Author Topic: Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question  (Read 5073 times)

Ron

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Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question
« on: June 20, 2007, 09:54:16 AM »
Someone sent me this question, they want a serious answer, so is goes...


I came across your website tonight because I was searching for sources of amino acids and the article "Amino Acids & Bodybuilding" came up.

I'd really appreciate your help if you could tell me which products sold by health food shops will deliver amino acids to the muscles and tissues in the body.  From my 'basic' understanding of the article, the one I need to look for has to do with pure free form amino acid.

I'd really appreciate your assistance and advice.  My question isn't related to body building but to healing my dog Daisy who is 10 years old and has been diagnosed with a rare liver disease which doesn't utilise the amino acids correctly to supply her body with the nutrition she needs.  I'm desperate for some way to heal her as she is getting weaker and can't walk.

The disease she has is Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis and there is no treatment.  I've basically been told to give her two egg yolks a day and some Synthamin which is a liquid form of amino acids but it's not really helping.  I am hoping that the free form amino acid mentioned in the article on your website might be better for her.  I haven't heard of it before and would appreciate if you could give me more information on brand names that you trust and know are of a good quality so that I will know what to ask for at my local health shop.

Thank you so much and I look forward to hearing from you....

~flower~

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Re: Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2007, 10:23:55 AM »
From what I know about this disease (little) it is prognosis poor.  :(  High protein diets may help or prolong the life.   Assuming this is a kibble fed dog, a raw diet may be of help.  The proteins would not be denatured by cooking and be more bio-available to the dog. 

  Vet may have some thoughts/experience (though he is more allopathic minded than me!  :) ) and I have put out an email looking for someone with experience with this.


  My best wishes and thoughts go out to Daisy and her owner.
 


   Treatment: If a pancreatic or liver tumor is identified and able to be surgically excised, the skin lesions may normalize for an extended period of time, but because these tumors metastasize (spread to other areas of the body) quickly, surgery is not curative. In cases of end stage liver disease, surgery is not possible, and the goal of therapy is to increase quality of life and decrease uncomfortable skin lesions with supportive care and addressing the nutritional abnormalities. Supportive care includes supplementing protein and necessary minerals and enzymes through the diet and oral supplements or by weekly intravenous amino acid infusions that are performed in the hospital on an outpatient basis until improvement in the skin is noted. Unfortunately, despite the supportive care, the disease will progress.

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Re: Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2007, 10:35:56 AM »
It is clear that cutaneous lesions of metabolic epidermal necrosis in the dog can occur either with a demonstrable glucagon-secreting tumor or with hepatic disease without any detectable glucagonoma. Additional clinical case reports of the disease in cats are needed to better characterize the disease in this species. The lesions of NME-MEN may not represent a specific physiological mechanism of cutaneous disease but instead a pathophysiological process that can be triggered by several systemic metabolic abnormalities. The fact that NME is observed in association with a variety of conditions supports the theory that an overall metabolic derangement results in the rash. The prognosis for canine MEN is poor; however, some affected dogs have been maintained for many months with dietary management. High-quality protein diets such as Hill's Prescription Diet a/d (Hill's Pet Products) or other "recovery" diets may be helpful. Zinc and essential fatty acid supplementation may help some patients. Dietary supplementation with cooked egg yolks may be helpful. It is prudent to avoid corticosteroids in these cases, as development of diabetes mellitus worsens the prognosis. Histopathological examination of the pancreas coupled with determination of plasma glucagon may help define the characteristics of GS versus HS in dogs. It is possible that some dogs diagnosed with MEN-HS may have an undetected pancreatic tumor. Although the hepatic ultrasound findings in dogs with MEN-HS are becoming well characterized, it is possible for dogs with pancreatic neuroendocrine tumors to also have abnormal hepatic ultrasonography. As the presence of MEN and hepatic disease does not necessarily rule out the presence of a pancreatic tumor, prospective studies correlating plasma glucagon levels with pancreatic histopathology in cases of MEN-GS versus MEN-HS seem warranted.

PMID: 10563004 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Re: Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2007, 10:38:07 AM »
METABOLIC EPIDERMAL NECROSIS (HEPATOCUTANEOUS SYNDROME)

This disease (MEN) refers to a group of skin lesions and histological changes associated with an internal disease process. In the dog, MEN is usually associated with a vacuolar hepatopathy of unknown origin and much less frequently with glucagon-secreting tumors. In some cases, however, a hepatopathy due to the long-term use of anticonvulsant medications or to mycotoxin ingestion has been implicated. In the few cases involving the cat, MEN has been associated etiologically with pancreatic carcinoma, hepatopathies and thymic amyloidosis. The disease is typically seen in middle-aged to old animals with a history of relatively acute onset of alopecic, erythematous, exudative, coalescing papules and/or plaques with crusting, ulceration and occasionally vesiculation.

The lesions are usually located in the muzzle, distal extremities, footpads (hyperkeratosis, exfoliation, fissures, erosions), pressure points, mucocutaneous junctions and genitalia. Other noticeable signs are lethargy, partial anorexia and gradual weight loss. Polyuria and polydipsia are also seen, especially when the disease is complicated by diabetes mellitus, secondary to glucagonomas. Cutaneous lesions may precede the clinical onset of the underlying disease. A superficial perivascular to interface, cell-rich, dermatitis with marked diffuse parakeratotic hyperkeratosis and striking inter-and intracellular edema limited to the upper half of the epidermis are usually demonstrated by skin biopsies. Varying degrees of hypoaminoacidemia, hyperglucagonemia and hyperinsulinemia have been reported with both liver and pancreatic-associated MEN. Lack of specificity renders the diagnostic value of these tests questionable. In abdominal ultrasound, a "Swiss cheese" liver echotexture representing a hyperechoic network surrounding hypoechoic areas of parenchyma is diagnostic of vascular hepatopathy. This approach is frequently unremarkable in glucagonoma patients although pancreatic tumors or hepatic metastases are occasionally detected. Ultrasound-guided liver biopsies may reveal cirrhosis, vacuolar hepatopathy with cirrhosis, parenchymal collapse and nodular hyperplasia or toxic hepatopathy.

Unfortunately, the progression of the underlying hepatopathies is relentless but surgical excision of glucagonomas generally results in remission of all clinical signs although pancreatitis, biliary obstruction or metastatic disease may occur postoperatively. In an attempt to correct the nutritional deficit of epidermis, high-quality proteins (egg yolks, Hill's Prescription diet a/d, raw bovine or porcine pancreas) along with dietary zinc and fatty acid supplementation, are advocated. Intravenous amino acid supplementation, preferably as a hypertonic 10% crystalline solution (25 ml/Kg BW over 6-8 hours for 1-3 days) results in quick and effective decrease of pain and healing time of skin lesions. The use of octreotide for palliative control of glucagonoma-induced MEN is limited because of the expense and drug-resistance. Glucocorticoids aid in the resolution of the skin lesions but may cause a diabetic crisis. The long-term prognosis, especially if vacuolar hepatopathy is the underlying disease, is poor as most of the affected animals finally die up to 6 months from the time of diagnosis.

~flower~

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Re: Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2007, 05:01:43 PM »
Is she getting the Synthamin intraveneously?   That should be more effective than amino capsules? 

knny187

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Re: Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2007, 10:40:18 AM »
I bet Ron you were surprised to come across this email.

So far....Flower has come up with some interesting data....maybe someone will know if the Intravenous Amino Acids are the same (effectiveness & potency) as what we take as supplements.

G o a t b o y

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Re: Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2007, 04:18:54 PM »
Someone sent me this question, they want a serious answer


They do realize this is Getbig, right?  ;D
Ron: "I am lazy."

Princess L

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Re: Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2007, 07:17:12 PM »
Ron,

Have you been passing this information on?
:

~flower~

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Re: Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2007, 05:33:40 AM »
Yes, Ron, are you, or did you direct this person to the board?


    Princess L had made a great suggestion, if there is a vet school nearby give them a call.  They may have some new treatments or information.  It is definitely worth a call.

Vet

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Re: Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2007, 02:14:06 PM »
Hepatocutaneous syndrome is a very serious disease condition.....   I will say, I've never diagnosed it in any of my patients.  As a matter of fact, the last case I saw of it was nearly 6 years ago during my internship---one of my internmates diagnosed it in a terrier.   

Flower has pretty much summarized the disease with this post
Quote
METABOLIC EPIDERMAL NECROSIS (HEPATOCUTANEOUS SYNDROME)

This disease (MEN) refers to a group of skin lesions and histological changes associated with an internal disease process. In the dog, MEN is usually associated with a vacuolar hepatopathy of unknown origin and much less frequently with glucagon-secreting tumors. In some cases, however, a hepatopathy due to the long-term use of anticonvulsant medications or to mycotoxin ingestion has been implicated. In the few cases involving the cat, MEN has been associated etiologically with pancreatic carcinoma, hepatopathies and thymic amyloidosis. The disease is typically seen in middle-aged to old animals with a history of relatively acute onset of alopecic, erythematous, exudative, coalescing papules and/or plaques with crusting, ulceration and occasionally vesiculation.

The lesions are usually located in the muzzle, distal extremities, footpads (hyperkeratosis, exfoliation, fissures, erosions), pressure points, mucocutaneous junctions and genitalia. Other noticeable signs are lethargy, partial anorexia and gradual weight loss. Polyuria and polydipsia are also seen, especially when the disease is complicated by diabetes mellitus, secondary to glucagonomas. Cutaneous lesions may precede the clinical onset of the underlying disease. A superficial perivascular to interface, cell-rich, dermatitis with marked diffuse parakeratotic hyperkeratosis and striking inter-and intracellular edema limited to the upper half of the epidermis are usually demonstrated by skin biopsies. Varying degrees of hypoaminoacidemia, hyperglucagonemia and hyperinsulinemia have been reported with both liver and pancreatic-associated MEN. Lack of specificity renders the diagnostic value of these tests questionable. In abdominal ultrasound, a "Swiss cheese" liver echotexture representing a hyperechoic network surrounding hypoechoic areas of parenchyma is diagnostic of vascular hepatopathy. This approach is frequently unremarkable in glucagonoma patients although pancreatic tumors or hepatic metastases are occasionally detected. Ultrasound-guided liver biopsies may reveal cirrhosis, vacuolar hepatopathy with cirrhosis, parenchymal collapse and nodular hyperplasia or toxic hepatopathy.

Unfortunately, the progression of the underlying hepatopathies is relentless but surgical excision of glucagonomas generally results in remission of all clinical signs although pancreatitis, biliary obstruction or metastatic disease may occur postoperatively. In an attempt to correct the nutritional deficit of epidermis, high-quality proteins (egg yolks, Hill's Prescription diet a/d, raw bovine or porcine pancreas) along with dietary zinc and fatty acid supplementation, are advocated. Intravenous amino acid supplementation, preferably as a hypertonic 10% crystalline solution (25 ml/Kg BW over 6-8 hours for 1-3 days) results in quick and effective decrease of pain and healing time of skin lesions. The use of octreotide for palliative control of glucagonoma-induced MEN is limited because of the expense and drug-resistance. Glucocorticoids aid in the resolution of the skin lesions but may cause a diabetic crisis. The long-term prognosis, especially if vacuolar hepatopathy is the underlying disease, is poor as most of the affected animals finally die up to 6 months from the time of diagnosis.

Prognosis is generally guarded, no matter what the inciting cause, but determining the inciting cause is very important.  If you can treat/remove the inciting cause--ie change seizure medication if its due to phenobarbital, identify and remove the pancreatic tumor, etc, there is a chance of cure.  However, in reality, that chance is slim.

Here is an additional website with information/references that might be helpful. 
http://www.vin.com/Members/Associate/Associate.plx?DiseaseId=2865

The suggesting of getting the dog to a qualified internal medicine specialist (either at a college of veterinary medicine or at a regional referral hospital) is also a very good one.   

~flower~

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Re: Metabolic Epidermal Necrosis Question
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2007, 04:05:11 PM »
Thanks for your reply Vet.  I wish there was better news for this person, but I am glad to hear that this disease is not that common.