Parents Want Abstinence Taught, Not More Sex Ed.

[Laughing Sam's Dice]

Discredited again.  Imagine that?      If it's got a Christian tag on it, it's all irrelevant, right?   

It's relevant to conservative Christians.  But its pitched as "research" that represents common Americans.

[Dos Equis]

It's relevant to conservative Christians.  But its pitched as "research" that represents common Americans.

Conservative Christians aren't "common Americans"?  It's relevant to parents.  And without even looking at the numbers I would be willing to wager that the vast majority of Americans are either Christian or at a minimum believe in God.  Pretty large audience. 

[gcb]

You mean the federal government wants to endorse an idea that an overwhelming majority of parents support?

It is obvious that the whole liberal condom emphasis has been a complete failure.  They don't stop the spread of disease, they haven't slowed the pregnancy rates, and I doubt guys use them consistently.  And you're absolutely right that abstinence and condoms/birth control send mixed messages to kids.   

That's not true - when the AIDs scare came out in the eighties there was a government blitz in Australia about always wearing a condom. Prostitutes use them, they're in every pub and club. We have one the lowest levels of HIV and STD transmissions in the world. The government here would never consider an 'abstinence' approach - no one here would buy it.

[Laughing Sam's Dice]

The government here would never consider an 'abstinence' approach - no one here would buy it.

The people here being pitched to don't buy it either.  But it makes the conservatives happy to see their values being taught as the only acceptable ones, despite the negative results.

[Dos Equis]

That's not true - when the AIDs scare came out in the eighties there was a government blitz in Australia about always wearing a condom. Prostitutes use them, they're in every pub and club. We have one the lowest levels of HIV and STD transmissions in the world. The government here would never consider an 'abstinence' approach - no one here would buy it.

We're talking about 13-17 year-olds. 

What is IV drug use like in Australia? 

[gcb]

We're talking about 13-17 year-olds. 

What is IV drug use like in Australia? 

Don't know, I would hazard a guess that we don't have as many drug problems as the US. We have needle exchange programs too - people are encouraged not to share needles.

At 13 years of age most people know something about sex in Australia - I mean we used to tell dirty jokes about a man sticking his thingy in a woman in primary school.

[Deedee]

No wonder I never come here anymore. What a stupid thread.

[Deedee]

to your favor Beach Bum... seems to be less gay bashing articles you're producing on this board. Good on you.

[Dos Equis]

Don't know, I would hazard a guess that we don't have as many drug problems as the US. We have needle exchange programs too - people are encouraged not to share needles.

At 13 years of age most people know something about sex in Australia - I mean we used to tell dirty jokes about a man sticking his thingy in a woman in primary school.

Check out the excerpts I posted earlier from "White Lies, Black Lies."  There is a correlation between IV drug use and HIV.  That might help explain why your HIV rates are much lower. 

A kid better know a lot about sex by age 13.  Some psychologists, child rearing "experts," etc. believe you should have the birds and bees talk at age 8.  But teaching a kid about sex and a kid actually engaging in sex are completely different.  We shouldn't be encouraging 13-year-olds to have sex. 

[Dos Equis]

to your favor Beach Bum... seems to be less gay bashing articles you're producing on this board. Good on you.

 

[gcb]

Check out the excerpts I posted earlier from "White Lies, Black Lies."  There is a correlation between IV drug use and HIV.  That might help explain why your HIV rates are much lower. 

A kid better know a lot about sex by age 13.  Some psychologists, child rearing "experts," etc. believe you should have the birds and bees talk at age 8.  But teaching a kid about sex and a kid actually engaging in sex are completely different.  We shouldn't be encouraging 13-year-olds to have sex. 

Yeah - we also knew about condoms at that age. I would have heard about sex in grade 3 or 4 I think.

[Deedee]

That's all you can come up with... rolling eyes.    Face it, religious right people are obsessed... no OBSESSED with gay people, have no clue about what's going on in the world, read no newspapers, want to go back to the "romantic" 1950's because for some reason you think there was more order back then... when there wasn't... it was worse. For women, definately.  Yeah okay, abstinence is "key" to bringing back some logic into the world.  When was there EVER abstinence from sex EVER??? There never has been, which is why the man-written bible is sooooo filled with references to it. It's just a guide to keep people from going over the top. 

[Dos Equis]

That's all you can come up with... rolling eyes.    Face it, religious right people are obsessed... no OBSESSED with gay people, have no clue about what's going on in the world, read no newspapers, want to go back to the "romantic" 1950's because for some reason you think there was more order back then... when there wasn't... it was worse. For women, definately.  Yeah okay, abstinence is "key" to bringing back some logic into the world.  When was there EVER abstinence from sex EVER??? There never has been, which is why the man-written bible is sooooo filled with references to it. It's just a guide to keep people from going over the top. 

 

Yes, you make a dumb comment (which you don't usually do), you get the eyeroll. 

 

[gcb]

Reminds me of a documentary I saw on Van Gogh. When he was a preist they sent him to this little mining village. The men and women use to work in the mines together - his job was to help them resist the urge to indulge in the sexual desires. Makes me think - if it didn't work back then why is it going to work now.

[Dos Equis]

Reminds me of a documentary I saw on Van Gogh. When he was a preist they sent him to this little mining village. The men and women use to work in the mines together - his job was to help them resist the urge to indulge in the sexual desires. Makes me think - if it didn't work back then why is it going to work now.

Because we're talking about kids, not adults? 

[gcb]

Unfortunately once they hit puberty, they are effectively exposed to adult desires.

[Samourai Pizzacat]

OMG! OMG! OMG!

Christianity has been trying to teach abstinence for a good few centuries....didn't work.

Teens are getting more sexually active and at a younger age.

Decker has been spot on all the time. You will never get rid of STD's, it's simply a matter of damage control and condoms are the cheapest easiest and safest way.

Keep believing you can teach abstinence, shut your eyes, it's the good ol' christian way. It's a dangerous fallacy and still continued by that new geezer in the vatican!

[GigantorX]

I'm a Catholic and never could understand why the Church would look at contraception as a sin. For godsakes it's the safe thing to do. Wrap it up and get your girl, (or hope the girl you are fucking) is on the pill....Bam your risk is reduced a great deal. We do not live in a vacuum here, there is a thing such as human nature...people will have sex. Period. Abstinence is a noble cause to persue, but you must teach it as only part of the solution. If X amount of teens take up the abstinence banner great, then you can add that to X amount of teens that will have sex but do it with protection and BAM you have just greatly reduced the risk.We should (parents and schools etc) teaching our kids all the ways to be safe and not just pushing some ideological garbage on something that doesn't account for our human side.  Pushing one or the other is folly.



Oh and for the record, those who practice abstinence are fucking losers.....j/k!

[Deedee]

Yes, you make a dumb comment (which you don't usually do), you get the eyeroll. 

 

When do I ever make a dumb comment? Don't insult me.  You're a mod, yet you use rolley-eyed icons to illustrate your point? Over and over again. You don't have anything to say beyond how you're comfortable in your Hawaii dreamland, you know nothing about Canada which is close to you, nothing about Europa, nothing about anything except your religion, where you live, and the fact that you married your ha skool sweethart.

I'll say it again, with references, if you wish, which you never do, just rolley eyes.  Abstinence doesn't work. Find me somewhere in history where it does. Most literature, music, any "drawring" caveman etching proves otherwise.
 

[Dos Equis]

When do I ever make a dumb comment? Don't insult me.  You're a mod, yet you use rolley-eyed icons to illustrate your point? Over and over again. You don't have anything to say beyond how you're comfortable in your Hawaii dreamland, you know nothing about Canada which is close to you, nothing about Europa, nothing about anything except your religion, where you live, and the fact that you married your ha skool sweethart.

I'll say it again, with references, if you wish, which you never do, just rolley eyes.  Abstinence doesn't work. Find me somewhere in history where it does. Most literature, music, any "drawring" caveman etching proves otherwise.
 

I've obviously struck a nerve.     You dropped into a thread dealing with abstience and, out of the blue, made the following comment to me:

Quote from: Deedee on May 10, 2007, 09:20:29 PM
to your favor Beach Bum... seems to be less gay bashing articles you're producing on this board. Good on you.

That wasn't a compliment.  It was a dumb comment.  That's what got you the eye roll.  And if you don't like my use of the eye roll, or the way I express myself, all I can say is tough tittie. 

And am I supposed to apologize for living in paradise?  I'm just a very happy person and a very blessed person.  I don't have a perfect life, but God has blessed me to live in one of the most beautiful places in the world and allowed me to have a beautiful family, a beautiful home, great friends, a great career, great volunteer opportunities, etc.  I'll continue to talk about those things, and give credit where credit is due.  In fact, I am making plans to spend some quality time this weekend with my very special hammock at my very own spot at one of the most beautiful beaches on the planet.  I'm sorry if that bothers you.  (Actually, no I'm not.)   

But back to the point of this thread, you're not going to convince me that abstinence doesn't work.  I've seen it work.  It is an uphill battle, but it's the method that makes the most sense IMO.  Thirteen-year-olds aren't old or mature enough to have sex, they cannot legally consent to sex, and they are unable to appreciate all of the consequences surrounding sex.  So why encourage them to do so?  I have no problem teaching a kid to do what makes the most sense.  It won't always work, just like trying to get a guy to use condoms consistently won't hardly ever work, but it's the right approach.   

[Al-Gebra]

carry on DD & BB . . . I'm just here to heartily endorse the abstinence movement. 

As someone who was raised by parents who would have invented the movement had it not already been in existence, I have to say that it made my teenage years far more exciting than most people's teenage years . . . for me the thrill of violating a "taboo" heightened my pleasure to an intoxicating extent.  I can't say that anything I've done recently rivals making it with Pastor _________'s daughter after Sunday night service, not 2 weeks after she'd pledged to be a virgin until she married. 

Don't worry it all ended well. I still see her when i'm home, and she seems happy (married to a youth pastor, of course , and has two lovely kids.  But, God, I would not exchange those mid '90s summers . . . making it on the bench seat of a Silverado, w her still in the lovely sundresses she wore to the evening service . . . still remember the fireflies too

[Al-Gebra]

After all, does n't the bible say stolen fruit tastes sweeter (maybe I'm forgetting the second part, in which it turns to bitterness or some other horrible thing in the stomach)

[Dos Equis]

carry on DD & BB . . . I'm just here to heartily endorse the abstinence movement. 

As someone who was raised by parents who would have invented the movement had it not already been in existence, I have to say that it made my teenage years far more exciting than most people's teenage years . . . for me the thrill of violating a "taboo" heightened my pleasure to an intoxicating extent.  I can't say that anything I've done recently rivals making it with Pastor _________'s daughter after Sunday night service, not 2 weeks after she'd pledged to be a virgin until she married. 

Don't worry it all ended well. I still see her when i'm home, and she seems happy (married to a youth pastor, of course , and has two lovely kids.  But, God, I would not exchange those mid '90s summers . . . making it on the bench seat of a Silverado, w her still in the lovely sundresses she wore to the evening service . . . still remember the fireflies too

lol.     I get that argument a lot.  I've heard people say that like depriving your child of _____will only make them want it more.  There may be some truth to that, but I think the way to handle it is to remove the mysteries, if any, surrounding the issue and ensure the kid understands why they're being taught to do or not do something.  There should be explicit and open discussion.

And at the end of the day, as a parent, you have to decide what you think is right for you kid and teach them accordingly.   

[Al-Gebra]

lol.     I get that argument a lot.  I've heard people say that like depriving your child of _____will only make them want it more.  There may be some truth to that, but I think the way to handle it is to remove the mysteries, if any, surrounding the issue and ensure the kid understands why they're being taught to do or not do something.  There should be explicit and open discussion.

And at the end of the day, as a parent, you have to decide what you think is right for you kid and teach them accordingly.   

I actually agree, more or less. I believe that experience is life. but there are experiences that wind up in closing off parts of you that shouldn't be closed off . . . and you can't undo what's been done.  the right way w kids is to help them walk the fine line b/w being narrow-minded and letting the capacity to experience some facets of love be washed away in a flood of hormones before they understand what's happening.

[Dos Equis]

I actually agree, more or less. I believe that experience is life. but there are experiences that wind up in closing off parts of you that shouldn't be closed off . . . and you can't undo what's been done.  the right way w kids is to help them walk the fine line b/w being narrow-minded and letting the capacity to experience some facets of love be washed away in a flood of hormones before they understand what's happening.

I agree.