Author Topic: RIP...Arthur Jones  (Read 43841 times)

D.L. 5

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #125 on: September 04, 2007, 10:00:19 PM »
How on earth could a person in your state defend HIT? That defies common sense.


I am not hot headed anymore (as i was say 5 months ago)... and do not attack and preach with zeal (which is incorrect to do).

As I am getting leaner I am realising, that I truly need to test it under the proper conditions.

I believe in the theory and also the physical workouts are toughest I have done and also I believe the extra rest is beneficial. But as I said, I realise once I am lean as hell (practically nothing but lean muscle), I will begin an 'experiment' which i will document on GETBIG and let the results be known (through both photos, measurements, poundages and muscle increase over time).

I think this will be an interesting experiment.

I would like to add I follow Mentzer H.I.T... I dont believe in the arthur jones routine. and dardaan is a bloody idiot.
JAY "OLIVE OIL" CUTLER!

Vince B

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #126 on: September 04, 2007, 10:22:33 PM »
DL5 you clearly are a lost soul. That is what happens when your cherished beliefs are challenged by others. Well, the bottom line is you have doubts. Why should you doubt Mike Mentzer? By the way, Ellington Darden, PhD, is no idiot. They don't give those degrees to people with IQ less than 25. To call someone an idiot is a personal attack. Try attacking theories, methods and statements, instead.

Why on earth would you be trying to get lean if not for competition? That is bizarre. If you can reach a near fatless state you reason you could then tell if gains are muscular. There is no need to start from that state.

You can always tell when your muscles are growing. You can measure them. If your waist remains the same size then most of the increases will be lean mass. Good luck on your extreme experiment. If you are the experimental subject who is the control? Without that your experience will be an anecdotal one and of little interest to science or Getbig. Well, unless your results are extraordinary.

I am afraid a little learning is a dangerous thing. Just about as dangerous as being an intermediate bodybuilder!

D.L. 5

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #127 on: September 04, 2007, 10:31:39 PM »
I still believe them.

But I want to see concrete results 'ON MY SELF' to 'UPPER GENETIC LIMIT' before I say it is the ultimate answer.

"FROM THE METHODS CURRENTLY AVAILABLE IT IS THE BEST" I say that already.

JAY "OLIVE OIL" CUTLER!

D.L. 5

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #128 on: September 04, 2007, 10:37:05 PM »
Well, unless your results are extraordinary.


This is my personal goal and my personal journey but thanks for ur input.

my 'experiment' as i put it, is for me to see how far i can reach, not a serious scientific study (and i never said it was....therefore it will interest others. as many others have asked me to log my progress.

why do I want to lost more fat? that should be obvious, because I am not happy with my conditioning and I am not trying to prove anything to anyone about H.I.T, I am concerned with my personal goals, which are 1- to be ripped to bits. and 2- then gain size incrementally and slowly.

I am not doing a contest I do this cos i am a bodybuilding fanatic. I may do a contest, in later years when I have built the sort of physique I want to present on stage.

You could do with some nicer manners....or then again, is what everyone else on this board says about u true..... THAT U CAN BE AN ASSHOLE!
JAY "OLIVE OIL" CUTLER!

D.L. 5

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #129 on: September 04, 2007, 10:39:18 PM »
If you can reach a near fatless state you reason you could then tell if gains are muscular. There is no need to start from that state.


I never said that. you did.

I said I will get to a fatless state. you added that extra part.
JAY "OLIVE OIL" CUTLER!

Vince B

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #130 on: September 04, 2007, 10:45:57 PM »
Okay, you are on your own.

Quote
I am not hot headed anymore (as i was say 5 months ago)... and do not attack and preach with zeal (which is incorrect to do).

 

D.L. 5

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #131 on: September 04, 2007, 10:52:33 PM »
JAY "OLIVE OIL" CUTLER!

The Luke

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #132 on: September 05, 2007, 03:58:46 AM »
Vince,

Having read your replies carefully I realise that you are not reading what anyone else is posting.

I'm out of this conversation, it's all just mental masturbation if Vince is only going to continue his quasi mystical search (all the while hinting he has the answer but won't share it) for the secret training method that gives steroid like gains even to those starving in concentration camps.

Waste of time...

The Luke

peteK

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #133 on: September 05, 2007, 04:15:29 AM »
I think that the actual method used is not that important at all. I think people will have the same type of results no matter which program they follow. I have a hard time believing that a person won't make much progress at all on one program, and then upon switching to another will all of the sudden start making wonderful gains. Of course there is such a thing as overtraining, but as long as you follow a reasonable program you will have the same progress no matter what the program. Even if one program is superior to others the difference is probably negligible.

Regarding DOMS as an indicator for progress, it is a very interesting theory. However, in my own body I have noticed that the muscle groups that always hurt the most (chest and quads) are not that good and the groups that almost never hurt (delts, biceps and lats) are my best bodyparts.

D.L. 5

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #134 on: September 05, 2007, 04:34:04 AM »
I think that the actual method used is not that important at all. I think people will have the same type of results no matter which program they follow.

STOP RIGHT THERE.

do u know how illogical that statement is. read it again.
JAY "OLIVE OIL" CUTLER!

peteK

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #135 on: September 05, 2007, 04:59:41 AM »
STOP RIGHT THERE.

do u know how illogical that statement is. read it again.

I was referring to a single person getting nearly the same type results no matter what hypertrophy oriented program they follow. For example do you think there will be a great difference in results if one and the same person did this program:

Squats 5 x 10
Leg Press 5 x 10
Leg curl 5 x 10

vs.

Squats 2 x 6-8
Leg curl 2 x 6-8

Naturally there will be SOME difference, but I think not much at all, if everything else is the same. So therefore I think that HIT can only be marginally better than other programs at best.

D.L. 5

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #136 on: September 05, 2007, 05:04:09 AM »
OK, in that case I change it into "no matter what hypertrophy oriented program they follow, as long as the parameters of the program are within reason and, as such, there is no overtraining."

much better.

dont mean to be a dick, but after vince has driven u crazy in circles...u feel the urge to do the same with others.

sadly, in regards to this issue, literally one program has to be better than another for overall results (unless of course they produce the exact same percentile of efficiency).

Vince does make a fantastic point about scientists not wasting their time with studying 'maximum hypertrophy'. if they did would be very interesting. from current methods i believe H.I.T is the only complete theory...others are an imprecise mish mash of ideas and numbers. (not specific and also full of contradictions).
JAY "OLIVE OIL" CUTLER!

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #137 on: September 05, 2007, 07:30:14 AM »
This is about Arthur Jones, not one-dimensional dogma & opinions. HIT works, so do other worthwhile programs, *IF* you follow them. True HIT as it's meant to be used has not been practiced is not followed by most here. Too tough to do or continue is the biggest issue, not efficacy-the rest is rampant speculation while ensconced comfortably behind a keyboard.

What's also interesting is that here you have a pivotal figure of the BB machine age, and you have someone in Australia who's been building machines for decades, and yet not a shred of appreciation for Jones' creations. ::)


The Rise of the Machines
NY Times Sept 2

IF you have ever found yourself in a new gym, paralyzed with fear and confusion in a landscape of sleek weight-lifting machines that look as if they might require an advanced degree in aeronautics to operate, then you can thank Arthur Jones.

Mr. Jones, who died last Tuesday at age 80, invented Nautilus exercise equipment, which helped to spur the modern exercise revolution and the rise of the gym in American life.

But as the fitness culture has evolved, how will Mr. Jones figure in the history of this American subculture? As a pioneer? Or as a wildly successful entrepreneur in the long line of American physical fitness gurus, peddlers and hucksters whose theories and machines have come and gone for generations?

The advent of Mr. Jones’s first machine more than 35 years ago, a multistation contraption he called the Blue Monster, formed a key part of the evolutionary bridge between free weights and the array of high-tech resistance equipment that populates health clubs and late-night infomercials today. Swaggering and charismatic, Mr. Jones, a ninth-grade dropout, was a master at selling his high-end products. By doing so, he accelerated the machine-oriented fitness boom.

Mr. Jones, a weight lifter himself, unveiled his first machine at a weight-lifting convention in Los Angeles in 1970, having hauled it there in a rented trailer from his home in Florida. His timing was perfect. A fitness movement was beginning to take hold in the country after the publication of “Aerobics,” in 1968, the hugely influential best seller by Dr. Kenneth Cooper that advocated running, swimming and similar exercises to condition the heart and lungs.

Mr. Jones’s Nautilus machines helped to bring strength training into the fitness mix, though he had little use for aerobic exercises, saying most were “worthless for any purpose.” He considered Dr. Cooper “a borderline idiot who knows nothing about constructive exercise,” according to an interview he gave to the Arthur Jones Exercise Web site, operated by a fan.

Like the Universal multistation gym, the Nautilus made exercise simpler. No longer was it necessary to juggle all those cumbersome plates, bars and bolts of free weights. Lifting was now a simple matter of shifting a pin on a machine’s weight stacks.

But the Nautilus went further than other machines at the time, employing a system of pulleys and cams that ensured constant resistance on a weight lifter’s muscles during the entire range of an exercise’s motion. Mr. Jones argued that this system made weight lifting more efficient than anything else on the market, and, thus, more effective. “A thinking man’s barbell,” he told Forbes magazine.

The ease of these machines made weight lifting more attractive to a broader range of people and helped move the activity from the male-dominated domain of body builders in dank Y.M.C.A. basements to today’s well-lighted fitness megacomplexes, complete with juice bars, baby-sitting nurseries and classes in Pilates Magic Circle and Warrior Flow Yoga.

By 1983, he found himself on the Forbes magazine list of the 400 richest Americans, with an estimated net worth of at least $125 million.

The fitness movement was also booming. According to the Boston-based International Health, Racquet and Sportsclub Association, there are now more than 29,000 health clubs in the United States with more than 41.3 million members.

But though Mr. Jones was lauded in obituaries last week for being a revolutionary in the science of fitness, numerous studies have found that some of his principles — using variable resistance machines rather than free weights, and single-set, high-intensity training — do not produce greater gains than conventional weight lifting.

Mr. Jones’ greatest expression of brilliance, however, may have been in his ability to promote his inventions and himself.

“He was so memorable, and he was so bright, very verbal and also combative,” said Terry Todd, a former champion weight lifter and now director of the Stark Center for Physical Culture and Sports at the University of Texas at Austin. “He had the ability to energize people and to create an aura around these Nautilus machines.”

Mr. Jones managed to get the machines into the weight rooms of several professional sports teams, which suddenly made them de rigueur for all sports teams, not to mention upscale health clubs. “You could say to other teams, ‘Oh, you know the Dolphins are training on this Nautilus and — my God — they’re making great gains and the stuff is really cutting edge’ and this and that, and you could create a kind of frenzy,” Mr. Todd said.

Mr. Jones, who sold his interest in Nautilus in 1986, never appeared to have any doubt about his influence on the exercise market, and dismissed most criticism of his inventions as the mutterings of fools.

Except for himself and an obscure 19th-century Swedish doctor named Gustav Zander, he said, “I have been unable to find any proof of any actually meaningful contributions to the field by anybody else.”

Mr. Jones was an unlikely ambassador for the fitness revolution. He chain-smoked, drank quarts of coffee every day and paid little attention to his diet. According to a 1985 profile in Time magazine, he “wore horn-rimmed glasses and ill-fitting pants” and carried a .45 Colt.

For all of Mr. Jones swagger, Brian D. Johnston, creator of the Arthur Jones Exercise Web site, said the entrepreneur became embittered in his final years and felt underappreciated by the fitness industry.

“He was pretty much fed up with the exercise industry,” said Mr. Johnston, president of the International Association of Resistance Trainers, based in Sudbury, Ontario, which teaches Mr. Jones’s principles. “He pretty much lost any interest in exercise science, pretty much survived on cigarettes, chocolate, scrambled eggs and a lot of coffee.”

Vince B

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #138 on: September 05, 2007, 06:47:59 PM »
One thing Arthur changed forever is he made doing exercise an acceptable thing even intelligent people could do. His theories were logical and well written. There was a way to exercise in an efficient and effective way. The perception was that it was possible to train briefly instead of labouring in gyms for hours as many bodybuilders were doing. In a real sense his method was the antithesis of bodybuilding and his machines were purchased by clubs and fitness centers. Most hard core gyms did not install Nautilus machines. The whole concept of what a gym or fitness center is changed because of Arthur and now all clubs install machines similar to what Arthur invented and built.

I remember training at Golds Gym in Venice in 1991 for a couple of weeks. What a lot of people might not know is equipment companies gave lines of gym equipment to that gym because it was literally a showroom for other Golds Gym owners who would go there and then make decisions about which equipment to purchase. You would have lines of Cybex, Flex, Icarian, Hammer and Nautilus equipment. Those doing calves, for example, would have to move to many parts of the gym to access the machines because each brand had all their machines together. I noticed that the Nautilus machines were not used much by the bodybuilders. I could always find those machines in the second big room more or less unused. You would have trouble getting on most equipment in the first and third rooms. So, whatever you want to say about Nautilus machines, they were never embraced universally by most bodybuilders. Ray Mentzer noticed this, too, and said most bodybuilders were stupid. Ray also laughed at all the so-called personal trainers. He and Mike trained heaps of guys for a month or so and then these guys felt they were qualified as personal trainers.

The bodybuilders in my gym use free weights and pulley machines for back and arms. They do use some of the Nautilus machines but this would be the exception and not the rule. There you are. Arthur started the gym equipment revolution but the thickheads who lift weights religiously never believed all that stuff Arthur said and they never accepted Nautilus machines. That really is bizarre. It is part of the reason Arthur washed his hands of bodybuilders. That, and because of the politics in bodybuilding contests that saw superior black guys losing to not-as-good guys like Arnold.

I don't feel that I contributed much to gym equipment design because I have a gym in a suburb of Sydney. I am one of the few who built a machine that Arthur gave up trying to create. That is my biceps-supinator machine. I read about Arthur's account of the two main functions of the biceps and how no machine provides resistance for both flexion and supination or rotation of the wrists inwards and upwards. I did call Arthur and talked to him about my inventions and we had an interesting conversation. I sent him photos of my machine last year through Larry Evans. A pity I never got to talk to Arthur again before he died.

I guess Arthur influenced many of us re exercise and gym equipment. I have been influenced more than others because I still design my own gym equipment. I can't say this enterprise has been profitable but it has been interesting because it is very challenging to design new machines that work and later you see people in your gym using them and thanking you for what you made. It is far cheaper to buy gym equipment. When you build your own from scratch and not copy anyone it usually takes at least 3 prototypes to get it right. After the 5th machine you pretty well have it spot on. I doubt people out there realise this. That is why Arthur and myself resent other manufacturers copying us. They are stealing all that thought and work that went into getting it right. What amuses me is most other designers probably don't appreciate what good designs are and they end up changing critical things that should have been retained. You can see this in the latest Nautilus machines that were changed from the original machines. They now have a lat pulldown machine that you pull down from in front of you. I was told that these machines have been beta tested and selected because it mimicked what apes do in the jungle. Good grief, I thought, it doesn't feel good to pull down like that. The machine Arthur made back in the 80's was much better and it had a motion that was a perfect arc. They no longer build that machine but it had a lever with a counterbalance on it and you sat in the middle under two handles above you. That was a great machine but has been replaced by what I consider a silly design. I know Arthur would have shaken his head by what happened to many of his ideas in that company.

Arthur has left a legacy and who knows where it will all end. He was a giant in an industry that eventually touched most of us directly or indirectly. It is a pity that he wasn't honoured in his lifetime the way Joe Weider was. Who will ever forget that day Arthur had Joe in his headquarters and he challenged Joe about where his research facility was. Joe had to be nimble and his answer was amusing, "Arthur, can I go to the bathroom?" That might not be exactly what he said but that is the gist of the story Ray Mentzer related to me.

Another trick Arthur would do was fly in heaps of people to his facility in his private jet. Upon landing at his private strip in Jumbolair he would turn the air conditioning off and leave the people sweltering in their seats for perhaps half an hour. Then these distressed people would be escorted past dangerous crocodiles until they reached where Arthur was. Ray said this was Arthur's way of preparing people so they would be putty in his hands. I don't doubt Arthur could have pulled stunts like this. Arthur preferred not to have much resistance when pontificating about his theories and equipment.

I have to laugh at the phone call I made to Arthur in 1994. I was telling him about my biceps supinator machine and we had a lively conversation. I had my ex listening in on the other line. I told Arthur I would like to visit him one day and have a great talk. He didn't mind a bit. He said, "Make sure you bring two 14 year old girls with you!" I told him not to encourage me because I was bad enough as it was. I always wondered why 14? Arthur sure was irreverent and did his own thing. He did say he preferred younger women, faster planes and bigger crocodiles.

They did an interview on Arthur on 60 Minutes many years ago about this cavalier guy. He sure was interesting to listen to. He told the reporter at the end to come and visit him and he would teach him a thing or two. Yes, that is the Arthur I remember and liked.

D.L. 5

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #139 on: September 05, 2007, 07:37:52 PM »
which modern day brand of machine is best in ur opinion?

where is the best place in aus to get machines?
JAY "OLIVE OIL" CUTLER!

Vince B

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #140 on: September 05, 2007, 08:10:22 PM »
I doubt any one company makes the best machines. What many gym owners do is select particular pieces of gym equipment that have reputations as being superior. This can be misleading, too, because equipment such as Hammer gets a reputation from bodybuilders who like one or two pieces and some gyms install the whole Hammer line which really isn't getting the best equipment. You can attend the fitness trade shows that are annual events in Sydney in the fall. Otherwise keep an eye out for auctions and go along and try equipment. You can do the same thing and visit different gyms and have workouts there and make up your own mind about how good machines are.

A severe test about equipment is to warm up and then use a heavy resistance. If the machine is friendly to the joints it will still feel good. If not you will instantly tell then. Many machines feel okay when using light resistances. A good machine will have plenty of weight on the stack and adjustments to accommodate different sized people. A good gym might install different pieces of the same machine for women and men.

Most companies haven't a clue about making an assisted dip-chin machine and don't have an arc which is required by the movement. If the movement goes straight up and down look for another company. My chinning machine recently accommodated a 210Kg woman who did chins by herself for the first time in her life and was pleased she could do it.

A warning about gym owners. They are even more expert than the guys here on Getbig. Some sell better machines than they retain.
Arthur told me that he preferred to associate with criminals than gym owners! He said the criminals were a better class of people than gym owners!

Since this is a thread about Arthur Jones, have a look at the Medx range. I liked many of them, especially the shoulder machine and the triceps machine. The triceps machine is the only one that gives you plenty of resistance in the near extended position. The biceps machine was okay, too. Lots of good designs there and nicely made machines they are, too.


D.L. 5

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #141 on: September 05, 2007, 09:06:07 PM »
I am in Melbourne.

I wish I had more space in my house I would build my own gym but my new house just does not have the space I need.

My dream set up would be a Smith Machine, lat pulldown, dipping bars, hack squat machine and a leg press (I would use this for calves mainly), and a leg extension machine.

In fact, After my next workout at my commercial gym I will see what brand machines they use and let u know to see what u think of the brand.

What is ur opinion on those home gyms which have the lat pull down, pec deck and leg extension in one unit? are they generally bad quality?
JAY "OLIVE OIL" CUTLER!

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #142 on: September 06, 2007, 10:35:17 AM »
vince does your supinator machine provide progressive resistance to supination of the wirsts?

knny187

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #143 on: September 06, 2007, 10:43:04 AM »

Knny187 presents a theory which states that everyone is different so methods must be different. The reality is far from that. If it were true then exercise science would be pointless let alone debating anything about muscles.


Uhm..not a theory

any exercise will provide results.....but....some people respond differently with applied loads, reps, sets

You can't argue the fact behind metabolisms, body compositions, muscle fibers, etcc....

Otherwise.....


everyone in the gym that trained would look just like you

 ;)

D.L. 5

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #144 on: September 06, 2007, 04:39:35 PM »
Uhm..not a theory

any exercise will provide results.....but....some people respond differently with applied loads, reps, sets


people gentically cope with the stress with varying success.

the method which is best is stimulus (eg- h.i.t) the response to that stimulus depends upon genetics.
JAY "OLIVE OIL" CUTLER!

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #145 on: September 10, 2007, 05:35:18 PM »
I think we can talk about the contributions of Arthur Jones and comment on what has happened to theories he presented. Those of us who were current with what Arthur wrote did wonder if his principles would spread to the bodybuilders. It never happened. Just about everyone uses volume of one kind or another. Arthur's dream of brief workouts was wishful thinking. That is not what big muscles are for. The relationship between strength and large size diminishes beyond a certain size. There after it is related to muscular endurance and thus, volume, and not intensity is the key factor. What seemed to make sense when Arthur wrote about it turned out not to be what was found in bodybuilders.

His theories were logical and well written.

Why are you contradicting yourself?
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Vince B

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #146 on: September 11, 2007, 12:42:12 AM »
Being logical and reasonable doesn't necessarily mean you are right. A false premise can lead to true and false conclusions.

There is no doubt Arthur would be able to 'correct' us if he argued with us. That is the way the guy was. Unfortunately for hypertrophy theory and bodybuilding, it is unlikely that HIT explains all growth and lack of growth and it doesn't generate maximum hypertrophy without Arthur personally supervising guys like Sergio.

It saddens me that so many accept his ideas without testing them. If rapid growth doesn't follow from using this method then abandon the method and try something else. That is what Arthur would have done. His disciples haven't a clue about that principle. If it works it is useful; if it doesn't work, then try something else. This is the real Arthur Jones method. That he wrote about things so clearly probably brainwashed a generation of thinking bodybuilders. None of them have achieved much at all re competitions. Arthur promised that the time to reach one's peak would be halved or less if following Nautilus principles. That was a pipedream. Missing is the volume requirement in the formula. Without volume there is no maximum hypertrophy. His disciples can shout all they like but that is a fact to those who have tested the methods. Scientists are not interested in this phenomenon. Big muscles have always been taboo at colleges and universities. Nothing has changed or is likely to change re attitudes to musclemen.

Believing something doesn't make it true. Thankfully, the majority of muscleheads plod along using tried and tested methods. Too bad so many use drugs. Nowadays the training doesn't seem as important now that so many gurus advocate drug stacking and other nonsense. The sport is so far from natural it isn't funny.

The Luke

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #147 on: September 11, 2007, 06:51:30 PM »
Vince,


Honestly I thought you were just argument mongering.... but now I see that you're simply a bit behind the times with regard to how HIT has evolved and self-corrected over the years: it's a working theory...

The requirement regarding muscular endurance has been addressed in scientific studies only to show that there is NO requirement for muscular endurance in hypertrophy stimulation... the growth attributable to volume training has more to do with metabolic demand than muscular stimulus.

For example:
Those training with Mike Mentzer's Heavy Duty often found their progress grind to a halt after a few months of fantastic progress... for most that was a result of the body still being metabolically stimulated by the demands of volume training and the increased muscular stimulation from short workouts. For a few hardgainers (those of frail constitution and/or suffering underlying metabolic complications) Heavy Duty continues to work as the bodily stress is still sufficient. That's why Heavy Duty has turned quite a few 120 lb weaklings into 200 lb muscle men with 17 min workouts every two weeks.

Similarly those using HIT who decided to opt for split-body workouts also found their progress grind to a halt... seems there just isn't any method of stimulating continuous growth with a calf/bicep workout: no metabolic demand.

True HIT advocates never experienced this as Arthur Jones expounded the logical argument for whole body workouts every chance he got...


One set workouts alone are not sufficient to stimulate continuous progress... there are other requirements, Dr Ellington Darden has integrated these into HIT theory over the years:
-whole body workouts
-limited frequency (three 30 min workouts per week, two 30 min workouts for advanced trainees)
-squatting and/or deadlifting in each and every workout
-multijoint compound exercises for all the major muscle groups
-intense contractions
-sufficient rest (including the occasional layoff if necessary)
-heavy weights

...integrating ALL these principles into ones workouts will yield continuous progress EVEN for the natural trainee.

Seems all this time we've been searching for the one and only cause of muscular hypertrophy when we should have been looking for the COMBINATION of stimuli responsible... come to think about it, we should have known multiple factors were involved as neither marathon runners, sprinters nor manual workers build musclebound physiques: obviously neither volume, nor intensity nor frequency alone are sufficient.

Big muscles are best built by muscular contractions of sufficient intensity to cause systemic stress.

Hence, big muscles are best built by the modern version of HIT...


There are certain provisos though... HIT demands more of its disciples than most are capable of giving. I've lost a few training partners to the lure of no-progress volume workouts... apparently one of the side-effects of a couple months of puke-inducing workouts is a sudden burning desire to trade bodybuilding for ping-pong.

One of the latest articles by Ellington on www.drdarden.com addresses the biggest drawback of HIT... the need for Arthur Jones to supervise your workouts.


The Luke

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #148 on: September 12, 2007, 04:35:22 PM »
Vince,

Having read your replies carefully I realise that you are not reading what anyone else is posting.


Agreed; this is what discredits Vince; he's basically preaching, talking at others. Not very interesting, especially from someone who professes to like and wish for higher levels of discourse on getbig. He could do better, then it would be more interesting.

WOOO

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Re: RIP...Arthur Jones
« Reply #149 on: September 12, 2007, 07:23:34 PM »
Agreed; this is what discredits Vince; he's basically preaching, talking at others. Not very interesting, especially from someone who professes to like and wish for higher levels of discourse on getbig. He could do better, then it would be more interesting.



at least vince doesn't use a bowflex and pretrend to be a training mod... old homo