Support Michael Vick's rights

[rockyfortune]

fuck him....someone should hand his rights right up his ass.

i love this shit..you see it everyday in philly..250 people murdered this year so far---then some junkie stands on the street loaded up on pcp and formaldehyde waving a gun at people..the cops blast his ass and the same friggin people this asshole was waving a gun at yell that this prick's rights were violated...
hedge--some of your shit is right on but you are shooting blanks on this one..

[24KT]

  He can argue whether his trial was fair when he has it.  If anything he may have a case for appeal later on.   

    You still haven't shown what rights have been violated.


   Or do you want to discuss decency instead of rights? 

~flower~ I think Hedgehog may be referring to his right to "the presumption of innocence until convicted in a court of law by a jury of his peers."

And you're right. With all the clamouring and hyperbole prior to a trial, it has the potential to taint what could otherwise be an impartial jury pool, ...and it could potentially be grounds for an appeal upon any conviction. How pissed would the angry mob be then?

What I don't understand is why it is that anytime a black man is on trial, people bring up OJ Simpson?
Why is that CJ? Could you explain it for me? You did the same thing the other day when they were arresting that cop alledged to have done harm to his pregnant mistress... you brought up OJ. One would think Laci Petersen would have come to mind... afterall, the cases had far more similarity, ...and the Petersen case was more recent.

Just an observation.

[rockyfortune]

~flower~ I think Hedgehog may be referring to his right to "the presumption of innocence until convicted in a court of law by a jury of his peers."

And you're right. With all the clamouring and hyperbole prior to a trial, it has the potential to taint what could otherwise be an impartial jury pool, ...and it could potentially be grounds for an appeal upon any conviction. How pissed would the angry mob be then?

What I don't understand is why it is that anytime a black man is on trial, people bring up OJ Simpson?
Why is that CJ? Could you explain it for me? You did the same thing the other day when they were arresting that cop alledged to have done harm to his pregnant mistress... you brought up OJ. One would think Laci Petersen would have come to mind... afterall, the cases had far more similarity, ...and the Petersen case was more recent.

Just an observation.

he gets the presumption of innocence in the COURT SYSTEM---The citizens are allowed to make it up in their own minds--and speak it if they like...it's called freedom of speech...he gets his rights and the citizenry gets theirs... no one is holding him prisoner..he's walking around free--something a guilty person doesn't have the right of...Tainted jury huh? show me juries that haven't been tainted...you are naive to believe people don't form their own opinions ten seconds into a trial...

[Option D]

I appreciate your integrity and your loyalty to benefit of the doubt.

But you know the same people who are protecting him now thought the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and her bf were perfectly okay because of what happened in the past and because of the supposed biased justice system? These people and their words are of no weight.

Yeah because the officers that beat the shit out of rodney king (ON FUCKIN TAPE) and got off was a perfect example of our fair legal system right

[rockyfortune]

Yeah because the officers that beat the shit out of rodney king (ON FUCKIN TAPE) and got off was a perfect example of our fair legal system right

so let's let all black men accused of crime go free because of the rodney king crap...makes sense..

[Option D]

so let's let all black men accused of crime go free because of the rodney king crap...makes sense..

no i didnt say that cha cha. Im not even referring to vick there. Im just commenting on CJ's refrence to the "Supposed" biased justice system, like it dont exist in american history, recent american history at that. Dont be a retard and say that there is no unjust justice system here.

[24KT]

he gets the presumption of innocence in the COURT SYSTEM---The citizens are allowed to make it up in their own minds--and speak it if they like...it's called freedom of speech...he gets his rights and the citizenry gets theirs... no one is holding him prisoner..he's walking around free--something a guilty person doesn't have the right of...

That's a great point. You're right. There is a distinction between the court system, and the court of public opinion.
Problem is the people in the court system, often come from the general public.  Kind of a catch 22.

Tainted jury huh? show me juries that haven't been tainted...you are naive to believe people don't form their own opinions ten seconds into a trial...

I'm not naive. I'm simply saying that if it can be shown that a jury was compromised prior to deliberation, ...it can have ramifications, and lead to outcomes that certainly wouldn't please those who would have preferred the outcome be different. that's all. Why so angry rocky fortune?

[rockyfortune]

no i didnt say that cha cha. Im not even referring to vick there. Im just commenting on CJ's refrence to the "Supposed" biased justice system, like it dont exist in american history, recent american history at that. Dont be a retard and say that there is no unjust justice system here.

lol..cha cha...everytime i post with you you call me that...

retard? why, because i am sensible enough to know that no system of justice is fully just and fully righteous? as i said earlier..find me one--you really cannot.  What about the duke lacrosse team? there was bias there--just it wasn't against blacks so it really wasn't racist..only when the justice system does it to a black man is there perceived racism or injustice.

[rockyfortune]

That's a great point. You're right. There is a distinction between the court system, and the court of public opinion.
Problem is the people in the court system, often come from the general public.  Kind of a catch 22.

I'm not naive. I'm simply saying that if it can be shown that a jury was compromised prior to deliberation, ...it can have ramifications, and lead to outcomes that certainly wouldn't please those who would have preferred the outcome be different. that's all. Why so angry rocky fortune?

who is angry? no one exists in a vaccuum and you think that that is the only way someone will get a fair trial...they have a choice--they can either have a jury or a bench trial and leave it up to a judge who is supposed to look at the case based on its merits---you have to trust that the judge will do that just like you have to trust a jury will do that...you can't just trash the justice system because it has been unjust in some instances---if he wasn't michael vick this probably doesn't garner as much publicity as it has---but he is michael vick--and mike vick or ron mexico made his choices and is accused of some heinous shit--if he goes down he goes down because he committed those heinous crimes and not because of the public opinion. 

[Al Doggity]

retard? why, because i am sensible enough to know that no system of justice is fully just and fully righteous? as i said earlier..find me one--you really cannot.  What about the duke lacrosse team? there was bias there--just it wasn't against blacks so it really wasn't racist..only when the justice system does it to a black man is there perceived racism or injustice.

Hence the retard title. Look how the Duke lacrosse case turned out. The prosecutor was fired and lost his legal license the case was thrown out of court and the boys received an apology from the district attorney's office.

[Hedgehog]

no i didnt say that cha cha. Im not even referring to vick there. Im just commenting on CJ's refrence to the "Supposed" biased justice system, like it dont exist in american history, recent american history at that. Dont be a retard and say that there is no unjust justice system here.

The main problem here malcolm, is that instead of fighting the problem at hand, interest organisations choose to fight it when high profile cases arrive.

Which is rather unintelligent, since then it becomes a question of whether the person is guilty or not.

But that doesn't seem to bother these black community profiles who have spoken up playing the race card in cases like OJ Simpson and Vick.

I think that there is a bias AGAINST non-whites in American courts. But it's just a very bad idea to fight it when individual cases arrive.

A think a united effort is needed instead. That has a much greater chance to get the support from the majority of the public, and not just the black, or the hispanic community.

[rockyfortune]

Hence the retard title. Look how the Duke lacrosse case turned out. The prosecutor was fired and lost his legal license the case was thrown out of court and the boys received an apology from the district attorney's office.

look at the oj simpson verdict..a guilty man was set free..so it works both ways there retard. what? when your point sucks you start calling names...typical 9 year old attitude.

it's ok really..defend slimeballs..and when said slimeball is convicted..don't blame the criminal blame whitey and his corrupt justice system.

[Al Doggity]

Fine. I apologize for calling you a retard. That wasn't nice.

I have never defended Vick or blamed anything on "Whitey." My post had nothing to do with Vick.

What I was pointing out was the stupidity of arguments like the one you just made:
"Something unfair happened to white people once and something happened in a black guy's favor one time, so that proves that everything is fair."


OJ's ass was saved because he was in the top 1% wealth bracket in this country.


And that Duke case was the worst possible example you could have used. In the Duke case all of the malfeasance and corruption was rectified and the defendants were set free. It's a better example of how the justice system does eventually work if you are white or rich or both.

 

[rockyfortune]

Fine. I apologize for calling you a retard. That wasn't nice.

I have never defended Vick or blamed anything on "Whitey." My post had nothing to do with Vick.

What I was pointing out was the stupidity of arguments like the one you just made:
"Something unfair happened to white people once and something happened in a black guy's favor one time, so that proves that everything is fair."


OJ's ass was saved because he was in the top 1% wealth bracket in this country.


And that Duke case was the worst possible example you could have used. In the Duke case all of the malfeasance and corruption was rectified and the defendants were set free. It's a better example of how the justice system does eventually work if you are white or rich or both.

 

no,no,no...this is not my argument:  What I was pointing out was the stupidity of arguments like the one you just made:
"Something unfair happened to white people once and something happened in a black guy's favor one time, so that proves that everything is fair."


sure..but the duke players were all but convicted in the media ala michael vick--although on paper it appears there is much more evidence against vick than there was against the duke dudes..

and no, it's not my argument...my argument is that like it or not not everything is fair even in the justice system and that goes for white people as well as black people---sure we can get into the break down of who is in jail and it is a majority of black people..but just because that is so doesn't make the justice system unfair or biased...just because the court of public opinion chooses to convict the guy now doesn't make a conviction in a court of law down the road unfair, or biased or tainted. 

[Al Doggity]

Okay. Now that  I've gone back and read your first post in regards to race, I can't say that I disagree with your initial point. I guess this is what I get for scanning quickly and then  posting.

 If this was a more expansive conversation on race and the justice system, I have a feeling we would have wildly divergent views, but as it stands, I don't really disagree with most of what you've posted in this thread.