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Author Topic: Vince Gironda - Wow just wow  (Read 47196 times)
LatsMcGee
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« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2009, 02:17:45 AM »

I know what you mean.

Is that the Ron Kosloff site?
I forgot all about that.
I stumbled across it a while back (before I took a serious interest in the 1960’s Venice Beach era).

So you’ve used the above 3 powders, and they’re pretty good, huh?

I still have a good bit in my current supply, but I’m always looking for something that might be better.
I may give one or two of these a go when it’s time to order again.

Thanks.


No problem.  When I am in serious mode I usually do one of the protein powders with the Universal Liver tabs. 
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Montague
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« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2009, 05:28:02 AM »

On your advice, I purchased some Uni-Liver.
GREAT!
They’re monsters, but now I don’t have to wait around guzzling 3X as many pills – when you only have less than a 1½ minute window of opportunity, every second counts!

I’m on a tub of ON’s Pro-Complex right now (I’ve always sworn by Costello products). Tried mixing it with about 10 oz. of whole milk & 10 oz. of heavy cream, sipping it a little at a time spaced out over several hours – MAJOR gastric upset.

Milk by itself / cream by itself / milk & cream together / the powder by itself – don’t bother me at all, but when I mix the 3 together…poof! I spend the next few hours taking multiple magical rides on the porcelain pony.
I even tried a good digestive enzyme with protease, lactase, and amylase – my colon just laughed at me.

I may try just mixing the powder with straight cream once and see what happens. I know Vince recommended consuming fat along with protein for absorption purposes.

Do you incorporate a lot of Vince's principles?
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LatsMcGee
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« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2009, 02:34:20 AM »

On your advice, I purchased some Uni-Liver.
GREAT!
They’re monsters, but now I don’t have to wait around guzzling 3X as many pills – when you only have less than a 1½ minute window of opportunity, every second counts!

I’m on a tub of ON’s Pro-Complex right now (I’ve always sworn by Costello products). Tried mixing it with about 10 oz. of whole milk & 10 oz. of heavy cream, sipping it a little at a time spaced out over several hours – MAJOR gastric upset.

Milk by itself / cream by itself / milk & cream together / the powder by itself – don’t bother me at all, but when I mix the 3 together…poof! I spend the next few hours taking multiple magical rides on the porcelain pony.
I even tried a good digestive enzyme with protease, lactase, and amylase – my colon just laughed at me.

I may try just mixing the powder with straight cream once and see what happens. I know Vince recommended consuming fat along with protein for absorption purposes.

Do you incorporate a lot of Vince's principles?


I try to do the best I can with Vince's principles.  Usually I stick to the cream with the shakes.  I will actually add almond or peanut butter to the mix now and again too.  Milk and cream is too much for me as well.

Vince's methods have proven to be very benefecial to me and my friends over the years.  Before I learned Vince's methods my first few years of training I was burning out left and right. 
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pumpster
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« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2009, 10:46:36 AM »

Some of Vince's best links (as well as the better alternatives including those of Arthur Jones, Draper, Pearl and Scott) are a permanent sticky. Ron Kosloff's a nice guy and the last word currently on Vince's training. Contact him for any info on Vince's training and nutritional info.

Vince and Arthur Jones apparently met some time in the late 60s/early 70s - would love to have been a fly on the wall for that one.. Cheesy

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=112943.0
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Montague
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« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2009, 07:47:35 AM »

After going through some of the links Pumpster posted, I would say this seems to be my favorite:

http://ironguru.com/

It contains a lot of training & nutrition info, pictures, stories, and articles Vince had written for various magazines.

In fact, this site is so informative that I haven’t even had to pester the great LatsMcGee in almost a month!
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njflex
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« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2009, 08:35:11 AM »

was vince pro or anti steroid.
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Montague
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« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2009, 09:21:29 AM »

He didn’t like the artificially enhanced look they created, and I think he saw their use as an easy way out.

From much of what’s been written about it, the advent of “mainstream” steroid use necessitated less strictness insofar as training & nutrition.
Not so ironic then, some have mentioned that - around that same time - the seemingly "magical" protocols of guys like Blair & Vince lost a great deal of their demand with the BB public.

Vince’s business also supposedly took a sharp blow when Jones’ machines became popular and commonplace. That fame placed Jones on the kind of pedestal on which many held Gironda, and Jones’ practices – which drastically differed from Vince’s – sort of pushed Vince to the backseat.
Apparently, Vince’s equipment & ideas had become stale – not useless, but stale.
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« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2009, 10:03:35 AM »

He didn’t like the artificially enhanced look they created, and I think he saw their use as an easy way out.

From much of what’s been written about it, the advent of “mainstream” steroid use necessitated less strictness insofar as training & nutrition.
Not so ironic then, some have mentioned that - around that same time - the seemingly "magical" protocols of guys like Blair & Vince lost a great deal of their demand with the BB public.

Vince’s business also supposedly took a sharp blow when Jones’ machines became popular and commonplace. That fame placed Jones on the kind of pedestal on which many held Gironda, and Jones’ practices – which drastically differed from Vince’s – sort of pushed Vince to the backseat.
Apparently, Vince’s equipment & ideas had become stale – not useless, but stale.

thanx,he seemed really smart and eccentric at the same time,and he was ripped as a bber.brought a new look to the bbing game,like u said drugs enhanced the realm of changing the body while cutting training and eating protocals with bigger results lesser effort,totally against his preachings.
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pumpster
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« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2009, 11:56:46 AM »



Vince’s business also supposedly took a sharp blow when Jones’ machines became popular and commonplace. That fame placed Jones on the kind of pedestal on which many held Gironda, and Jones’ practices – which drastically differed from Vince’s – sort of pushed Vince to the backseat.
Apparently, Vince’s equipment & ideas had become stale – not useless, but stale.



Interesting but is this fact or conjecture? I would say Vince's business suffered far more from an overall waves of growth of the commericalized mass fitness/gym/personal trainer culture and accompanying advertizing and word of mouth begining in the 70s, not from Jones in particular.

In terms of the equipment, i'd still take Gironda's equipment that will always be usable (preacher bench in almost every gym now for example), which Larry Scott say he wishes he could've bought later when it was auctioned off for something like 10K.

Gironda's theories and equipment never got old and stale, but he never marketed/promoted himself much and there were all sorts of newer places around that did and that were sleek and modern.

Here's Scott from June of this summer at age 70, working out on his own equipment that was inspired from Vince's Gym.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1597100
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LatsMcGee
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« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2009, 12:53:47 AM »


Interesting but is this fact or conjecture? I would say Vince's business suffered far more from an overall waves of growth of the commericalized mass fitness/gym/personal trainer culture and accompanying advertizing and word of mouth begining in the 70s, not from Jones in particular.

In terms of the equipment, i'd still take Gironda's equipment that will always be usable (preacher bench in almost every gym now for example), which Larry Scott say he wishes he could've bought later when it was auctioned off for something like 10K.

Gironda's theories and equipment never got old and stale, but he never marketed/promoted himself much and there were all sorts of newer places around that did and that were sleek and modern.

Here's Scott from June of this summer at age 70, working out on his own equipment that was inspired from Vince's Gym.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1597100

Yeah Vince was never much of a salesman to begin with,  he always preferred to let results do the talking for him.  Vince thought that if you couldn't tell his methods were working   than you were an idiot. 

Don't forget the tricep bench too, that's an awesome piece of equipment.  Roman Chair squats is a great one too.
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WillGrant
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« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2009, 11:13:18 PM »

was vince pro or anti steroid.
Like most from that era Vince was a hypocrite..

Bashed gear saying it would kill you etc (how naive) then would turn around claiming all the guys at his gym were natural like scott , franco,arnold the list goes on..
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Montague
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« Reply #61 on: September 20, 2009, 05:55:33 AM »

Like most from that era Vince was a hypocrite..

Bashed gear saying it would kill you etc (how naive) then would turn around claiming all the guys at his gym were natural like scott , franco,arnold the list goes on..

"Plausible Deniability."
 Wink

I don’t know about the others, but it’s been said that Scott had built “most” of his physique & had won quite a few trophies before touching the dianabol.
Only Scott knows for sure what he took & when.

I wouldn't be surprised either way.

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LatsMcGee
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« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2009, 02:47:20 AM »

Like most from that era Vince was a hypocrite..

Bashed gear saying it would kill you etc (how naive) then would turn around claiming all the guys at his gym were natural like scott , franco,arnold the list goes on..

Whoa hold the phone Will, Vince never claimed any of those guys were natties,  he just said he didn't allow it "in his gym and on his time."  Vince wasn't a naive man, he has some literature out there about what he thought the guys in him gym were taking when they were out of the gym.  In other words he just wouldn't sell or pimp steroid advice to guys. 
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WillGrant
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« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2009, 02:58:06 AM »

Whoa hold the phone Will, Vince never claimed any of those guys were natties,  he just said he didn't allow it "in his gym and on his time."  Vince wasn't a naive man, he has some literature out there about what he thought the guys in him gym were taking when they were out of the gym.  In other words he just wouldn't sell or pimp steroid advice to guys. 
He did claim his students were natural and in the same breath claimed arnold,franco,scott,makkaway,steve davis etc were his students. , In the wild physique the book is loaded with steroid induced bodys yet Vince rubbishs gear and claims it gives you liver cancer etc..Vince knew those guys were loaded , if he was a man of his word none of those guys would of stepped foot in his gym..

The great dinabol conversation that talk place between howarth,ross and the champs of the day took place in vinces gym..
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Montague
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« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2009, 07:49:28 PM »

To add to LatsMcGee's already impressive collection of Gironda-related articles, here are some more - most of them taken from www.ironguru.com:


Eggs, Your Diet And Your Health:

Mid-morning fatigue may result from an insufficient breakfast of animal protein. It's desirable that at least one third of the daily protein intake be derived from animal sources such as eggs. Some high quality protein, as from eggs and other animal products, should be included in every diet. The tissues must have all of the essential amino acids for cell synthesis. Eggs provide these!
(IronMan Magazine July 1976 Vol. 35 No. 5)



Maintaining Positive Nitrogen Balance:

Eggs (raw) blended in lite cream beaten with a fork not a mechanical blender will give you an anabolic effect and will put you in positive nitrogen balance. But please be aware of the fact that abdominal work must be held down to a minimum as it produces a type of central nervous system shock and negates tissue growth. Do not work your abdominals more than two times per week. You can get good abs in 6 weeks if you work them right! I did.
(Musclemag Magazine March 1979 Vol. 4 Issue 1)
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Montague
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« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2009, 07:53:49 PM »

Vince Gironda Eggs Diet:

2-3 dozen eggs a day is a lot, especially if your current diet is moderate in protein and fat. Take it easy at first, and remember you will not be taking in any carbohydrates (assuming you are doing the fat loss diet) except once every 3-4 days in the form of a carb only meal.
Cooking and eating 2-3 dozen cooked eggs a day is difficult, but I found shakes to be the most convenient way of getting my fill.
One shake consists of:
Cream (half and half)
12 eggs (raw)
Water and Ice
Pure protein powder (quality whey/or milk and egg) - the powder is mainly for flavor.
Drink this throughout your morning as breakfast.
Adjust the volume to your preference (ie. taste and consistency).
And adjust the egg content to what you can handle (ex. 6 eggs x 3 x day = 1.5 doz. = half way to 3 doz.)
Repeat at noon and evening. Or make several shakes in the morning and bring them with you to work (so long as you have a fridge for storage).
If you want to eat, eat some eggs or meat. But you'll probably find your appetite calms down, and your cravings will subside.
Nick told me my diet was...
eggs: unlimited
meat: unlimited
..."thats it, any questions?"
remember to take digestive enzymes, an EFA blend, and a quality multi-vit (good b complex)
Vince liked liver tabs, and glandulars as well.
If you are not trying to lose bodyfat then just keep your carb intake moderate. By moderate I mean have some toast with your eggs, or enjoy a small veggie side dish with your steak. What I don't mean is inhaling worthless cereals, or other processed starchy foods with every meal. The kind of carbs you ingest doesn't matter...it all becomes a form a glucose (sugar) and will cause an insulin response (usually leading to bodyfat deposits). The exception would be fiberous food products, as your body cannot digest them.


Mothers Milk For Health:

Mother's milk has the highest biological value of all the proteins (95 per cent). Next comes eggs at 94 per cent; cows milk follows with 90 per cent. milk and egg protein will build muscle faster than any other known food.
(IronMan Magazine Nov 1973 Vol. 33 No. 1)
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Montague
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« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2009, 05:42:40 AM »

How To Use And Prepare Protein For Muscle Size:

Never use a blender to mix protein. Blenders emulsify the fat in milk to a suspension too small for digestion. (Homogenized Milk.) Never use milk for a protein mix. Milk has too much carbohydrate. Protein and carbohydrate digest in different mediums. Protein (acid medium), Carbohydrates (alkaline medium). You may mix powdered protein and eggs in heavy whipping cream. Whipping cream is zero carbohydrate. Mix with a spoon to a consistency of pudding and eat with a spoon. Cow's milk or cream has five times the lysine found in human milk. Calves double body weight every 30 days. Human babies double bodyweight every six months. Before bodybuilders discovered supplements, milk was the principal growth food. Cow's milk, or cream, also contain the anterior pituitary hormone which is secreted by the cow when lactating to accelerate growth of the calf. Bodybuilders consuming cow's milk (or cream) can also benefit from this growth hormone. This food mixture should be eaten with two or three H.C.L. (hydrochloric acid) tablets for metabolic, digestive support. All units of protein are measured with eggs as No. 1 protein, milk is 2nd, and meat is 3rd. Enough for the No. 1 growth protein mix.
The next protein to discuss is: Steak and Eggs - the strong man's favorite meal. The amount of meat and the number of eggs used are a matter of body weight, height and severity of training. This meal is the favorite of bodybuilders interested in keeping up their size and burning all possible fat from their bodies. Both of these meals are excellent blood sugar elevators and both sustain blood sugar levels for a 6-hour period. Training on steak and eggs, you will find, does not require more than two meals a day (morning and night). I am not listing grams of protein in these meals because I do not think it is necessary. Force feeding of excessive amounts of protein can and will put you in Negative Nitrogen Balance - and can cause uric acid retention and kidney, bladder and liver problems. If you are not working out hard enough you will find you lose your taste for protein and you will naturally and normally cut back on quantity. When this happens a protein rest should be taken by eating steamed vegetables, raw vegetables and salads for 3-5 days, until you regain your taste for protein foods. You must remember that your individual needs are different from the next man's, so listen to your body rhythms and do not force food into a body that does not require it. Forget man's so-called logic and find your own metabolic needs.
A word to those who do not understand cholesterol: Exercise is the very best fat emulsifier known, because man still reacts to stress (which is the primary cause of cholesterol overproduction) as he did when in a primitive state. Cholesterol calls for action (Fight or Flight). Cholesterol prepares you in case of injury (stops bleeding if you are cut, or protects a rupture of veins). Also, a little known fact is that the body manufactures more cholesterol that you can possibly eat. The body reduces cholesterol output - or produces more - depending on how much of it you ingest. Fats and oils are fat emulsifiers themselves (lepotropics). So, who started the misconception that fats and oils cause unnatural cholesterol levels? As a matter of fact, if you study this problem you will find it is a substance known as tri-glyceride that is the culprit. Remember, nature is balance. Read Steffanson's book, "Not By Bread Alone." He lived with the Eskimos for 18 years on meat and fat only!
(IronMan Magazine March 1976 Vol. 35 No. 3)

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« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2009, 04:53:25 AM »

Do you guys avoid back squats and deadlifts like Vince recommended?
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Montague
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« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2009, 06:48:50 AM »

Squats I do with feet parallel and just inside shoulder width. Most guys I’ve seen who squat regularly & have the “over-developed” waists & glutes Vince warned against are mostly power lifters who squat sumo-style.

With deads, I almost never pull from the floor.
I much prefer partials done inside the rack.
They allow you to properly tax all of those lower to upper back fibers without blasting & getting help from your legs & glutes.

Charles Glass has most of his clients follow this principle for the same reasons.
I also prefer them because they’re more forgiving on my sacrum/lumbar region, which has given me problems on & off for about 6 years now.
My back muscles are my best developed, which I attribute to genetics, but also exercise selection.
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« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2009, 07:31:16 AM »

Squats I do with feet parallel and just inside shoulder width. Most guys I’ve seen who squat regularly & have the “over-developed” waists & glutes Vince warned against are mostly power lifters who squat sumo-style.

With deads, I almost never pull from the floor.
I much prefer partials done inside the rack.
They allow you to properly tax all of those lower to upper back fibers without blasting & getting help from your legs & glutes.

Charles Glass has most of his clients follow this principle for the same reasons.
I also prefer them because they’re more forgiving on my sacrum/lumbar region, which has given me problems on & off for about 6 years now.
My back muscles are my best developed, which I attribute to genetics, but also exercise selection.


Thanks.  My stance for squats is also quite narrow, but my reps are at 5 for all sets, trying to get strength up.  My glutes are already as big as I want though, so I'm thinking I might switch to front squats with heels raised so that I can stay more upright.

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Montague
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« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2009, 07:52:13 AM »

Try it then.
You'll probably be okay (or at least, better) with that form.
Also, you may consider stopping at parallel.

Ass to ankles is a lot harder, etc., but you also know that squats from that depth recruit a lot of glute fibers.
You can still build good leg size & strength by stopping at parallel.

Similar principle to partial deads for back; minus the leg/glute involvement.
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Montague
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« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2009, 10:05:51 AM »

Hey Lats (or anyone else):

Have you or your boys ever used plant glandulars/sterols?
I’ve read where Vince had his guys taking those as well, but it seems like the liver tabs & powders always got the most glory.

Ron sells them on his site; as well Universal makes a version:

http://www.ironguru.com/sterol-11+-glandulars

http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_uv002.htm

Just wondering…
Thanks.
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LatsMcGee
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« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2009, 02:27:40 AM »

Hey Lats (or anyone else):

Have you or your boys ever used plant glandulars/sterols?
I’ve read where Vince had his guys taking those as well, but it seems like the liver tabs & powders always got the most glory.

Ron sells them on his site; as well Universal makes a version:

http://www.ironguru.com/sterol-11+-glandulars

http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_uv002.htm

Just wondering…
Thanks.


I don't know about any real anabolic benefits to them other than when I take them my appetite seems to go through the roof.  I will take them sometimes when I am trying to make gains for that reason.  It's been a few years since I messed with them. 
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Montague
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« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2009, 03:59:08 AM »

Cool.
Thanks.
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LatsMcGee
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« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2009, 04:06:04 AM »

Cool.
Thanks.

No problem,  just out of curiousity what kind of training are you doing at the moment?
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