Pentagon Paid $998,798 to Ship Two 19-Cent Washers (Update3)

[headhuntersix]

These are facts....

By 1993, the drawdown had reduced the Army well below the floor established by Colin Powell's Base Force Plan.  But in 1996, the Clinton administration made it clear that even these levels weren't enough.  In the mid—to—late 90s, the Army was under pressure to not only reduce the number of active duty divisions, but to also reduce the numbers of Soldiers within the combat divisions themselves. The Force XXI experiments initiated some major changes in the armor and mechanized infantry maneuver battalions that included eliminating an entire maneuver company from the battalion organization.  Instead of four companies, battalions now had only three.  They got rid of Delta Companies.....so u end up with 42 tanks instead of 54...big difference when u employ tanks to scare the shit out of the enemy. Its based on doctrine and wild bill could have cared less...save money save money....

[OzmO]

Sure stuff was cut, but was it gutted?  no.  The military and their role was changing due to the end of the cold war and frankly we couldn't afford to keep spending at the level we were in the cold war.  So things had to change.  Just as i'm sure you've seen the military change in the last 5-7 years with the new high tech quick strike and deployment approach that Rumsfield spear headed.

[headhuntersix]

Yeah except now we're growing again....ever friggen time we draw down we end up with a war. Not only that...Clinton had us all over the place during his time. 18 Div's to 10..thats gutted, especially in light of what we face now.

[Decker]

Dude we cut division after division...spending increases only mean we bought sexier equipment instead of stuff we needed. Case in point 7th ID gone..2nd AD gone 3AD gone 24th ID (Mech) gone.....The fiscal 1999 defense-budget request represented the 14th consecutive year of real decline in defense spending
During the last decade, the U.S. military has shrunk from approximately 2.2 million active-duty service members to 1.4 million active-duty soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines. In fact, since the Persian Gulf War, Army divisions have been reduced from 18 to 10, Navy ships cut from 547 to 346 and Air Force fighter wings reduced from 36 to 19.

Yet, at the same time our military forces continued to shrink, they are being called upon to do more all over the world. For instance, the Army, which conducted 10 operational events outside of normal training and alliance commitments during the 31-year period of 1960-1991, had conducted 26 operational events since 1991. The Marine Corps, which undertook 15 contingency operations between 1982 and 1989, has conducted 62 such operations since the fall of the Berlin Wall. And, for the first time, the Air Force is experiencing frequent, long-term deployments.


Looks like draw done to me...

Of course it was a draw down. 

Even Bush closed bases.   Under Bush, 33 base closings were proposed with a net loss of almost 11,000 military positions, a net loss of over 18,000 civilian positions, also 755 bases were to undergo partial closings….all during a time of war.  http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/13/base.closings/index.html


Under Clinton, the reductions in the military were a bi-partisan effort to rein in spending.  The president can’t do this stuff alone.  The republican-led congress under Clinton gave its full support for the closings otherwise it wouldn’t have happened. 


“The Defense Base Closure and Realignment Act (10 U.S.C.A. § 2687), passed by Congress in 1990" (Under Bush I), "set off a firestorm of controversy over which bases should be closed and whether the country's military readiness was being irrevocably compromised. The act created a presidential commission to decide which bases to close based on Pentagon recommendations. The commission's decisions are sent to the president, who accepts or rejects them in their entirety. If accepted, the recommendations are sent to Congress, which can only block the closings if both houses pass a resolution of disapproval within forty-five days.”  http://www.answers.com/topic/armed-force?cat=biz-fin

[Decker]

Yeah except now we're growing again....ever friggen time we draw down we end up with a war. Not only that...Clinton had us all over the place during his time. 18 Div's to 10..thats gutted, especially in light of what we face now.

I disagree with your terminology. 

So the Pentagon, which proposed the base closings in the first place as it did with the base closings under Bush II, is gutting its own military?

I would rethink that.

We face two wars now b/c of the current president's complete fuck up in attacking Iraq.  Thank him for stretching the resources to the breaking point.

[headhuntersix]

You don't understand how it works, nor would I expect u to.  Its beyond Yes Bush senior began the draw down. Colin Powell drafted a plan which took us down to an extent, saved money etc..no problem. they also closed and realigned bases..no issues either. However Clinton took us down far more..he wanted deeper cuts and he got them This is how it works in the Pentagon....u have us, the uniformed guys..we don't stay very long 3-4 years maybe, then u have the beaurocrats, who are there for life..DOD employee's.....GS folks. They run the show. There was a big turnover of folks during the early clinton years...alot of new post cold warriors came aboard. Also there is this group called the executive service corp or some such group. They are all retired COl and General officers...apparently they are a very political group..they are beholden to the Military Industrial complex to some extent as well. I only know about this crap because my Boss is bucking to be one. Well alot of these guys knew that by cutting man power, that they could buy alot of sexy hardware.....they were only concerned with their lane and were not worried about emerging threats, AQ or anything. So the bottom line is that, we, the Uniformed service have as much to do with cuts as u do....its sucks. The game is very discouraging.

[Decker]

You don't understand how it works, nor would I expect u to.  Its beyond Yes Bush senior began the draw down. Colin Powell drafted a plan which took us down to an extent, saved money etc..no problem. they also closed and realigned bases..no issues either. However Clinton took us down far more..he wanted deeper cuts and he got them This is how it works in the Pentagon....u have us, the uniformed guys..we don't stay very long 3-4 years maybe, then u have the beaurocrats, who are there for life..DOD employee's.....GS folks. They run the show. There was a big turnover of folks during the early clinton years...alot of new post cold warriors came aboard. Also there is this group called the executive service corp or some such group. They are all retired COl and General officers...apparently they are a very political group..they are beholden to the Military Industrial complex to some extent as well. I only know about this crap because my Boss is bucking to be one. Well alot of these guys knew that by cutting man power, that they could buy alot of sexy hardware.....they were only concerned with their lane and were not worried about emerging threats, AQ or anything. So the bottom line is that, we, the Uniformed service have as much to do with cuts as u do....its sucks. The game is very discouraging.

Here’s my take on how the US government pares down the size of its military.  The Secretary of Defense, US Army Base Realignment and Closure Division, The Joint Chiefs of Staff (the Pentagon), and the General Accounting Office all have input to the president on how the draw down is going to happen—effects, costs.

The president is responsible for the final list of closings/reconfigurings and this list must pass any objection from Congress.

If I have this wrong, then please tell me.

As far as Clinton taking the military ‘down far more’, President Clinton could not have ‘gutted’ the military without an okey-dokey from Congress—a republican majority congress no less.

[headhuntersix]

Part A...yeah in a perfect world but thats how it works....with the usual BS thrown in.
Once it gets to congress it becomes a mess...here's why. Say I' m Congressman Smith with FT Scmoe in my district. Well Uncle sam is closing Ft Scmoe and moving those folks to Ft Hood. I bitch because thats my job. The FT Hood Rep happens to be on a committy that MR Smith has stuff going through. They make a deal, Smith stops bitching and gets his stuff through, which happens to be more important to his reelection bid then keeping Ft Scmoe open. This sorta happened with FT Mcclellan and Ft Leonard Wood...simplified but u get it. The Repubs came to power in 94'. The ball was rolling before then. I here what your saying, but much like Bush and this mess..the buck stops with Clinton and his part, large or small.

[Decker]

Part A...yeah in a perfect world but thats how it works....with the usual BS thrown in.
Once it gets to congress it becomes a mess...here's why. Say I' m Congressman Smith with FT Scmoe in my district. Well Uncle sam is closing Ft Scmoe and moving those folks to Ft Hood. I bitch because thats my job. The FT Hood Rep happens to be on a committy that MR Smith has stuff going through. They make a deal, Smith stops bitching and gets his stuff through, which happens to be more important to his reelection bid then keeping Ft Scmoe open. This sorta happened with FT Mcclellan and Ft Leonard Wood...simplified but u get it. The Repubs came to power in 94'. The ball was rolling before then. I here what your saying, but much like Bush and this mess..the buck stops with Clinton and his part, large or small.

Politics is ugly isn't it.  It's a wonder anyone goes into this shit willingly to serve.

I am in agreement that the buck does stop with the president...he is the leader and sets the tone.

[headhuntersix]

HBO did a movie on the evolution of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle..i think Cary Elwes and Rip Torn were in it..u have to see it. Its saterical but i guess very true..its everthing I just posted in a nutshell.

[OzmO]

HH6,

off subject.   What do you think of those strikers?   Are they gonna replace the M-1 and Bradley eventually?  Or will we always have a need for heavy armor?