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Original Sin
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« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2007, 07:47:37 AM »

Roll Eyes

Nice discussion, maybe soon mommy will teach you how to read and you can try to stop looking like an idiot.
I suggest you start reading about diets as your first book.

do you really think that living in n. american comfort has exposed manson to anything dark? sex, drugs, and rock and roll are at bottom adolescent diversions . . . you know that.

How can you say that when you know nothing about the man, his life or his experiences?  What information are you basing your argument on?
So you are saying nobody in North America has sen anything dark because we have cable TV and Shopping Centres?

Torture, Murder, Suicide, Mutilation occur all over the world, those of living in North America are not immune to this and some unfortunately have to live through it. 
I believe darkness is about the choices we make when confronted by these outside factors as described by Joseph Conrad in his story.
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Just Bad Bad Blood!
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« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2007, 01:38:35 PM »



How can you say that when you know nothing about the man, his life or his experiences?  What information are you basing your argument on?
So you are saying nobody in North America has sen anything dark because we have cable TV and Shopping Centres?

Torture, Murder, Suicide, Mutilation occur all over the world, those of living in North America are not immune to this and some unfortunately have to live through it. 
I believe darkness is about the choices we make when confronted by these outside factors as described by Joseph Conrad in his story.


You're right, I know very little about MM . . .  I agree that some people are exposed to darkness in N. A., but MM does not strike me as one of them . . . the people who do see darkness and survive it don't prance around in make-up on  shows watched primarily by adolescents.  MM strikes me as being a suburban misfit who never quite grew up.  He is, however, better at marketing himself than the average suburban misfit.

I have no idea how Joseph Conrad is related to all this.  If you're referencing Heart of Darkness, then you're making my point.  Conrad is writing about men who are physically and culturally displaced . . . and they're not on a trip to the hood either.  They can't get back on the freeway and head back home to Malibu, or wherever he lives. 
 
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The Squadfather
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« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2007, 03:17:37 PM »

hahahahaha, i love how all my posts have been deleted, must be too honest for you women around here. Grin
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Original Sin
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« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2007, 05:57:09 PM »

You're right, I know very little about MM . . .  I agree that some people are exposed to darkness in N. A., but MM does not strike me as one of them . . . the people who do see darkness and survive it don't prance around in make-up on  shows watched primarily by adolescents.  MM strikes me as being a suburban misfit who never quite grew up.  He is, however, better at marketing himself than the average suburban misfit.

I have no idea how Joseph Conrad is related to all this.  If you're referencing Heart of Darkness, then you're making my point.  Conrad is writing about men who are physically and culturally displaced . . . and they're not on a trip to the hood either.  They can't get back on the freeway and head back home to Malibu, or wherever he lives. 
 

Yes I was referring to Heart of Darkness, at least now we have a common point of reference.  I think the story was less about the displacement then about the internal choices they made whether to fall into the darkness or not.  Just my interpretation.  Did you have to study this novella as well?

Now one might prance around in makeup if one cannot stand to look at the man Brian Warner that is actually behind it all.  Basic psychology.

Rape, Murder, Suicide, Torture and Mutilation are all things that have happened to MM or people very close to him.  Several he has done himself to others.  Without even knowing all the details this alone reaches into the dark parts of the human psyche. 

His paintings look like the works that Rod Serling used for that old TV show "The Night Gallery".  If this isn't what he shes / feels inside but is all an act, it shows that he must be very intelligent to pull it off.  That is why I consider him something that I want to learn more about and try and look at the world through his eyes, for a short time anyway. 
I want to know what he sees.

I guess you could consider this my trip from the Valley into the 'hood. 
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« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2007, 04:55:25 AM »


 Someone who can make a "speech" for 12 minutes and never look at the camera makes me wonder if they believe what they are saying. 

  The David Letterman interview on youtube was funny though!! 
Grin
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« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2007, 06:50:48 AM »

Yes I was referring to Heart of Darkness, at least now we have a common point of reference.  I think the story was less about the displacement then about the internal choices they made whether to fall into the darkness or not.  Just my interpretation.  Did you have to study this novella as well?

Now one might prance around in makeup if one cannot stand to look at the man Brian Warner that is actually behind it all.  Basic psychology.

Rape, Murder, Suicide, Torture and Mutilation are all things that have happened to MM or people very close to him.  Several he has done himself to others.  Without even knowing all the details this alone reaches into the dark parts of the human psyche. 

His paintings look like the works that Rod Serling used for that old TV show "The Night Gallery".  If this isn't what he shes / feels inside but is all an act, it shows that he must be very intelligent to pull it off.  That is why I consider him something that I want to learn more about and try and look at the world through his eyes, for a short time anyway. 
I want to know what he sees.

I guess you could consider this my trip from the Valley into the 'hood. 

hahahahaha, you don't honestly believe that garbage do you? Marilyn Manson is a rich spoiled suburban kid whos roughest experience was being picked on in high school for wearing makeup and a trenchcoat.
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« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2007, 04:22:05 AM »

I've never met Marilyn Manson personally, but I know people who do know him, and all of them to a fault, say the guy is a total mensch.
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« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2007, 04:47:39 AM »

What is a mensch?  I have heard the term, but do not understand what it is supposed to mean.
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Laura Lee
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« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2007, 04:51:44 AM »

What is a mensch?  I have heard the term, but do not understand what it is supposed to mean.
Mensch (Yiddish מענטש; also mentsch, mentsh, mensh, or mench, plural: mentschen, German plural: Menschen) is a German noun meaning a "human".

In Yiddish (from which the word has migrated into American English), mensch roughly means "a good person." A role model. A "mensch" is a particularly good person, like "a stand-up guy," a person with the qualities one would hope for in a dear friend or trusted colleague. According to author and Yiddish popularist Leo Rosten,

[A] mensch is a someone to admire and emulate, someone of noble character. The key to being "a real mensch" is nothing less than character, rectitude, dignity, a sense of what is right, responsible, decorous. (Rosten, Leo. 1968. The Joys of Yiddish. New York: Pocket Books. 237)
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« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2007, 05:07:25 AM »

So, this would be a false statement about him then?:

Quote
Rape, Murder, Suicide, Torture and Mutilation are all things that have happened to MM or people very close to him.  Several he has done himself to others.  Without even knowing all the details this alone reaches into the dark parts of the human psyche.
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Laura Lee
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« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2007, 05:27:44 AM »

So, this would be a false statement about him then?:

I wonder which he has done?  Rape, Murder, (obviously can't be Suicide), Torture or Mutilation.

So yes, if he has indeed done one of the above to another...that would definitely make him not a mensch, but more a criminal and low-life.
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« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2007, 07:51:13 AM »

So, this would be a false statement about him then?:


Not a false statement at all.  Those were his own words.

I've never met Marilyn Manson personally, but I know people who do know him, and all of them to a fault, say the guy is a total mensch.

Calling MM someone to emulate would be like saying Trent Rezznor or the Toxic twins are somebody to emulate.  Be sure to raise your children the same way.  Roll Eyes
Either you chose the wrong word Judi or the people you talked to were trying to blow smoke up somebodies ass.  I heard Elvis had people telling him how great and decent he was so they could try to use him.  Maybe this is the same.

As I stated earlier though he is very articulate and extremely intelligent.  So many people "know" Manson but they all see a different person.
To create a mask so concealing and maintain it for so many years isn't something a stupid person can do.

p.s Cheat on you spouse, that is something else we should all emulate, I guess
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« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2007, 09:05:57 AM »

Not a false statement at all.  Those were his own words.

I think she meant "I" made a false statement not you.

Quote
Calling MM someone to emulate would be like saying Trent Rezznor or the Toxic twins are somebody to emulate.  Be sure to raise your children the same way.  Roll Eyes
Either you chose the wrong word Judi or the people you talked to were trying to blow smoke up somebodies ass.

Ummm...  not sure who Trent Rezznor is, ...or the toxic twins... so I can't comment either way, but one thing they all said was they were blown away when they found out who he was. As MM, he's always in makeup, ...kinda like KISS was in the 70's, and they knew him as the man, ...not the celebrity. So it floored them when they discovered this guy was the MM that so many rail about. They say his MM persona is a schtick that he's honed down to a T, but in real life, he's a mensch. Laura's definition may be accurate of the terms original meaning. I know when they used it, they didn't mean it as "someone to emulate" or "raise your kids to be just like him", ...but rather a decent standup guy with morals, values, and a social conscience. Don't ask me I'm only telling you what they said.
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« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2007, 10:38:51 AM »

Yes I was referring to Heart of Darkness, at least now we have a common point of reference.  I think the story was less about the displacement then about the internal choices they made whether to fall into the darkness or not.  Just my interpretation.  Did you have to study this novella as well?

Now one might prance around in makeup if one cannot stand to look at the man Brian Warner that is actually behind it all.  Basic psychology.

Rape, Murder, Suicide, Torture and Mutilation are all things that have happened to MM or people very close to him.  Several he has done himself to others.  Without even knowing all the details this alone reaches into the dark parts of the human psyche. 

His paintings look like the works that Rod Serling used for that old TV show "The Night Gallery".  If this isn't what he shes / feels inside but is all an act, it shows that he must be very intelligent to pull it off.  That is why I consider him something that I want to learn more about and try and look at the world through his eyes, for a short time anyway. 
I want to know what he sees.

I guess you could consider this my trip from the Valley into the 'hood. 


HoD's main premise is that Kurtz is physically displaced from his white, civilized world.  He has gone far beyond "civilization," into the heart of the "dark continent."  You can read this as a metaphor . . . and give it some kind of psychological interpretation, but that would be ignoring that Conrad himself was actually a sailor and that he had gone on the kinds of voyages he describes.  To places that took months to reach, where there was no sat phone and gps . . . the displacement was far greater than anything you could experience today.  But you still can experience it to a degree.  You want to understand the HoD . . . go to Africa. Live there for a couple of months, and even if you are in a "city" there, you will begin to understand what Conrad was talking about.   
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Original Sin
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« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2007, 12:15:45 PM »

I think she meant "I" made a false statement not you.

Ummm...  not sure who Trent Rezznor is, ...or the toxic twins... so I can't comment either way, but one thing they all said was they were blown away when they found out who he was. As MM, he's always in makeup, ...kinda like KISS was in the 70's, and they knew him as the man, ...not the celebrity. So it floored them when they discovered this guy was the MM that so many rail about. They say his MM persona is a schtick that he's honed down to a T, but in real life, he's a mensch. Laura's definition may be accurate of the terms original meaning. I know when they used it, they didn't mean it as "someone to emulate" or "raise your kids to be just like him", ...but rather a decent standup guy with morals, values, and a social conscience. Don't ask me I'm only telling you what they said.

The Toxic Twins is a nickname given to lead singer Steven Tyler and lead guitarist Joe Perry of American hard rock band Aerosmith.  Trent Rezznor is the Brain (lead Singer of Nine Inch Nails)  Their exploits into drugs are legendary.

I still diagree with the Mensch though, Anton LeVay (Head of the Church of Satan) knew MM on a personal level and his entire teachings go against what a mensch should be.  Live life to its extremes for your own pleasures, in a nutshell.

but the dichotomy of the man is what intrigues me.

. . . go to Africa. Live there for a couple of months, and even if you are in a "city" there, you will begin to understand what Conrad was talking about.  

I think I will keep my little white ass in North America.  Single blonde women travelling alone in Africa isn't the smartest thing to do and not really what I am looking for anyway.  I don't wish to see the "darkness" inside me, I want to see his.  I hope that made sense

Boy did this thread ever travel a long way from Duran Duran wearing eyeliner lol
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« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2007, 12:27:51 PM »

hahahaha, don't make me laugh, marilyn manson couldn't rape or beat someone unless they were comatose, the "man" is 6'3" and 127 pounds soaking wet, plus he was raised in the suburbs.
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« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2007, 12:54:46 PM »

The Toxic Twins is a nickname given to lead singer Steven Tyler and lead guitarist Joe Perry of American hard rock band Aerosmith.  Trent Rezznor is the Brain (lead Singer of Nine Inch Nails)  Their exploits into drugs are legendary.

I still diagree with the Mensch though, Anton LeVay (Head of the Church of Satan) knew MM on a personal level and his entire teachings go against what a mensch should be.  Live life to its extremes for your own pleasures, in a nutshell.

but the dichotomy of the man is what intrigues me.

I think I will keep my little white ass in North America.  Single blonde women travelling alone in Africa isn't the smartest thing to do and not really what I am looking for anyway.  I don't wish to see the "darkness" inside me, I want to see his.  I hope that made sense

Boy did this thread ever travel a long way from Duran Duran wearing eyeliner lol

every guy wants to be a badass in high school. those who can't do it conventionally compensate by putting on makeup and claiming to be associated w the devil (he's supposed to be the ultimate badass after all). I guess being interested in that schtick is valid . . .

About traveling in Africa not being the "smartest thing to do," I thought you weren't interested in 9 to 5 jobs and other appurtenances of suburbia, so why not live on the edge a little?
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The Squadfather
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« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2007, 12:58:13 PM »

every guy wants to be a badass in high school. those who can't do it conventionally compensate by putting on makeup and claiming to be associated w the devil (he's supposed to be the ultimate badass after all). I guess being interested in that schtick is valid . . .

About traveling in Africa not being the "smartest thing to do," I thought you weren't interested in 9 to 5 jobs and other appurtenances of suburbia, so why not live on the edge a little?
exactly, Marilyn Manson is a cliche, typical kid who got picked on by the football players in high school and got into heavy metal and bought some clothes at Goth's 'R Us to shock and scare them off but it never does, those kids just get brutalized more.
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Butterbean
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« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2007, 01:26:04 PM »

Joe Perry

one of the best-looking men on the planet



* joe.jpg (110 KB, 333x500 - viewed 142 times.)
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R
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« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2007, 01:31:34 PM »

one of the best-looking men on the planet



Wow do you ever live in a dark house?
Turn the lights on, he looks much different.

 Kiss Grin

 
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Just Bad Bad Blood!
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« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2007, 01:52:12 PM »

one of the best-looking men on the planet



have any dreams about him?
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« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2007, 02:54:10 PM »

Not a false statement at all.  Those were his own words.

So what was done to him, and what did he do to others?

Quote
Rape, Murder, Suicide, Torture and Mutilation are all things that have happened to MM or people very close to him.  Several he has done himself to others.  Without even knowing all the details this alone reaches into the dark parts of the human psyche.


Scratching suicide and murder off the list as happening to himself that means  at least one of the following happened to him: he was raped, murdered, tortured or mutilated.

And again scratching suicide off since he couldn't do that to someone else, he did at least one of the following to at least one person: he raped, murdered, tortured, or mutilated at least one person.

   That doesn's sound dark to me, that just sounds like he is an asshole who needs help both for what was done to him, and what he did to others.

  I don't see any glorified "darkside".

 I listened to all 12mins+ of his "speech".  While I admit he was a better speaker than I thought he would be, I did not hear anything profound in his speech, and I was unimpressed by his lack of looking at who he is speaking to (in this case the camera and everyone who would see his speech).  I never thought he was somebody with any depth to him, just an image of what he wants people to think, and his speech, to me at least, proved that except for being better spoken than I thought he would be. 



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Al-Gebra
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« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2007, 03:08:24 PM »


stella, does your silence mean you're pleading the fifth?  Grin

















people plead the fifth to avoid saying something "incriminating" . . .  Tongue
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Butterbean
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« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2007, 03:28:25 PM »

stella, does your silence mean you're pleading the fifth?  Grin



people plead the fifth to avoid saying something "incriminating" . . .  Tongue

Sorry Al-G I was just reading through this thread because I hadn't done it thoroughly. 

Have I dreamed about Joe Perry?  Probably but I can't remember!


Also, that video link does not work for me.

A couple more of Joe... Grin








* joep.jpg (5.64 KB, 140x215 - viewed 64 times.)

* joepe.jpg (8 KB, 180x180 - viewed 83 times.)
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R
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« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2007, 07:27:23 PM »

Sorry Al-G I was just reading through this thread because I hadn't done it thoroughly. 

Have I dreamed about Joe Perry?  Probably but I can't remember!


Also, that video link does not work for me.

A couple more of Joe... Grin








i thought you didn't like skinny? 
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