile in another man's pumps" motto.

btw... congrats on the modship!  Cheesy

I think Rudy would agree with you


* giulianilegs.jpg (96.75 KB, 249x500 - viewed 1286 times.)
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Dos Equis
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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2007, 10:05:25 PM »

Smiley People are people... I believe in the "walk a mile in another man's pumps" motto.

btw... congrats on the modship!  Cheesy

Thanks Deedee.   Smiley  One of the reasons I'm glad I'm not female is those high heel shoes and how funny they make women walk.   Cheesy
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« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2007, 02:22:26 PM »

bump - just because I like this pic of RG.   

He seems to really be enjoying himself and may be the only Republican with a sense of humor
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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2007, 06:24:52 PM »

Brought to them by the homosexual rights lobby. 

At least you're working.
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« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2007, 08:19:40 PM »

At least you're working.

Oh wait.  Is this the point where I laugh?  Ha ha ha.   Roll Eyes
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