Author Topic: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"  (Read 2375 times)

Colossus_500

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Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« on: April 24, 2007, 06:16:13 AM »
Speaking as a Former Fetus...
By Dinesh D'Souza
Monday, April 23, 2007

Speaking as a former fetus, I welcome the Supreme Court's decision permitting regulation of partial birth abortion. Now there's lots of talk about a wider pro-life strategy to build on this victory. Such a strategy must be one of persuasion as much as legislation. I am not an expert on the abortion issue, but I have learned a great deal about it, strangely enough, by studying the Lincoln-Douglas debates. These debates were about slavery. But look at how closely the arguments parallel the abortion debate.

Douglas, the Democrat, took the pro-choice position. He said that each state should decide for itself whether or not it wanted slavery. Douglas denied that he was pro-slavery. In fact, at one time he professed to be "personally opposed" to it. At the same time, Douglas was reluctant to impose his moral views on the new territories. Douglas affirmed the right of each state to choose. He invoked the great principle of freedom of choice.

Lincoln, the Republican, disagreed. Lincoln argued that choice cannot be exercised without reference to the content of the choice. How can it make sense to permit a person to choose to enslave another human being? How can self-determination be invoked to deny others self-determination? How can choice be used to negate choice? At its deepest level, Lincoln is saying that the legitimacy of freedom as a political principle is itself dependent on a doctrine of natural rights that arises out of a specific understanding of human nature and human dignity.

If Negroes are like hogs, Lincoln said, then the pro-choice position is right, and there is no problem with choosing to own them. Of course they may be governed without their consent. But if Negroes are human beings, then it is grotesquely evil to treat them like hogs, to buy and sell them as objects of merchandise.

The argument between Douglas and Lincoln is very similar in content, and very nearly in form, to the argument between the pro-choice and the pro-life movements. Pro-choice advocates don't like to be considered pro-abortion. Many of them say they are "personally opposed." One question to put to them is, "Why are you personally opposed?" The only reason for one to be personally opposed to abortion is that one is deeply convinced that the fetus is more than a mere collection of cells, that it is a developing human being.

Even though the weight of the argument is strongly on the pro-life side, the pro-choice side has until now won politically. This is because liberals understand that abortion-on-demand is the debris of the sexual revolution. If you are going to have sexual promiscuity, then there are going to be mistakes, and many women are going to get pregnant without wanting to do so. For them, the fetus becomes what one feminist writer termed "an uninvited guest."

As long as the fetus occupies the woman's womb, liberals view it as an enemy of female autonomy. Thus liberalism is willing to grant to the woman full control over the life of the fetus, even to the point of allowing her to kill it. No other liberal principle, not equality, not compassion, is permitted to get in the way of the principle of autonomy.

The abortion issue reveals the bloody essence of modern liberalism. In fact, it is the one issue on which liberals rarely yield. Being pro-choice is a litmus test for nomination to high office in the Democratic Party. Liberals as a group seem to oppose any restriction of abortion. They don't want laws that regulate late-term abortion. Many liberals object to parental notification laws that would notify the parents if a minor seeks to have an abortion. We see from their recent reaction that even partial birth abortion is acceptable to the Democratic presidential contenders, like Obama and Hillary. One may say that in the church of modern liberalism, abortion has become a sacrament.

What, then, is the challenge facing the pro-life movement? It is the same challenge that Lincoln faced: to build popular consent for the restriction and ultimately the ending of abortions. Right now the pro-life movement does not enjoy the support of the American people to do this. Neither, by the way, did Lincoln have a national mandate to end slavery. It is highly significant that Lincoln was not an abolitionist. He was resolutely anti-slavery in principle, but his political campaign focused on the issue of curtailing the spread of slavery to the territories.

In my view the pro-life movement at this point should focus on seeking to reduce the number of abortions. At times this will require political and legal fights, at times it will require education and the establishment of alternatives to abortion, such as adoption centers. Unfortunately such measures are sometimes opposed by so-called hardliners in the pro-life movement. These hardliners are fools. They want to outlaw all abortions, and so they refuse to settle for stopping some abortions, with the consequence that they end up preventing no abortions. These folks should learn some lessons from Abraham Lincoln.

Dinesh D'Souza's new book The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its Responsibility for 9/11 has just been published by Doubleday. D’Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution.

Old_Rooster

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2007, 06:29:03 AM »
Its a womans body, she should be allowed to snuff it out if she wants.

I disagree with Republicans on this issue, amazing huh.
Benjamin Pearson-Pedo

seauantea

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 06:34:10 AM »
The mindset of someone who would terminate their unborn child is not the mindset of someone who should be raising one.

I am no scientist, but I believe sperm is necessary for conception, therefore you cannot call a fetus "a woman's body" :)

Colossus_500

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2007, 06:39:55 AM »
The mindset of someone who would terminate their unborn child is not the mindset of someone who should be raising one.

I am no scientist, but I believe sperm is necessary for conception, therefore you cannot call a fetus "a woman's body" :)
Well said!   :)

Old_Rooster

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2007, 06:45:50 AM »
The mindset of someone who would terminate their unborn child is not the mindset of someone who should be raising one.

I am no scientist, but I believe sperm is necessary for conception, therefore you cannot call a fetus "a woman's body" :)

so easy for a NON-female to say.
Benjamin Pearson-Pedo

Dos Equis

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2007, 10:56:30 AM »
Speaking as a Former Fetus...

The argument between Douglas and Lincoln is very similar in content, and very nearly in form, to the argument between the pro-choice and the pro-life movements. Pro-choice advocates don't like to be considered pro-abortion. Many of them say they are "personally opposed." One question to put to them is, "Why are you personally opposed?" The only reason for one to be personally opposed to abortion is that one is deeply convinced that the fetus is more than a mere collection of cells, that it is a developing human being.

Even though the weight of the argument is strongly on the pro-life side, the pro-choice side has until now won politically. This is because liberals understand that abortion-on-demand is the debris of the sexual revolution. If you are going to have sexual promiscuity, then there are going to be mistakes, and many women are going to get pregnant without wanting to do so. For them, the fetus becomes what one feminist writer termed "an uninvited guest."


I agree with this.  I hadn't heard of the "uninvited guest" phrase.   :-\  Many pro choice advocates attempt to dehumanize the baby to support their argument. 

Old_Rooster

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2007, 11:07:07 AM »
i remember my time as a fetus, i enjoyed it although i was into incest then, whoa i licked my mommys giner when i was a fetus.


ah the rooster is edgy.
Benjamin Pearson-Pedo

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2007, 11:08:02 AM »
I agree with this.  I hadn't heard of the "uninvited guest" phrase.   :-\  Many pro choice advocates attempt to dehumanize the baby to support their argument. 

And rightfully so.

24KT

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2007, 03:59:30 PM »
I'd be embarrassed to post anything from Dinesh D'Souza. That man's crediblilty is so non-existent it's not funny.

The man is a complete and total clown. Have you ever heard him speak, or justify his positions?  ::)
w

youandme

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2007, 08:00:36 PM »
dehumanize the baby

zygote 2 weeks, embryo 2-8 weeks old, fetus 8 weeks till term

hope this helps

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2007, 08:05:22 PM »
I'd be embarrassed to post anything from Dinesh D'Souza. That man's crediblilty is so non-existent it's not funny.

The man is a complete and total clown. Have you ever heard him speak, or justify his positions?  ::)

My favorite of these Pro Life zealots are the ones that believe life begins at the insertion of the penis. Yep, that's right, once you stick it in it's a baby. These clowns are typically the ones that are up in arms about the morning after pill.

It's always the ones hiding behind religion that are the most insane.

Cap

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2007, 08:14:07 PM »
If you are ready to spread your legs/have sex, you are ready to have a kid.  Maybe women should actually be gatekeepers instead of leaving the driveway open for multiple cars to enter the property.  ;)
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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2007, 08:20:19 PM »
Thanks again for proving my point.

What business is it of yours or anyone else's if a woman wants to spread her legs?

My number one problem with Conservatives, they want to control the way people live. The foundation of the Republican Party is smaller governmental control over people yet they want to control what we do and say. It's quite the dichotomy.

Cap

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2007, 08:23:42 PM »
Thanks again for proving my point.

What business is it of yours or anyone else's if a woman wants to spread her legs?

My number one problem with Conservatives, they want to control the way people live. The foundation of the Republican Party is smaller governmental control over people yet they want to control what we do and say. It's quite the dichotomy.
I actually find the problem with abortion is that people do not take responsibility for their actions (mostly women) and it is used as a tool for sluts and irresponsible people.  It needs to be done away with although I am sure that there will still be exceptions such as mother health.  It's not a matter of control, it's a matter of morals and doing what is right not just being irresponsible.  Without invoking religion, just think about how downhill the morals of this country have gone and abortion is a big reason for it.
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ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2007, 08:33:44 PM »
I actually find the problem with abortion is that people do not take responsibility for their actions (mostly women) and it is used as a tool for sluts and irresponsible people.  It needs to be done away with although I am sure that there will still be exceptions such as mother health.  It's not a matter of control, it's a matter of morals and doing what is right not just being irresponsible.  Without invoking religion, just think about how downhill the morals of this country have gone and abortion is a big reason for it.

LOL, I doubt you typed that with a straight face.

You say it's not a matter of control but that's exactly what you want to do, control what a woman can and can't do. Again, my number one problem with conservatives.

It's not about morals either because moral standards can and do vary between individuals. What you or I consider moral someone else might not consider moral. It's a line that except for absolutes isn't easily defined.

I'll say it again for the billionth time. Conservatives have no right to try and control the way other people live. Why you people have such a hard time understanding that is beyond comprehension.

If a woman wants to have sex, or if a guy wants to have consensual sex with another guy or if two homosexuals want to get married it's none of your business or my business.

Cap

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2007, 08:41:10 PM »
Then should a man, who helped create a baby, have the right to interfere with an abortion?  What if I wanted a baby and my spouse did not but she conceived?  I think I should have a say.

If a woman wants to have sex and kill a life it is my business just like the dumb whores who have 10 welfare babies to get a check each month.  It concerns me as a human being.

It is moral, just like killing a man is amoral so is killing a child.  By your logic I should be able to kill at will because my morals are different.  This is an endless debate and will never change your mind but consider this.  We are a nation who keeps murderers and rapists alive yet kill the innocent.  How is that justice?
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ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2007, 08:51:49 PM »
Then should a man, who helped create a baby, have the right to interfere with an abortion?  What if I wanted a baby and my spouse did not but she conceived?  I think I should have a say.

If a woman wants to have sex and kill a life it is my business just like the dumb whores who have 10 welfare babies to get a check each month.  It concerns me as a human being.

It is moral, just like killing a man is amoral so is killing a child.  By your logic I should be able to kill at will because my morals are different.  This is an endless debate and will never change your mind but consider this.  We are a nation who keeps murderers and rapists alive yet kill the innocent.  How is that justice?

IMO, the father has a say in the abortion but that's it. You don't have a say, I don't have a say and neither does any governmental agency. Again, this is my opinion.

And you comparing a woman having an abortion to a woman having 10 babies to collect welfare is ridiculous, they're not even remotely analogous.

You conservatives are unbelievable. The comparing an abortion to killing a man argument is another winner, nice job. I'm guessing you oppose the morning after pill as well, if not I apologize.

You know my favorite part about conservatives that try and control how we all live? When they inevitably get caught doing the things they're trying to stop everyone else from doing. LOL

Oh, and your last line is pure rhetoric but then again you're whole post is littered with hyperbole so I shouldn't be surprised.

Cap

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2007, 09:04:31 PM »
What I am saying about the mothers in both case is when we don't control behavior one extreme (welfare mom) happens and look at the extreme in abortion.  It isn't hyperbole, it is reality. 

Killing is killing.
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youandme

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2007, 12:01:02 AM »

And you comparing a woman having an abortion to a woman having 10 babies to collect welfare is ridiculous, they're not even remotely analogous.


Maybe not everycase but I've seen and heard of this, ALOT, sad but true.

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2007, 12:46:39 AM »
Then should a man, who helped create a baby, have the right to interfere with an abortion?  What if I wanted a baby and my spouse did not but she conceived?  I think I should have a say.

When you can rip your body apart carrying a baby, let alone giving birth to it, ...I'm sure you'll have a greater say.  :)
w

seauantea

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2007, 09:32:29 PM »
so easy for a NON-female to say.

This post would have voided your opinion had your idiocy not taken care of it.

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2007, 03:12:41 AM »
install condom vending machines in all schools, pubs, clubs and anywhere else for that matter. That should help.

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2007, 04:34:30 AM »
If only abortion had been available to this woman.  :-\

egj13

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2007, 05:31:25 AM »
My favorite of these Pro Life zealots are the ones that believe life begins at the insertion of the penis. Yep, that's right, once you stick it in it's a baby. These clowns are typically the ones that are up in arms about the morning after pill.

It's always the ones hiding behind religion that are the most insane.

If that was true (I wish it was) I wouldn't be dropping of semen samples at the docs office to see why I can't make a second baby!

Dos Equis

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Re: Speaking as a Former "Fetus"
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2007, 08:51:19 AM »
zygote 2 weeks, embryo 2-8 weeks old, fetus 8 weeks till term

hope this helps

No, it doesn't help.