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Author Topic: michael vick ... dog fighting  (Read 10306 times)
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Getbig V
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« Reply #75 on: July 18, 2007, 09:35:12 AM »

What a bunch of sick losers he and his "posse" must be.

True.  Vick proved he is a loser with his Ron Mexico stunt. 

Here is a good summary from ESPN:

Legal odds against Vick just got much longer
By Lester Munson
Updated: July 17, 2007

 A grand jury indicted Atlanta Falcons' quarterback Michael Vick on Tuesday, which at least partially answers one question that has lingered since the news first broke about an alleged dogfighting operation on property owned by Vick in Virginia: Was Vick involved? Obviously, we know now that investigators believe he was.

There are plenty of football-related issues still to be resolved about Vick's future with the Falcons and the NFL, but those might be the least of his concerns right now. Questions about his legal future abound at the moment. Here are some answers.

What do these federal charges mean for Michael Vick?

Vick is in real trouble. He is up against the might and majesty of the U.S. government with all of its agents, all of its investigative techniques, and all of its skilled prosecutors. If he has any doubts about the power and skill of the forces arrayed against him, he can call Scooter Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Cheney, or he can call Lord Conrad Black, the disgraced media mogul now facing time in a federal penitentiary. If he still isn't convinced, he can call Jeff Skilling, the zillionaire Enron CEO who is now residing in a federal pen. All three of them hired brilliant (and expensive) lawyers. All three thought they could explain their way out from under federal charges. And all three were convicted. Vick can, and probably will, hire some of America's best defense lawyers, but they will face a serious battle.

Would Vick be sent to jail if he is convicted?

Yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome. The charges are serious, and the evidence against Vick presented at trial will be nasty. The government's case includes evidence that Vick and his cohorts "tested" pit bulls for ferocity. If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose and then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

What is the next step for Vick?

Vick will now watch to see which of his three co-defendants will be the first to make a deal with federal prosecutors. Each of them will think seriously about turning on Vick and offering testimony against him in return for less time in jail. Vick obviously is the prime target of the government effort. Prosecutors and agents will be willing to talk with his co-defendants about a deal if they are willing to help prove the case against Vick. The government indictment discloses four witnesses who have already agreed to testify against him. If all three of his co-defendants join these four witnesses against Vick, he and his lawyers might suggest that he, too, should talk to the government about a deal that would minimize his time in jail.

Vick is charged with "conspiracy" and violations of the "Travel Act." What does that mean?

The conspiracy charge will make things extra difficult for Vick and his lawyers. Under federal laws, the conspiracy charge allows federal prosecutors to link Vick to things that occurred even if he was not present. If the prosecutors can connect the four defendants, then crimes committed by one of them can be used to add to the evidence against the others. It's a tricky legal procedure that prosecutors love and defense lawyers detest. The Travel Act is a device invented by Robert F. Kennedy when he was Attorney General in the early '60s. It was designed for use against organized crime and made it easier to prove cases against hoodlums. In the sports world, it was used most recently in the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics bribery scandal. Federal prosecutors charged the Utah organizers under the Travel Act and proved millions of dollars in bribes. Vick, however, can take some hope from the fact that U.S. District Judge David Sam found the organizers not guilty of violating the Travel Act, even though there was powerful evidence of bribery.

What was Vick's role in the dogfighting conspiracy described in the indictment?

According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation.

When would Vick's trial begin?

The federal courthouse in Richmond, Va., is the home of the nationally recognized "rocket docket." Cases move quickly in Richmond, more quickly than in any other courthouse in the federal system. Vick's lawyers will be looking for delays and for time to prepare a defense, but the trial likely would begin in a matter of four to six months.

Are the federal authorities in Richmond tough on crime?

Ask Ralph Sampson, the former NBA star. He fell behind in child support payments to seven children that he had with four women, the kind of thing that is ordinarily worked out in a settlement. But instead of a settlement, Sampson found himself charged with felonies in federal court. And then, very quickly, he found himself in jail for two months on a child support charge. Yes, they're tough on crime in Richmond, and they might be particularly tough on crimes involving the torture and killing of dogs.'s Lester Munson is a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years.
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Getbig V
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« Reply #76 on: July 18, 2007, 10:31:34 AM »

So someone saw him do it? Or said they saw him do it?

Numerous people have given federal statements stating they witnessed it, in 5 mins CNN will have a undercover interview with one of the witnesses.
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Getbig V
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« Reply #77 on: July 18, 2007, 10:55:04 AM »

Vick's nothing but a punk who has gotten mainly accolades and passes on his performance over the years without delivering.

The Falcons were screwed either way: if he's out their reliance on him ruins their season, vs. letting him play this year only to confirm under yet another coach that they go nowhere with him in control.
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« Reply #78 on: July 18, 2007, 12:17:16 PM »

He won't,  Blank will be told by the NFL to sit him. This is a huge black eye to the league. Larger then anthing they have faced in a long time. U won't get protesters for DUI's and drugs but PETA and the other groups will be up in arms about this. The NFL does not need this kind of press coverage. Its been way to successful to let some scrambling hack with dubious skills as a QB, ruin their reputation.
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Getbig V
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« Reply #79 on: July 18, 2007, 02:40:33 PM »

Recent article, followed by some gems from readers:

What’s Next for N.F.L. and Michael Vick?

NY Times

This morning’s story on an indictment that ties Michael Vick to a slew of ugly dogfighting charges left off with the question of “how the league, the Falcons and Vick would deal with his legal troubles in the weeks ahead.”

We asked Judy Battista, N.F.L. reporter for The Times, to pick up from there. She kindly obliged us, explaining why she thinks the N.F.L. may “tread carefully”:
I think the NFL can do whatever it wants, theoretically. In previous cases, they have not waited for players to be convicted to discipline them under the new personal conduct policy.

Pacman Jones was suspended because he was repeatedly in run-ins with the law and because he “embarrassed” the league. So, theoretically, the NFL could discipline Vick whenever it wants.

However, I think they’ll tread carefully. This is Vick’s first offense, even though the indictment indicates he’s been breaking the law for years. But he has never been arrested in the past, has had no prior trouble, like Jones did, so the NFL might be reluctant to slap him with a suspension before letting it play out a bit in the courts.
And Vick is by far the highest profile player to be in this serious a mess. Most fans wouldn’t know Pacman Jones if he walked into their living rooms. But Vick is one of a handful of NFL players who are recognizable. He is one of the highest paid players in the game and he is the face of the Falcons. That puts the team and the league in a tough spot.

On the other hand, Roger Goodell has made improving the behavior of players a cornerstone of his tenure as commissioner. He has not hesitated to deal quickly and harshly with players who misbehave. Vick’s alleged crimes are particularly horrible, and the kind of thing that generates enormous outrage from the public.

How the commissioner balances that against a desire to give Vick every opportunity to clear his name will be interesting to follow.

15 comments so far...

1.July 18th,
5:29 pm From what I’ve read about this case, there is very very little doubt that Vick is guilty. The horrors of the vicious executions of the dogs, not to mention the fighting, make me wonder if this brainless jock has any morals at all. I think he shouldn’t just be banned from the sport, but punished extremely, possibly by a 2-year tour in Baghdad.

— Posted by Dan Stackhouse
2.July 18th,
5:37 pm If Vick is guilty, I would love to see him electrocuted. I’ll volunteer to happily pull the switch!

— Posted by Cheri Lazar
3.July 18th,
5:42 pm If he’s guilty as charged, he should be chopped up and fed to the dogs!

— Posted by gershon
4.July 18th,
5:47 pm The NFL is crazy if they have even the slightest inclination to go easy on a guy who will plausibly be labeled as a “puppy killer”. Please also remember that PETA’s headquarters are right down the road from where this inhumane atrocity took place. This is going to be a public relations nightmare.

— Posted by Roger
5.July 18th,
5:48 pm Unless Vick starts going into the homes of American football fans and killing their dogs, I don’t see fans caring a whole hell of a lot about this. From the reports I’ve read, the whole affair sounds sordid and disgusting, but considering what some professional athletes have been accused of (and in some cases convicted of) doing to humans, I think this story is going to be one of those things that peters out quickly.

— Posted by J
6.July 18th,
5:49 pm What does dog-fighting have to do with football? Or should I say ‘Football’? People were dog-fighting long before football.

— Posted by colin campbell
7.July 18th,
5:52 pm If he is guilty he should be banned from the NFL and prosecuted for cruelty to animals. There is no excuse.

— Posted by Paul Gabbert
8.July 18th,
5:53 pm Vick is already implicated but he remains innocent. If Goodell takes action against Vick it only raises the bar for the NFL as this allegation unfolds. It becomes a soft acknowledgment that Vick is guilty. That is a poor decision for both the NFL and Goodell. I assume Goodell will not take corrective action until further evidence is presented that will bring an indictment against Vick.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a ‘fall guy’ pops up that takes the heat off Vick and this fades away.

— Posted by Marcus Torchia
9.July 18th,
5:55 pm I think that the same policy that are placed on young male canines should be applied on Mr. Vick although my guess is that he has sired a lot of little Vick puppies in his few years. What a culture!

— Posted by Charles Cohen
10.July 18th,
5:56 pm # 2 Cheri Lazar suggests that Vick’s life is less valuable than the life of dogs. Says a lot about her

— Posted by Kwadwo
11.July 18th,
5:59 pm Michael Vick and his brother, Marcus, are both common thugs who have a misplaced sense of entitlement because of their athletic prowress. Michael was quick to defend his brother after Marcus was dismissed from the Virginia Tech football squad for a litany of thug-like behaviors and run-ins with the law. This may be the first time the elder Vick has faced charges, but remember, the allegations are that he has been engaging in horrendous and on-going criminal activity for about five years; this is not like a first-time offense committed by an upstanding citizen. Michael Vick is a scumbag who belongs in prison and deserves a life-time ban from professional football.

— Posted by James
12.July 18th,
6:00 pm Vick’s even peripheral involvement with dog fighting on his property is at the least shameful and negligent, and at the most vicious, cruel, and iniquitous. Either way, it is evidence of a lack of integrity and decency. This “sport” gives humanity a bad name.

— Posted by v Paiz
13.July 18th,
6:01 pm I am completely overwhelmed by this story and feel great disgust in this man. I never liked him before and I certainly don’t like him now. He is a poor excuse for an athlete and role model. Kids look up to these “superstars” and this is a terrible thing for them to see. I hope he is charged with the multiple crimes and is sentenced to the highest level of punishment possible. He does not deserve to be making millions and walking around the streets as if he did nothing wrong! Who does he think he is??? No animal deserves to be treated this way!!!

— Posted by Alana Medlin
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« Reply #80 on: July 18, 2007, 04:02:31 PM »

great article from gregg doyel on cbs sportsline:

Michael Vick can't play this season. You know that, right? He cannot play. Not for the Atlanta Falcons. Not for anybody, not anywhere, not at any time. Not until he is clear of the charges leveled against him by the federal government.

And if he's not cleared of those charges? If he's found guilty of sponsoring a macabre dogfighting ring? Then the NFL has seen the last of Michael Vick.

Distractions will follow Michael Vick and the Falcons every step of the way if he plays. (Getty Images)   
Don't give me "due process." Look around you. Do you see a court of law? Do you see a judge, a jury, a lawyer, a bailiff? The NFL is not the U.S. judicial system, and for the sake of this argument, Michael Vick is not a defendant. He's a football player who has been accused of something so serious, something so heinous, that the NFL cannot in good faith allow him to represent the most popular sports league in this country.

Don't give me "innocent until proven guilty." Michael Vick has no inalienable right to play football this season or any season for the Atlanta Falcons. Our colonial militia didn't throw tea in the Boston Harbor so Michael Vick, some 230 years later, could play football for the Falcons. U.S. soldiers have not died in wars all over the world, and are not dying right now in the Middle East, so Michael Vick can throw a football.

Don't give me "the presumption of innocence." The NFL isn't deciding whether Vick will spend the rest of his life behind bars. The NFL only has to decide whether Vick should, or should not, be allowed to play while the most sordid sports story in years plays out.

Michael Vick simply cannot play this season. Surely you understand that. His first court date is July 26, the same day the Falcons are scheduled to begin training camp. That's a nice touch, but think further ahead to when the Falcons are getting ready for their season opener Sept. 9 at Minnesota. At the same time he will be trying to prepare his offense for the Vikings, Vick will be helping prepare his defense for a nasty court case that will decide his freedom.

He won't be ready to play for the Falcons. Not at quarterback, where the mental side is so critical. It wouldn't be fair to Vick to ask him to play with this court case hanging over his head, and if it sounds like I'm being sympathetic to Vick's plight, I'm not. He has been accused of crimes that offend me greatly, and if he's found guilty, I hope he spends so much time in jail that he dies there. Dog fighting? Dog killing? Only the scum of the earth partake in such an atrocity.

Think ahead to Sept. 16, when the Falcons visit Jacksonville. There are also trips to Tennessee, New Orleans, Carolina, St. Louis, Tampa Bay and Phoenix. In every city, Michael Vick will bring the circus. Animal cruelty foes will picket stadiums. Fans will be ugly, maybe cruel, possibly even criminal. Things will be thrown at Vick. Things will be yelled.

For those eight Sundays on the road, Michael Vick will be hated like no visiting player has ever been hated.

Baseball villain Barry Bonds thinks he has it tough when he goes on the road? Bonds is only accused of being a jerk and a cheat. Vick has been accused of killing dogs, which ought to earn him the malice of even the home crowd. Any idea how many NFL fans own a dog? Me neither, but it's a large number. And every last one of them should hate Vick. At this moment I do, and he hasn't even been found guilty yet.

But he has been charged, and not just anywhere. He has been charged in federal court, and for those who don't know what that means, let me tell you: It means Vick is almost certainly guilty. According to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, 99 percent of the people indicted by the federal government between 2000 and 2005 were convicted.

Did you catch that number? It was 99 percent. Guilty. How can that be? This is how: The U.S. government doesn't indict just anybody, and certainly wouldn't indict Vick or anyone else for headlines. The government is far too busy and far too cheap to waste its time and money pursuing a trial against a defendant that has even a remote chance of winning. The U.S. government only indicts you if it believes it can and will convict you.

The NFL has to know that percentage. So does Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank. They have to know that Michael Vick, in all probability -- say, 99 percent -- will be convicted of masterminding a dogfighting operation. And if he is convicted, he will go to jail for a long, long time. Which means his NFL career is finished.

So why let him play now? This isn't a guy who deserves the benefit of the doubt. He has shown horrible judgment over and over, from the Ron Mexico herpes incident to the middle finger he showed the home crowd to the James Bond water bottle he used in an unsuccessful attempt at sneaking marijuana jewelry onto an airplane. None of those cases led to any sort of conviction in a court of law, but Pacman Jones is serving a one-year suspension from the NFL and as of today, he has been convicted of nothing. He hasn't even been indicted by the federal government, as Vick has.

The Falcons deserve some relief, too. They would take a huge salary cap hit for releasing Vick, but that hit should be waived. The Falcons should not be forced to keep a poisonous person because of NFL salary cap ramifications. That is not the way anyone should want the NFL to operate. It's in the best interests of everyone in the NFL for Michael Vick to never again wear a uniform, so the Falcons should be cut some slack for releasing him.

The bleeding hearts among you -- the Vick fans, the gullible, the blind -- want to know how the NFL can keep an innocent man off the field.

I've got a better question:

How could the NFL possibly let him play?

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« Reply #81 on: July 18, 2007, 05:45:44 PM »

Marcus vick is ashamed to be his brother  Grin
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« Reply #82 on: July 19, 2007, 06:56:47 AM »

He won't,  Blank will be told by the NFL to sit him. This is a huge black eye to the league. Larger then anthing they have faced in a long time. U won't get protesters for DUI's and drugs but PETA and the other groups will be up in arms about this. The NFL does not need this kind of press coverage. Its been way to successful to let some scrambling hack with dubious skills as a QB, ruin their reputation.

He's a fucking hoodlum tailback that throws interceptions.

I hope they chuck his ass in prison...

Some of the losing dogs were murdered in his backyard.. Had their skulls smashed and their bodies burned. Jesus, even China treats their dogs better.
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« Reply #83 on: July 19, 2007, 04:27:20 PM »

I am a dog person and give money to peta and i have met Vick and he is a thug. I am not surprised that Clinton Portis would say something like that because he is from THE "U" and Chris Samuels laughing about it. Dog fighting is happening all across the country and i cannot even imagine doing what Vick and his friends did to those dogs. I was attacked by a pit bull and needed 22 stitches in my right knee but still love them. When you have a 130 million dollar contract plus endorsements how and why in the hell would you even be associated with people who dog fight? Even as a "regular Joe" i would not even associate myself with people as low as dog fighters but the face of a franchise, gimme a break.
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« Reply #84 on: July 20, 2007, 04:52:16 PM »

N.F.L. Is Under Pressure Over Vick
         July 21, 2007
As animal rights activists demonstrated yesterday in front of the N.F.L.’s headquarters to urge the league to suspend Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, the league continued to grapple with the fallout from Vick’s federal indictment on charges related to dogfighting.

The league has decided not to suspend Vick immediately, preferring to wait for the case to progress. But N.F.L. and Falcons executives have discussed other options.

The delay in discipline has displeased some. Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, sent a letter to Commissioner Roger Goodell yesterday, encouraging Goodell to suspend Vick immediately. And about 50 people joined a demonstration organized by the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals in front of the N.F.L.’s Park Avenue headquarters, some of them chanting “Sack Vick.”

Goodell was not at his office during the protest. Instead, he was meeting with officials from the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. Earlier this year, the N.F.L. and A.S.P.C.A. began working together on public-service announcements and programs to help educate players and the public on treating animals properly.

“We agree with them that dogfighting is cruel, degrading and illegal,” the N.F.L. spokesman Brian McCarthy said of the demonstrators. “The alleged activities are very disturbing and we are extremely disappointed Michael Vick has put himself in this position.”

Vick is scheduled to be arraigned Thursday in Richmond, Va., and could join the Falcons on Friday.

Among the many options N.F.L. and Falcons executives have discussed since the indictment was announced Tuesday is asking Vick to take a paid leave of absence from the team. That would relieve the Falcons of the possible distraction at Coach Bobby Petrino’s first training camp.
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