The Worst President in History?

[powerpack]

Most terrorist groups or rouge terrorist supporting countries do not play by the rules, but count on the west to do so!
Just look, no one likes blowing up civilians like the Arabs but no one is more horrified when it happens to them.
That is why they hate the Israelis, because they speak a language the Arabs understand "Blow up a hospital and we will blow up one of yours, fire rockets into our country and we will fire shells back etc"

Wether you hate Bush or not he was a definite check and a balance to those countries and organisations.
They came to realise that here is some one just as crazy as them WHO IS NOT SCARED TO DO WHAT THEY DO.
I think a saner man would have done a worse job, some times you need a crazy man in power.

[MikeThaMachine]

Do people on this board really read all that?

Are we rsolving political issues on here?

Are you guys coming up with any solutions and plans of actions

Exactly, everybody loves to criticize but no one wants to put their foot down and do something about what's supposedly so wrong and horrible.

[24KT]

Carter did nothing....absolutely NOTHING

Understand there were players undermining Carter's efforts every step of the way in preparation for an election.

Sure he did, he sat w/ a finger up his ass while The 1st Islamo Fascists took over Iran.

Ya, ...but who supported the Ayatollahs' rise to prominence, and recommended Carter do nothing?
(will ellaborate further later as time permits)

Ya, you got some good points OsmO, But recall that the Hostages were let go Pronto as soon as Ronnie Ray-Gun took the helm. They knew better.

Exactly! But was it fear that brought that about, ...or was it something else... like a pre-arranged release date, after all negotiations had been concluded? How many are aware that after the hostage incident, the US actually barred embassy hostages from filing suit against Iran for the ordeal they suffered? ...or for that matter, that it was the US (or rather the US taxpayer) that paid out reparations ...I'm not referring to payment to the hostages, but rather to Iran? Do you think they were paying the Iranians for the food... rent & boarding of their embassy employees for the last year? The very same people in charge at the time, are also the main players in this administration.

As far as dooing nothing, yes we'd be better off. I could Give him (W) a break as it's hindsight, but the Prez has  the best intell and Im sure they warned exactly of what we got in Iraq now.
The Isralies cant keep order and they heve a well established Govt and millitary. What? We gona go bargeing in and make everything peachy inthe land of stonings and beheading and mutilations .
Gross Negligence at a minimum. Some say we hanged the wrong one.

I read the transcripts of some of those debates, and they were so long, so boring, and arduous, that even I got hit with ADD, but that is exactly right. He was warned of exactly what would happen. Every scenario they predicted, ...has come to pass. Even tho they were forewarned, Rummy got on national TV and sold the population and bunch of lies "We'll be welcomed & greeted as liberators"  If that's how they greet their liberators, ...I'd hate to see the welcome if they were hostile.

...but then again I s'ppose he wasn't lying, ...they do see the coalition forces as liberators... liberating them of their oil.

 

[24KT]

-  Invading a country with out a good post invasion plan that covers potential problems IS incompetence.

-  Not consulting Colin Powell, the only person with real combat experience on your staff IS incompetence.

-  Assuming the Iraqis would just embrace democracy and act right as a result after the invasion IS incompetence.

-  Not securing the government buildings after the invasion of a repressed impoverished country IS incompetence.

-  Setting up ROE's that don;t allow your troops to protect said infrastructure IS incompetence.

-  Invading with too few men to secure a stable environment after the invasion IS incompetence.

None of the above had anything to do with the Generals.  These are strategic decisions.  Decisions that were made by men who were out of touch with reality while intoxicated with war fever.

BUSH and company who have the blood of 3500+ dead sons, brothers, and fathers on their hands from their irresponsible incompetence and people still make excuses for them.  Pathetic.

None of the above things were mistakes.  The problem was the ASSHAT (bush) was too busy believing he was on a holy mission from God to listen to anyone but Rummy the desk jockey.

Are we start talking about ice cream cones now? 

It's 4 years later and no end in sight.

Are the 3500 DEAD AMERICANS A LIE?  Is the media lying?

Is the violence everyday a lie from the media?

i can't believe people still try and pass me that media is making out to be worse than it is crap.  Save that for the neo-con rally.  They should go tell the mothers of the 3500+ dead soldiers that BULL SHIT.

What we can offer?   Can we offer safe local markets from suicide bombers?

Those people can't handle democracy yet.  But some people still hold to that fantasy as the reason we are there after being buffalo-ed by BUSH.

Brilliant assessment!!!     

I'd also add that in Bush's case, you can also use the words myopic and delusional interchangeably with incompetent.

[24KT]

Most terrorist groups or rouge terrorist supporting countries do not play by the rules, but count on the west to do so!
Just look, no one likes blowing up civilians like the Arabs but no one is more horrified when it happens to them.
That is why they hate the Israelis, because they speak a language the Arabs understand "Blow up a hospital and we will blow up one of yours, fire rockets into our country and we will fire shells back etc"

Interesting commentary. And not too far off from the opinions of the Iraqi I was speaking to the other night.
He said "Iraqi people are crazy. They don't care who or what you are... there could be 30 guys challenging 1 Iraqi, ...and the Iraqi will say 'Bring it on!' " "Iraqi people are crazy like that, and everyone over there knows it. Now Jordan, Syria, and all these other countries are overrun with crazy Iraqi refugees." "They're not happy about it either"

The above italicized quotes in red, are his words not mine.

Wether you hate Bush or not he was a definite check and a balance to those countries and organisations.
They came to realise that here is some one just as crazy as them WHO IS NOT SCARED TO DO WHAT THEY DO.
I think a saner man would have done a worse job, some times you need a crazy man in power.

A saner man would not have invaded with half-baked and delusional plans to begin with.
Infact, ...a saner man would have HAD plans. What they laid out was not a plan, it was wishful thinking. One big neo-taint circle-jerk.

hmmm... I wonder if they got any on the carpet. Maybe we could do a DNA test and then have them impeached? 

[24KT]

I think we're about to see winter in July. I always thought the day George W. Bush got my vote,
...it would be a very cold day in hell. Well here it is... and Georgie boy has finally managed to get my vote

[MikeThaMachine]

Funny how all you fuck twits jump on Bush like he's an asian prostitute offering free BJ's and forget that there have been presidents who have screwed over our country here at home and there is no debate about it. May I present Warren G. Harding for you little turds, you should all do some history rather then focus on todays popular opinion.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_G._Harding

[24KT]

Funny how all you fuck twits jump on Bush like he's an asian prostitute offering free BJ's and forget that there have been presidents who have screwed over our country here at home and there is no debate about it. May I present Warren G. Harding for you little turds, you should all do some history rather then focus on todays popular opinion.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_G._Harding

Harding may have been a philanderer, and his administration corrupt, ...but he didn't plunge the country into war over lies. His impact didn't have far reaching global effects, and he didn't unleash a genie that's so damned impossible to put back into the bottle. For all his faults, corruptions, manipulations etc., he doesn't even compare to this current guy.

ps - Have you ever considered the possibility that perhaps it's not that people hate him so they point out his flaws, but rather because of his flaws, people hate him.

[trab]

One little thingE about All THis - How we Done the RIGHT THING in Afghanistan.
Give 9ballSlim a listen. He says that Talliban basiclay OWNS everything outside the wire at his
base. If you cant controll ground, DONT TAKE IT! ITs as simple as that.
Destroy from a distance and mop up and get out. rinse and repeat.
Carter is responsible for laying the groundwork that led up to a idiot (Bush) making repeated
disastrous decisions. The people and congress/senate are guilty of siting by like sheep, and
rallying behind him, but it human nature.

[MikeThaMachine]

Harding may have been a philanderer, and his administration corrupt, ...but he didn't plunge the country into war over lies. His impact didn't have far reaching global effects, and he didn't unleash a genie that's so damned impossible to put back into the bottle. For all his faults, corruptions, manipulations etc., he doesn't even compare to this current guy.

ps - Have you ever considered the possibility that perhaps it's not that people hate him so they point out his flaws, but rather because of his flaws, people hate him.

Again with all the wah wah wah war crap. We are kicking ass over there, for every American lost the Iraqi's lose many times more people fighting for their own freedom. We also have taken down allot of the "terrorist" causing all these problems, it's obvious the enemy there is also the enemy of the Iraqi people not just us. Imagine this being Afghanistan before Al-qaeda took over, should we just let Islamic extremist just take control of a country, especially one formerly run by a harsh dictator. 

[ieffinhatecardio]

You mean 15 minutes till your bedtime.  You leave me so little to work with since, apparently, you have absolutely zero to contribute to this conversation and have yet to make a point about anything.  You're irrelevant.. figures.

It's reduculus isn't it?

[OzmO]

Face it.  No matter what Bush did, you would hate.  You believe everything you see on TV.  You think that by being critical, you're being objective.  The truth is you have been misled to believe something that isn't true.  You hang on, not because you know better, but because you feel your dissent means you question the man in office and you somehow understand things you have never dealt with.  You're fake.  And I see right through you.

I'm not surprised you missed the point.

400 billion in debt, 20,000 wounded, 3500+ dead and NO END in sight

was all unneeded.

Yeah, and THAT is a proven fact.  The media represents the left and takes advantage of that position.  Both liberal and conservative media in this country are out for money, but that hasn't stopped CNN, the NY Times, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe, USA Today, ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR  (get the point, numnuts?)

Try again skippy.   Maybe you'll release from your neo-con nipple long enough to see that the news reported that i'm talking about are the facts not the opinions.  Facts you refused to acknowledge while your face is buried in an ice cream cone.

Ok.. I know.  I have the balls to speak my mind.  So kill me.  I'm Jewish so that hardly makes me a nazi for having an opinion.  I'm sure the moment you drop the "I'm objective, really!" facade .. the same could be said about yourself.

there are plenty of Jews who believed in the nazi ideals outside of the anti-jewish parts.

The truth is you have been misled to believe something that isn't true.

What part of this isn't true?  400 billion in debt, 20,000 wounded, 3500+ dead and NO END in sight

What part of Saddam not being a religious fanatic isn;t true?

What part of Saddam being a common thug with associated mentality isn't true?

What part of Saddam wanting to survive with his power in place isn't true?

You see, you are so brainwashed you think he was a real threat when the real threat was corralled in Tora Bora.  You actually think invading Iraq was about the war on terrorism when in fact is was takkng advantage of an opportunity with the gullible American public which you are poster boy for to establish a larger military presence and control the resources.

You call going in with too few troops and not prepare for the tearing down of the infrastructure and wide open borders a mistake?

If you call that just a mistake i'd hate to see what you call incompetence....

Win the war, period.  Do what it takes.  Another concept your side doesn't understand.  Maybe it's the whole "winning" aspect you're not used to.

More us against them mentality even with-in your own country.  (Blunt instrument)

Doing what it takes is a concept i'm very familiar with as I'm self employed for over 23 years.  Not to mention my hobby/interest almost all my life has been modern military and WW2 history.   And all you have here is the same BS mentality we had in Nam.  4 years is enough  to know what we are ding is working, but you think we should keep towing  the same line?   

Roll EyesCompared to other wars?? Please.

So now it's ok?  That makes everything lost ok?   OMG.  Nazi.

[OzmO]

genius typically isn't understood for decades. einstien, edison, bell etc.

bush is no different.

Umm, hate to burst your bubble, Mr. Gimmick......all those people you mentioned were noted for their genius while they were alive and at the peak or their careers.

[OzmO]

i think not, the genius of einstein and edison is just being understood today.

They were understood then.  It was Einstien who sent a letter to President Rossevelt urging him to direct funds into what became the Manhattan project.  They gave it a unlimited budget largely from Einstein's urging.   Only a well respected "genius" could cause that.

Research einstien in your spare time between neo-con rallies and you'll the former patton clerk's Genius was well recognized long before that letter. 

Edison, before and after the lightbulb was recognized for his genius as an inventor.


Keep trying skippy, you'll make a valid point sooner or later....even a blind squirrel gets a nut sometimes.

[24KT]

Keep trying skippy, you'll make a valid point sooner or later....even a blind squirrel gets a nut sometimes.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Dude, I am soooooo stealing that line!

[Soul Crusher]

Obama without even a close second.