What makes a Pro, a Pro?

[Always Sore]

I beg to differ....

PROFESSIONAL

A professional is a worker required to possess a large body of knowledge derived from extensive academic study (usually tertiary), with the training almost always formalized.

Professions are at least to a degree self-regulating, in that they control the training and evaluation processes that admit new persons to the field, and in judging whether the work done by their members is up to standard. This differs from other kinds of work where regulation (if considered necessary) is imposed by the state, or where official quality standards are often lacking. Professions have some historical links to Guilds in these regards.

Professionals usually have autonomy in the workplace - they are expected to utilize their independent judgement and professional ethics in carrying out their responsibilities. This holds true even if they are employees instead of working on their own. Typically a professional provides a service (in exchange for payment or salary), in accordance with established protocols for licensing, ethics, procedures, standards of service and training / certification.

In narrow usage, not all expertise is considered a profession. Although sometimes referred to as professions, such occupations as skilled construction work are more generally thought of as trades or crafts. The completion of an apprenticeship is generally associated with skilled labor or trades such as carpenter, electrician, plumber, and other similar occupations. A related (though not always valid) distinction would be that a professional does mainly mental or administrative work, as opposed to engaging in physical work.

-----> Many IFBB Pros do not have a sponsorhip or even a Weider contract, so they don't get paid anything and need to take money out of their own pocket to buy the drugs and supplements in order to compete, doesn't that defeat the definition of a pro being someone who: Typically a professional provides a service (in exchange for payment or salary)

That in this case would be his body correct? Appearing at events in shape (or close) and talking about themselves or what they are doing and taking home a check..service and payment=professional.

[OneMoreRep]

no that would make you a professional dancer or stripper or..well you get my point. I am talking getting paid to work out and eat and show up at events and sign stuff. either by contract or endorsment. You could do that without winning any events and IMO that makes you a pro. Different then what other people may write but it's my 2 cents.I don't think it takes winning the super bowl to be considered a pro football player.

Dude, the guy in my scenario is a bodybuilder who works out year in and out and gets paid by these gay dudes to buy food, drugs, train and show up at gay bars and sign stuff and also to get into trunks, covered in baby oil and pose for a room full of gay men, the same gay men, which will judge him at the end of the night and let him know what he needs to work on.  To add to that, this same bodybuilder can be sharing that spotlight (room full of gay men) with 4 other bodybuilders that are competing with him to get a trophy that night and or maybe an increase in his pay.

[OneMoreRep]

That in this case would be his body correct? Appearing at events in shape (or close) and talking about themselves or what they are doing and taking home a check..service and payment=professional.

So back to my example with the bodybuilder that trains year in and out, and poses only for gay men.  He provides a service and receives a payment, is he now a Pro because the united league of homosexuals pay him a salary of $80,000 to trains year round, eat properly, take posing classes, and you get the point..

[Always Sore]

Dude, the guy in my scenario is a bodybuilder who works out year in and out and gets paid by these gay dudes to buy food, drugs, train and show up at gay bars and sign stuff and also to get into trunks, covered in baby oil and pose for a room full of gay men, the same gay men, which will judge him at the end of the night and let him know what he needs to work on.  To add to that, this same bodybuilder can be sharing that spotlight (room full of gay men) with 4 other bodybuilders that are competing with him to get a trophy that night and or maybe an increase in his pay.

If you take the gay out of your paragraph then what you have is a bodybuilding compitition with a winner and a check, that seems to me to equal professional as per your definition.

[OneMoreRep]

Professionals "COMPETE" for Prize Money, Amateurs Don't, end story.

Shawn, I respect your attempts to answer the question, but I think we are going to have to leave this one to good old Robert Michael.  If that statement you made holds true, then being a professional bodybuilder has lost its value in this industry since the PDI has been giving pro cards to amateurs at will.  Hence, why your statement holds no weight..

[OneMoreRep]

If you take the gay out of your paragraph then what you have is a bodybuilding compitition with a winner and a check, that seems to me to equal professional as per your definition.

Yeah, but that same bodybuilder wouldn't be considered a PRO bodybuilder by an IFBB pro.

[Always Sore]

So back to my example with the bodybuilder that trains year in and out, and poses only for gay men.  He provides a service and receives a payment, is he now a Pro because the united league of homosexuals pay him a salary of $80,000 to trains year round, eat properly, take posing classes, and you get the point..

I agree in theory, if you have a league of bodybuilders/football players/fisherman and you have a contest and declare a winner then you have a professional. there are many world champino boxers and boxing associations one is no less different or better then the next. The guys who won in the WBF (Vince) may have never competed before or after and would have by definition professional bodybuilders, being paid to do there job.

[Always Sore]

Yeah, but that same bodybuilder wouldn't be considered a PRO bodybuilder by an IFBB pro.

Just because one body won't recognise another does not change the status of the person in that body.

[OneMoreRep]

I agree in theory, if you have a league of bodybuilders/football players/fisherman and you have a contest and declare a winner then you have a professional. there are many world champino boxers and boxing associations one is no less different or better then the next. The guys who won in the WBF (Vince) may have never competed before or after and would have by definition professional bodybuilders, being paid to do there job.

See, that there is the problem Im trying to figure out.  Just because someone off the streets gets picked up and paid to go into a classroom to teach a class doesn't make them a teacher.  Likewise, there has to be something that makes a professional bodybuilder a professional, because as I stated before, some of these IFBB pros never see any money, hence the issue of needing to get paid to be a professional becomes null and void..

[OneMoreRep]

Just because one body won't recognise another does not change the status of the person in that body.

So then, every gym owner can start his own federation and by way of granting out titles determine that all of his gym members are pros and that would hold true then yes?

[OneMoreRep]

Gentlemen,

I need to take a shit now and because of it, will not be able to respond to any of the answers/ideas provided for a few hours (Thus, I fancy myself a professional defecator)..

be back..

"1"

[Always Sore]

See, that there is the problem Im trying to figure out.  Just because someone off the streets gets picked up and paid to go into a classroom to teach a class doesn't make them a teacher.  Likewise, there has to be something that makes a professional bodybuilder a professional, because as I stated before, some of these IFBB pros never see any money, hence the issue of needing to get paid to be a professional becomes null and void..

See your confusing being good with doing a job. You can walk off the street and teach (learning annix) about a subject you know or hell something made up (building relationships 101) thus you get a check and are considered a "teacher". Just because you get a check for doing a job does not make you good. Just because a bodybuilder has a pro card and makes money does not make him good. You think the term professional relates to knowledge or skill IMHO it does not. There is a wide gap between being a paid to do a job as your profession and being a expert in the field of your profession.

[omg]

what makes a pro? lots of drugs, some synthol, lots of self obsession,spending years in gym, lazing around living on mom's food to 'fight for your pro card' , sometimes gay for pay

just about covers everything

[Brutal_1]

True quote from an IFBB pro here in So Cal:

"The only difference between pros and amateurs is the amount of drugs, that's it!  There's no SPECIAL way of training or dieting..." 

For obvious reasons I'll keep his name confidential 

[Always Sore]

So then, every gym owner can start his own federation and by way of granting out titles determine that all of his gym members are pros and that would hold true then yes?

Thats how leagues or federations get started. Some guy fronts the cash gets a name and a set of rules. Others join, some sort of organization or contest is held, some win or place and rankings are made and the top people are considered pro's by that group. If it's not reconised by other larger groups then people fight about it. If it is santioned then status is achieved. If that group has enough people that that like the group and the pro's and start to throw cash that direction then it gains fame and with that the general view of people from the outside is its a "real" group and identifies it's top people as Pro's. The USFL in football is a good example, they tried to take on the bigger NFL and it's players became pro's not because of the NFL but in spite of it. IF a new bodybuilding group opposed to the IFBB started up and had a bankroll to make it bigger and better and offer more then after some time it would overshadow the IFBB and a new group of PRO's would be born.

[ToxicAvenger]

There are many examples of the kind of people you just mentioned.
They run the gamit from being Intelligent, Stupid, Ridiculous, Entrepreneurs, Murderer's, Porn Stars, Doctors, Specialists, Etc.
Take a good look at our President of the USA, not the sharpest Tool in the box but he is in the White House nonetheless.

Shawanna tells himself this everynite before dreaming of never winning the O 


..always the brides maid...eh shawanna 

[BM OUT]

I dont get the point that there is no skill involved in becoming a pro bodybuilder.Its not a skill in the traditional sense of the word,but there is a skill involved in it.Training year after year is a skill,so is eating right day after day,so is enduring the same thing everday ,day after day.Its funny,most of us work at jobs that a monkey could do and think we are doing something good,but a pro bodybuilder gets ripped for being a one in a million guy.Tell me,what skill is there to driving a truck,or stocking shelves or banging nails.Bodybuilding is a test of ones will and the ones who make it cetainly have done something great.

[OneMoreRep]

I dont get the point that there is no skill involved in becoming a pro bodybuilder.Its not a skill in the traditional sense of the word,but there is a skill involved in it.Training year after year is a skill,so is eating right day after day,so is enduring the same thing everday ,day after day.Its funny,most of us work at jobs that a monkey could do and think we are doing something good,but a pro bodybuilder gets ripped for being a one in a million guy.Tell me,what skill is there to driving a truck,or stocking shelves or banging nails.Bodybuilding is a test of ones will and the ones who make it cetainly have done something great.

Billy,

If your job entails driving a truck, stocking shelves or banging nails, I feel sorry for you.  Some of us actually have college degrees, post-grad degrees and make "REAL" money saving lives, defending clients in a court setting and even investing in real estate.  Whereas you might think your job is one that a monkey could do, not everyone shares that sentiment. 

(As per your comment up top in bold)
Training year after year isn't a skill.  These guys do it, because if not for bodybuilding they probably wouldn't have anything else to fall back on.  Again, as I have stated previously, these guys don't train on their own, instead they hire PROFESSIONAL trainers to train them.  "Eating right day after day" is not something a professional bodybuilder does.  Day after day for 80% of the year a PRO bodybuilder is fat and disgusting carrying in excess of over 60 - 80 pounds of weight, horrible for the heart and as aesthetically pleasing as Elton John in a Fitness contest for competitors aged 10 and below.

Everyone/Anyone CAN be a bodybuilder, but not everyone can become a doctor, lawyer, engineer or businessman (loosely used). 

Hell, don't even get me started about how the bulk of these "pros" make due by selling drugs and selling themselves to the gay population to make ends meet.  Highly unprofessional..

"1" 

[Always Sore]

Billy,

If your job entails driving a truck, stocking shelves or banging nails, I feel sorry for you.  Some of us actually have college degrees, post-grad degrees and make "REAL" money saving lives, defending clients in a court setting and even investing in real estate.  Whereas you might think your job is one that a monkey could do, not everyone shares that sentiment. 

(As per your comment up top in bold)
Training year after year isn't a skill.  These guys do it, because if not for bodybuilding they probably wouldn't have anything else to fall back on.  Again, as I have stated previously, these guys don't train on their own, instead they hire PROFESSIONAL trainers to train them.  "Eating right day after day" is not something a professional bodybuilder does.  Day after day for 80% of the year a PRO bodybuilder is fat and disgusting carrying in excess of over 60 - 80 pounds of weight, horrible for the heart and as aesthetically pleasing as Elton John in a Fitness contest for competitors aged 10 and below.

Everyone/Anyone CAN be a bodybuilder, but not everyone can become a doctor, lawyer, engineer or businessman (loosely used). 

Hell, don't even get me started about how the bulk of these "pros" make due by selling drugs and selling themselves to the gay population to make ends meet.  Highly unprofessional..

"1" 

1st, not anyone can be a bodybuilder. You can be born without a arm or leg or have some sort of illness that no matter what you do or take you will not put on muscle. You can be a cripple and become a doctor or lawyer or businessman,ect. Unless your mentally challenged given the support and time you can do anything in the above fields except bodybuilding. Training may not be a skill in your opinion but whats the difference between bodybuilding and football or baseball or golf? Being consistent in your chossen field will take you a long away and set you apart. Not everyone is willing to make the sacrifice it takes to be a bodybuilder, same as being a doctor.

I think IMHO your confusing moraility with job choice. If you choose to be a doctor and you push yourself to far for to long you can die (car crash from lack of sleep,mental breakdown,ect) same as with bodybuilding. Anything you do to excess will get you. Just because a bodybuilder has to break the current law (IN the USA) does not take from the choice and drive and desire to make it the same as a havard law or johns hopkins doctor it's just different.

[Chick]

What is it that makes these so-called Professional bodybuilders, professional?  Besides the fact that they get paid to pose on stage and might, if lucky, get some sponsorship, what truly sets them out as a professional in their field?

What sets us apart, isthe fact that each and every one has achieved a level of success that deemed us worthy of comepting as a "professional" in the most recognized federation in the world...no different than being accepted into the NFL as a pro ball player.


You don't have to belong to the IFBB to get paid like a Pro bodybuilder, you can work privately and get sponsorship and income by way of the GAY-4-PAY network.  So that dismisses the idea that if a person gets paid to do what they do, they, by way of default, are considered professional.

As a professional "bodybuilder" you compete in a organized (IFBB) competition for a purse, and work in the businesss of bodybuilding i.e.- supp company/ appearances/ seminars, etc...legitimate business, not bullshit.


A doctor knows his craft well enough that he can work on his own, a teacher knows his subject matter in a way that he is self-sufficient and capable of providing his students with what they need based on his knowledge base...etc..  What does a Professional bodybuilder truly know?

They knew enough to earn themselves a pro card in the IFBB...many dr.'s, lawyers, etc. consult with others in the field that may have expertise in certain areas...whether or not a pro bb decides to use someone to maximize their potential, or not, doesn't take away from their title of professional...no more than pro baseball players using a batting/ pitching coach.

Pros hire both a trainer and a nutritionist most of the time they compete or even train year round.  If they need a professional trainer like Charles Glass to train them, what makes "them" a Professional at bodybuilding?  If they need to hire a nutritionist like Chad Nicholls, Tom Prince or even Chris Aceto, what makes "them" a professional at proper bodybuilding diets?

Once again...the "status" is one of being deemed a professional, not the resources one chooses. The majority of pro's earned their pro cards without any "guru" helping...that comes along later when you're looking to expand your knowledge..much like a professional taking courses in their chosen field to further their education.


In other words, once you take the training and the eating out of the equation, what the hell else is left?

Training and eating ARE part of the equation....you dont take them out anymore than you would take out "hitting and catching" for a baseball player.

Genetics you can't change and/or even influence unless you are into breeding humans. 

The only thing these guys might be actually pros at is injecting themselves in the ass with hormones and site injections of esiclene...

Again, this goes out to all the so-called pros here, what makes you a Pro?

Shawn is a great example of being a "pro"....Shawn earned his pro card early in his career, and to this day, has made his living with his craft...being a pro bodybuilder...winning prize money, securing endorsement deals, making appearances, guest posing all over the world, putting on seminars and camps, and most recently, promoting.....He has never to this day, ever held a "regular job"....

There are various levels of how successful one may be as a "pro"...but it doesn't diminish the value or title.

[HowieW]

What makes a Pro a Pro is quite simple and has been spelled out for many years:
WIN the Pro Qualification Show:

Overall and 1st Runner up at the Mr. USA
All Class Winners at the NPC Nationals
Overall Champion at the North American
Universe Class Winners
Team Uniiverse Winner

Petition the IFBB ala:
* Milos Sarcev, Lee Priest, JJ Marsh and few others from around the way via Wayne Demilia Glory Days of yore!

Shawn, I agree that earning your way into the IFBB pro ranks is the one true pro level standard.
The IFBB is not the only pro div, we have many others like the PDI and pro "natural" organizations.However, in my opinion, the IFBB pros ranks is similar to the NFL or NBA in terms of status within their sport.
In the case of Milos and Lee P, they were national champs, so why not consider that legit as well?

The NPC masters nationals is giving out a pro card now as well.
One thing that is good about the NPC, is that you can compete in a variety of top shows, even drug tested ones like the Team U and climb the ladder to the top, if ya got the right stuff. With Kai Green making a big impact now, it shows that giving the Team U winner a pro card was a smart move. is Kai still natural , now as a pro? Doubt it, but who cares. My pt is that ANYONE with the right genetics and hardcore training/diet can EARN   an IFBB pro card. Even a drug free  or over 40 guy can earn one now. What they decide to do after they turn pro is up to them of course  . Not too many sports offer that kind of open "try out".
The figure/fitness div is also a wonderful chance for those ladies NOT wanting extreme muscularity to still compete and become a pro in different kind of physique class.

[onlyme]

A Pro is not a Pro just because he has a Pro Card.  Thats where Sean and a few others have it wrong.  An IFBB Pro Card signifies you are now able to compete and make money competing.  It does not guarantee it, it only allows you to try.  Which is fine.  Being a professional means how you make yourself look to the public on AND off the stage, court or field.  You may do great in competition and make some money doing it, but if you are an asshole when you aren't competing, then you really are a sad example of a "professional."  You are representing something that many people admire and they look up to professionals.  WHen a professional acts like an asshole, it reflects on their personality and makes them look like amateurs.  As a professional, you have a responsibility to the fans and people who support you by buying tickets to the shows. magazines with your pics in them products with your name and pic on them.  Being a professional also means acting professional.  Too and Sean and a couple others can only say they are professional, but they are far from it.

[texasbubba]

A Pro is not a Pro just because he has a Pro Card.  Thats where Sean and a few others have it wrong.  An IFBB Pro Card signifies you are now able to compete and make money competing.  It does not guarantee it, it only allows you to try.  Which is fine.  Being a professional means how you make yourself look to the public on AND off the stage, court or field.  You may do great in competition and make some money doing it, but if you are an asshole when you aren't competing, then you really are a sad example of a "professional."  You are representing something that many people admire and they look up to professionals.  WHen a professional acts like an asshole, it reflects on their personality and makes them look like amateurs.  As a professional, you have a responsibility to the fans and people who support you by buying tickets to the shows. magazines with your pics in them products with your name and pic on them.  Being a professional also means acting professional.  Too and Sean and a couple others can only say they are professional, but they are far from it.

Your lips to your ears bro....

[Disgusted]

Appearently a phone call to the PDI

Thought you had a house to move into today according to your alter ego Texas Fife. 

[texasbubba]

Thought you had a house to move into today according to your alter ego Texas Fife. 

Alter ego...who are you talking too?  Shawn is moving in to his house...call him.