Author Topic: How does this happen?  (Read 7776 times)

Vet

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Re: How does this happen?
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2007, 10:29:15 AM »
thats exactly right the dog is the current topic of debate on this forum.and since you got so hung up by the 100%statement that you did not respond to what my post was referring to,I'll retort the 100%.Now do you or don't you agree that if a person chooses to own an animal that attacks,or kills another human being they should be charged with felonious assault,or murder?

That depends on the animal and the individual situation--and needs to be carefully evaluated based on animal species and individual situation.  Just as an example there are many states that have passed laws acknowledging the inherent danger of riding or even being around horses that releases the horse owner or property owners (in the event of a rented barn/stall) are not liable for injury or death secondary to the routine handling of horses.  You cannot take that same attitude with horses and apply it with goats or dogs. 

Thats where I've had a problem with your initial statements----you made a very blanket statement about ALL animals.  Should viscious dog owners be held responsible---I think they should.  A charge like  assault or murder should not be a blanket charge though because it depends on the individual situation.  What if the owner is a single woman and the person the dog kills is a male trying to rape her?  Is that dog then viscous or is it protecting its owner?  Should all dogs be killed because its a specific breed?  Absolutely not, especially with a breed like pitbulls because here are SO MANY good dogs (service dogs, family pets, etc) within this breed.  Why punish the loving family pets simply because of the way a dog looks?  That doesn't make sense but thats exactly what many breed specific laws are doing.   

TrapsMcLats

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Re: How does this happen?
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2007, 10:58:17 AM »
What trab fails to realize is that while he is indeed correct that pit bulls were bred to fight dogs, and this is indeed a linebred trait that is there, but can be controlled and nullified with socialization, pit bulls were also bred for extreme loyalty to humans. any fighting dogs who showed aggression towards the owners or "cut-men" back in the day when the breed was being molded were destroyed as it was not a desireable trait.  Any pit expert, will tell you that the american pit bull terrier is the one dog that has been bred for temperment and personality and not appearance.  A well bred american pit bull terrier will never show human aggression, nor will they ever be the dogs you hear about in the news.  the problem lies with bad owners, image and bad breeding, its a dagerous mixture and can lead to a situation such as the one described in the story, although the story itself doesn't really make any sense.  take your average ghetto thug or white trash who wants a pit.  can he afford a pure bred, breed standard pit bull? No, he's spent that money on rims and meth.  So he goes to the guy a couple blocks or trailer parks away who has a litter of pups, which came from two dogs who were poorly bred, which came from a pit with a little presa or a little cane corso mixed in, which each came from inbred dogs, and each came from a bad owner which came from a bad upbringing, but hey, they can sell a bunch of pit pups and make a lot of money!!

But back to negro joe and jimmy trailer; who want their pits to look tough and provide an air of strength about them. they haven't had dogs before, but they want a pit because a pit provides an image that they want to convey.  But they get a little tired of taking care of a puppy cuz they also want more rims, grills, crack and meth... and they aren't the best people in the first place so they neglect the dogs, maybe let them wander free or just chain them up.  The dogs aren't socialized, aren't trained, are hungry, are lonely and depressed and eventually become a bit apprehensive of humans.  At this point we have the state of many pit bulls in america, which really can't be classified as pit bulls anymore, more aptly they are "image bulls."  But they still have traits of pit bulls, such as tenacity, strong jaws and athletic prowess.  Do i believe each of these dogs is an inhererent danger to the world?  probably not, but i don't think they are anywhere near as dependable as a well bred american pit bull terrier.  There are certain conistencies that dogs need in their lives to become members of society, which if you own a dog, you need to prepare a dog for the real world.  At this point though, you have many dogs out there with short hair and a big head, called pit bulls, doing things completely misrepresentative of the breed, such as the situation above, even though that story seems suspicious to say the least.

Pit bulls are the most abused and most exploited breed in the world essentially, and that is how we have arrived at the situation of the breed we have today.  That might be the simple explanation you need.

Vet

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Re: How does this happen?
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2007, 11:05:31 AM »
What trab fails to realize is that while he is indeed correct that pit bulls were bred to fight dogs, and this is indeed a linebred trait that is there, but can be controlled and nullified with socialization, pit bulls were also bred for extreme loyalty to humans. any fighting dogs who showed aggression towards the owners or "cut-men" back in the day when the breed was being molded were destroyed as it was not a desireable trait.  Any pit expert, will tell you that the american pit bull terrier is the one dog that has been bred for temperment and personality and not appearance.  A well bred american pit bull terrier will never show human aggression, nor will they ever be the dogs you hear about in the news.  the problem lies with bad owners, image and bad breeding, its a dagerous mixture and can lead to a situation such as the one described in the story, although the story itself doesn't really make any sense.  take your average ghetto thug or white trash who wants a pit.  can he afford a pure bred, breed standard pit bull? No, he's spent that money on rims and meth.  So he goes to the guy a couple blocks or trailer parks away who has a litter of pups, which came from two dogs who were poorly bred, which came from a pit with a little presa or a little cane corso mixed in, which each came from inbred dogs, and each came from a bad owner which came from a bad upbringing, but hey, they can sell a bunch of pit pups and make a lot of money!!

But back to negro joe and jimmy trailer; who want their pits to look tough and provide an air of strength about them. they haven't had dogs before, but they want a pit because a pit provides an image that they want to convey.  But they get a little tired of taking care of a puppy cuz they also want more rims, grills, crack and meth... and they aren't the best people in the first place so they neglect the dogs, maybe let them wander free or just chain them up.  The dogs aren't socialized, aren't trained, are hungry, are lonely and depressed and eventually become a bit apprehensive of humans.  At this point we have the state of many pit bulls in america, which really can't be classified as pit bulls anymore, more aptly they are "image bulls."  But they still have traits of pit bulls, such as tenacity, strong jaws and athletic prowess.  Do i believe each of these dogs is an inhererent danger to the world?  probably not, but i don't think they are anywhere near as dependable as a well bred american pit bull terrier.  There are certain conistencies that dogs need in their lives to become members of society, which if you own a dog, you need to prepare a dog for the real world.  At this point though, you have many dogs out there with short hair and a big head, called pit bulls, doing things completely misrepresentative of the breed, such as the situation above, even though that story seems suspicious to say the least.

Pit bulls are the most abused and most exploited breed in the world essentially, and that is how we have arrived at the situation of the breed we have today.  That might be the simple explanation you need.

Excellently put.   I agree 1000%  ;D

TrapsMcLats

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Re: How does this happen?
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2007, 11:32:52 AM »
Traps,  I dont disagree w/ much of that, and you seem to know these dogs and could responsibly own one.

That dont change the fact that most ppl that have them dont fit in your category.
The "Breed" is contaminated. Better they'd stayed in the hands of the old timers who fought them.

Again NOTE - Its not the Dogmen's animals involved in these maulings. Its idiots who dont have a clue what they got on their hands. 

I do responsibly own a pit bull and my girlfriend works for the SPCA and I do volunteer work there so we are both on the  "frontlines" so to speak. We see every side of the story for better or for worse

The breed is not contaminated, the american pit bull terrier is just fine.  Poorly bred dogs labled as pit bulls are the problem.  What needs to be done is some sort of bill needs to be passed, that does something about the backyard breeding epidemic, which is indeed the heart of the problem.  If you can't afford a well bred dog, you probably shouldn't own a dog.  Dogs are not a right, they are a privelidge.

Your response of the dogs being better off with the fighters is extremely cynical and i can't agree with it, but i do see where you are coming from.