I just crapped my pants...

[loco]

thanks for informing me that I'm going to burn eternally in fire and brimstone. 

I will not apologize for telling you the truth.  I know it is not the answer that you wanted to hear.  Thank God the Father for sending his only Son Jesus to suffer and die in your place.  Thank Jesus, God the Son, for suffering and dying for your sins.

Question #1: wouldn't it be enough to be sorry for whatever sin you've committed?  I mean if you're sorry, then god already knows you are and would forgive you.  (Assuming he exists.)

Based on all my previous posts, you should know the answer to this question by now.

Question #2: I have a little sister who's parents had her out of wedlock and still aren't married.  What do you think is gonna happen to her when she eventually dies?  Just out of curiosity.

I know for sure that she is not responsible for her parents' sins.  Being born out of wedlock is not her fault.  She is responsible for her own sins only, if she has committed any. 

Is she still a little baby?  People go to hell because they choose to pay for their own sins, not because they didn't believe in Jesus.  Jesus died for our sins.  So a person who has never committed any sins does NOT have to believe in Jesus to go to heaven.  All Babies, and adults who were born mentally ill go to heaven when they die, without having to believe in Jesus.  That's because they have not sinned.  They have not sinned because they do not know any better.

Hope this helps!

[_Morrison_]

I will not apologize for telling you the truth.  I know it is not the answer that you wanted to hear.  Thank God the Father for sending his only Son Jesus to suffer and die in your place.  Thank Jesus, God the Son, for suffering and dying for your sins.

I know for sure that she is not responsible for her parents' sins.  Being born out of wedlock is not her fault.  She is responsible for her own sins only, if she has committed any. 

Is she still a little baby?  People go to hell because they choose to pay for their own sins, not because they didn't believe in Jesus.  Jesus died for our sins.  So a person who has never committed any sins does NOT have to believe in Jesus to go to heaven.  All Babies, and adults who were born mentally ill go to heaven when they die, without having to believe in Jesus.  That's because they have not sinned.  They have not sinned because they do not know any better.

Hope this helps!

I'm not expecting you to apologize. lol  I was being sarcastic.  And thanks... I think.
I asked because I have a cousin who, when I mentioned it to him and he heard it for the first time, got a shocked look on his face and said, "That's not good."  That pissed me off. 

And there's another thing I want to ask you: I see you quoting all of these verses from the bible, and as I do, I realize that none of them really mean much.  In fact, all the power that those words hold is that a lot of people worship them.  Now that doesn't mean that they don't have a point and have a good message and should probably be listened to (Well... some of them anyway), but what makes you think that this is the absolute word of God.  Need I remind you that these scriptures were written at least 2000 years ago, leaving them open to countless tampering and translation errors.  Especially during the time after the year 1000 when the church became a part of the state.  That in itself raises many questions about what people would do for power, especially if it seems so friggin' easy to do it.  Anyone with enough influence in the church could've easily changes things around from the original bible so as to keep the people in check by using one big scare tactic against them to make sure they don't do anything stupid or immoral.  (Ring any bells?) 

The point I'm trying to make is that the bible you read now may for all you know not be the original bible at all.  I'm not saying you should abandon your faith, i'm just saying that you might not want to follow it so blindly.

[loco]

I'm not expecting you to apologize. lol  I was being sarcastic.  And thanks... I think.
I asked because I have a cousin who, when I mentioned it to him and he heard it for the first time, got a shocked look on his face and said, "That's not good."  That pissed me off. 

And there's another thing I want to ask you: I see you quoting all of these verses from the bible, and as I do, I realize that none of them really mean much.  In fact, all the power that those words hold is that a lot of people worship them.  Now that doesn't mean that they don't have a point and have a good message and should probably be listened to (Well... some of them anyway), but what makes you think that this is the absolute word of God.  Need I remind you that these scriptures were written at least 2000 years ago, leaving them open to countless tampering and translation errors.  Especially during the time after the year 1000 when the church became a part of the state.  That in itself raises many questions about what people would do for power, especially if it seems so friggin' easy to do it.  Anyone with enough influence in the church could've easily changes things around from the original bible so as to keep the people in check by using one big scare tactic against them to make sure they don't do anything stupid or immoral.  (Ring any bells?) 

The point I'm trying to make is that the bible you read now may for all you know not be the original bible at all.  I'm not saying you should abandon your faith, i'm just saying that you might not want to follow it so blindly.

This evidence is much more than just quoting the Bible.  Please read the whole thing at your convenience and explain every single one of them if you can!
 
Fulfilled Prophecy.  The Bible is the only religious book that contains fulfilled prophecy.  Some of it has already been fulfilled throughout history, even in our own generation.
http://www.100prophecies.org/

Checkable Biblical Accuracy
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Charts/CheckableBiblicalAccuracy.html
 
Biblical Archaeology
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/biblical-archaeology.htm
 
Extra-Biblical and Non-Christian evidence that Jesus Christ did exist
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/5_5/noevidence
 
Evidence that the Gospels were written before 70 AD and that they are accurate and reliable
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorigin.php

[loco]

_Morrison_,
More reading for you and OzmO.  Read this stuff completely, then we can have a discussion on whether or not mine is blind faith.  Then we can have a discussion on whether or not the Bible is just another book.  Then we can discuss whether or not I know where my Bible came from.   

Bible Manuscripts
http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/bible-manuscripts.htm

Dead Sea Scrolls
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/dead-sea-scrolls.htm

[Colossus_500]

Now that I have your attention, here's a thought.

This is for all you hardcore Christian believers out there: I consider myself a generally good person.  I don't f*ck people over, I don't do things out of malicious intent, and I try to be nice to people.  Here's the catch: I do not believe that Jesus Christ was the "son" of God, or -that the "Virgin" Mary was actually a virgin at all.  Am I going to hell for that?  Brimstone and all.

Hope you don't mind me jumping in on the conversation, bro.  I just wanted to present to you, what i feel is, a thought-provoking question.  And maybe it's already been asked or mentioned (i didn't read the whole threat yet).....if you were able to go to heaven just because you are a generally good person, then what would be the whole point of Christ's death on the cross?

[_Morrison_]

Hope you don't mind me jumping in on the conversation, bro.  I just wanted to present to you, what i feel is, a thought-provoking question.  And maybe it's already been asked or mentioned (i didn't read the whole threat yet).....if you were able to go to heaven just because you are a generally good person, then what would be the whole point of Christ's death on the cross?

I don't know.  Maybe his death was just to prove a point.  I'm not even sure he existed at all. 

[loco]

I'm not even sure he existed at all. 

Extra-Biblical and Non-Christian evidence that Jesus Christ did exist
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/5_5/noevidence

[_Morrison_]

This evidence is much more than just quoting the Bible.  Please read the whole thing at your convenience and explain every single one of them if you can!
 
Fulfilled Prophecy.  The Bible is the only religious book that contains fulfilled prophecy.  Some of it has already been fulfilled throughout history, even in our own generation.
http://www.100prophecies.org/

Checkable Biblical Accuracy
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Charts/CheckableBiblicalAccuracy.html
 
Biblical Archaeology
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/biblical-archaeology.htm
 
Extra-Biblical and Non-Christian evidence that Jesus Christ did exist
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/5_5/noevidence
 
Evidence that the Gospels were written before 70 AD and that they are accurate and reliable
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorigin.php

I'm not going to read all of this because I don't really have the time. But I did skim.

Prophecies--Almost all of the "Fulfilled Prophecies" relate to Israel gaining its independence after WWII, which is really just one event.  And how is this any different from a psychic who makes an accurate claim that just happened to appear in the bible? 

Checkable Biblical Accuracy--This is nothing more than a bunch of quotes.

Archeology--The Christian Bible is the most recently written one (Aside from countless cults and sci-fi writers trying to make some extra cash), so it naturally has a lot of historical cross-references going for it.  If a bible were written now, then it would probably talk about Bush or terrorism.  Historical facts concerning events in the bible can only prove when it was written, not if it's accurate.

Jews for Jesus--The evidence in this article actually hurts your claim because it argues that Jesus might not have existed, which he might not have.

Gospels--All this is just more evidence that stuff was written at a certain time, and that people wrote generally the same thing.  Basically, these are just glorified testimonies.

It doesn't matter where it came from or when it was written because you still have no evidence that this is the true word of God.  All you have is what you believe and that's fine.  Show me something unexplainable that has factual evidence that it happened, and I'll explain it to you.

[_Morrison_]

Extra-Biblical and Non-Christian evidence that Jesus Christ did exist
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/5_5/noevidence

More quotes.  No real evidence.

[loco]

I'm not going to read all of this because I don't really have the time. But I did skim.

Prophecies--Almost all of the "Fulfilled Prophecies" relate to Israel gaining its independence after WWII, which is really just one event.  And how is this any different from a psychic who makes an accurate claim that just happened to appear in the bible? 

Checkable Biblical Accuracy--This is nothing more than a bunch of quotes.

Archeology--The Christian Bible is the most recently written one (Aside from countless cults and sci-fi writers trying to make some extra cash), so it naturally has a lot of historical cross-references going for it.  If a bible were written now, then it would probably talk about Bush or terrorism.  Historical facts concerning events in the bible can only prove when it was written, not if it's accurate.

Jews for Jesus--The evidence in this article actually hurts your claim because it argues that Jesus might not have existed, which he might not have.

Gospels--All this is just more evidence that stuff was written at a certain time, and that people wrote generally the same thing.  Basically, these are just glorified testimonies.

It doesn't matter where it came from or when it was written because you still have no evidence that this is the true word of God.  All you have is what you believe and that's fine.  Show me something unexplainable that has factual evidence that it happened, and I'll explain it to you.

Ha ha ha.  Man, you really need to read these again.  You missed the whole point.

Jews for Jesus--The evidence in this article actually hurts your claim because it argues that Jesus might not have existed, which he might not have.

You only read the first line.  Read it again, it's the opposite of what you are saying. 

You really need to question what you hear or read from skeptics.  They are telling you lies.  You need to study and research.  You don't have time?  Then make some time.  It's your soul.

[loco]

More quotes.  No real evidence.

NOT Bible quotes, but quotes from non-Christians.  Read it again.  It is REAL evidence.

[loco]

Need I remind you that these scriptures were written at least 2000 years ago, leaving them open to countless tampering and translation errors.  Especially during the time after the year 1000 when the church became a part of the state.  That in itself raises many questions about what people would do for power, especially if it seems so friggin' easy to do it.  Anyone with enough influence in the church could've easily changes things around from the original bible

http://www.septuagint.net/
Septuagint - Dramatic Evidence for the Credibility of Messianic Prophecy
"The Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls establish a very dramatic piece of evidence for Christianity – that the Old Testament prophecies of the coming Messiah unquestionably predated the time that Jesus Christ walked the earth. All theories of 1st Century AD conspiracies and prophecy manipulation go out the door when we realize that prophetic scripture like Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 were fixed in written form at least 100 years before Christ, and probably many more. Again, despite time, persecution, and the incredibly minor instances of scribal mistakes, the Septuagint is just another example of how the Biblical text has remained faithful in its message and theme. The Holy Bible is truly a divinely inspired and preserved letter from God that is deserving of our time and attention. "

[_Morrison_]

Ha ha ha.  Man, you really need to read these again.  You missed the whole point.

You really need to question what you hear or read from skeptics.  They are telling you lies.  You need to study and research.  You don't have time?  Then make some time.  It's your soul.

Fine I'll read it sometime, but the point is that you still have not given me a good reason to believe what you believe.  Why?  Because I'm guessing that there isn't one.  All religions are pretty much the same, Loco.  That's why they all suck.  If God or whoever wants to condemn me to an eternity of pain and suffering just because I have my doubts, then he can kiss my ass.  I'll be happier knowing I'm a martyr in hell for what I believe is right than to just blindly agree to what God says is right.  Assuming that the whole Christianity thing is true, which it isn't in my beliefs. 

You have no real evidence to support your claims, and I'm not talking about quotes or credibility of these quotes, I'm talking about something inexplicable that is both recorded in the bible and in history.  That's what I want to hear and that's the question I just asked.

So far, you still haven't answered my question.  All I see you doing is evading the point and telling me that everyone's lying to me without really proving your argument.

[_Morrison_]

http://www.septuagint.net/
Septuagint - Dramatic Evidence for the Credibility of Messianic Prophecy
"The Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls establish a very dramatic piece of evidence for Christianity – that the Old Testament prophecies of the coming Messiah unquestionably predated the time that Jesus Christ walked the earth. All theories of 1st Century AD conspiracies and prophecy manipulation go out the door when we realize that prophetic scripture like Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 were fixed in written form at least 100 years before Christ, and probably many more. Again, despite time, persecution, and the incredibly minor instances of scribal mistakes, the Septuagint is just another example of how the Biblical text has remained faithful in its message and theme. The Holy Bible is truly a divinely inspired and preserved letter from God that is deserving of our time and attention. "

And yet, you find this on a site that's incredibly biased!!!!

[loco]

You have no real evidence to support your claims, and I'm not talking about quotes or credibility of these quotes, I'm talking about something inexplicable that is both recorded in the bible and in history.  That's what I want to hear and that's the question I just asked.

I do have real evidence.  I have just presented you with just a fraction of all the evidence out there, "something inexplicable that is both recorded in the bible and in history", but you won't bother to read it.

[loco]

And yet, you find this on a site that's incredibly biased!!!!

So what?  It is verifiable evidence.  Take whatever I have given you to any non-religious Archeologyst or Historian.  Go to any non-religious Archeology or History site and search for the information to verify that it's true.  Do your homework.  You want to know the truth?  It's gonna take some work on your part.

[loco]

If God or whoever wants to condemn me to an eternity of pain and suffering

God does not want to condemn you.  That's why He sent His Son, Jesus Christ to die for you.  You are condemning yourself.

[loco]

I'll be happier knowing I'm a martyr in hell for what I believe is right than to just blindly agree to what God says is right. 

If you'll be happier doing that, then you are okay, right?  No need to search for the truth and no need to ask religious people any more questions.

Either way, I'm here for you, to answer any other questions you might have about my faith.  I'm praying for you!  God bless you!

[_Morrison_]

NOT Bible quotes, but quotes from non-Christians.  Read it again.  It is REAL evidence.

Words mean nothing.  I'm not questioning that it happened, I'm questioning whether or not it proves the existence of a "god", which it doesn't.

I do have real evidence.  I have just presented you with just a fraction of all the evidence out there, "something inexplicable that is both recorded in the bible and in history", but you won't bother to read it.

I did read it, there is nothing but what people say.  There are no pictures, no statistics, and nothing there but people trying to prove something that is seemingly impossible by giving the possible parts credibility.

So what?  It is verifiable evidence.  Take whatever I have given you to any non-religious Archeologyst or Historian.  Go to any non-religious Archeology or History site and search for the information to verify that it's true.  Do your homework.  You want to know the truth?  It's gonna take some work on your part.

Fine, I'll do that. 

God does not want to condemn you.  That's why He sent His Son, Jesus Christ to die for you.  You are condemning yourself.

Wrong, my friend.  If God is as all powerful as everyone makes him out to be, he wouldn't allow the kinds of things that go on in the world to go on, he wouldn't have had a bible written that so many people take too seriously and misunderstand (http://www.godhatesfags.com), and he wouldn't have.  No one should be condemned for questioning.  God has a god complex, but instead, he makes it our fault for not "choosing" to follow his words.  He's basically making us an offer we can't refuse!!!

[_Morrison_]

If you'll be happier doing that, then you are okay, right?  No need to search for the truth and no need to ask religious people any more questions.

Either way, I'm here for you, to answer any other questions you might have about my faith.  I'm praying for you!  God bless you!

Thanks, you seem like a good guy, but I've already found my own truth and that's good enough for me.

[Colossus_500]

I don't know.  Maybe his death was just to prove a point.  I'm not even sure he existed at all. 

If you have time, _Morrison_, I'd recommend you read the book "Letters From A Skeptic", by Greg Boyd.  It's an easy read, because it's the true-life dialogue between an agnostic-atheistic father and his son, who is a pastor and theologian in Minnesota. 

[Colossus_500]

Oh, I forgot, there's another good one too, "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel

There's tons of information out there to help you, bro.  But just as Loco says, you've got to go out there and get it.  You shouldn't just go by your feelings, because feelings are very trustworthy. 

[_Morrison_]

If you have time, _Morrison_, I'd recommend you read the book "Letters From A Skeptic", by Greg Boyd.  It's an easy read, because it's the true-life dialogue between an agnostic-atheistic father and his son, who is a pastor and theologian in Minnesota. 

If I find the time then maybe.

[Wikidudeman]

http://www.septuagint.net/
Septuagint - Dramatic Evidence for the Credibility of Messianic Prophecy
"The Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls establish a very dramatic piece of evidence for Christianity – that the Old Testament prophecies of the coming Messiah unquestionably predated the time that Jesus Christ walked the earth. All theories of 1st Century AD conspiracies and prophecy manipulation go out the door when we realize that prophetic scripture like Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 were fixed in written form at least 100 years before Christ, and probably many more. Again, despite time, persecution, and the incredibly minor instances of scribal mistakes, the Septuagint is just another example of how the Biblical text has remained faithful in its message and theme. The Holy Bible is truly a divinely inspired and preserved letter from God that is deserving of our time and attention. "

What parts of the Septuagint or the Dead sea scrolls predict the 'time' Jesus walked the earth? So what if Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 were written 100 years before Jesus?

[loco]

What parts of the Septuagint or the Dead sea scrolls predict the 'time' Jesus walked the earth?

Daniel 9:24-27

So what if Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 were written 100 years before Jesus?

So what?  They talk about Jesus 100-400 years before the fact.  Many skeptics and critics used to say that Isaiah and Psalm were either written after Jesus, or that they were written before Jesus, but later altered by the Roman Catholic Church to seem as if they predict Jesus' suffering.  Both statements are false, the skeptics and critics were wrong, and that's a known fact today.  The Bible contains fulfilled prophecy.