Author Topic: Bollinger scores one for the Ivies: although some Columbia students are pussies  (Read 1024 times)

Al-Gebra

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If today proves anything, it will be that there is an enormous amount of work ahead of us,” he said, referring to the “critical and complex” role of Iran in world geopolitics.

In a remarkable and wide-ranging talk, with Mr. Ahmadinejad sitting just feet from him, Mr. Bollinger gave a passionate defense of free speech.

Mr. Bollinger said that since 2003, the World Leaders Forum had been a “major forum for robust debate” on global issues. “It should never be thought that merely to listen to ideas we deplore” implies an endorsement of those ideas or a naïveté about the potential dangers of those ideas, he said.

“To those who believe that this event should never have happened, that it is inappropriate for the university to conduct such an event, I want to say that I understand your perspective and respect it as reasonable.” He said, “It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment.” He added, “This is the right thing to do and indeed, it is required by the existing norms of free speech, of Columbia University” and of academic institutions.

He added that he regretted if people were hurt by the speech, and he called for the “intellectual and emotional courage” to “confront the mind of evil.”

As academic institutions, he added, “We cannot make war or peace. We can only make minds.”

Mr. Bollinger then confronted Mr. Ahmadinejad on the crackdown of Iran’s scholars and intellectuals. He asserted that Iran had a poor human rights record and that “Iran leads the world in executing minors.” He also spoke of a “wider crackdown” on student activists, including the jailing and forced retirement of scholars.

Mr. Bollinger asked Mr. Ahmadinejad: “Mr. President, you exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator, and so I ask you, and so I ask you, why have women, members of the Baha’i faith, homosexuals and so many of our academic colleagues become targets of persecution in your country?”

He asked whether Mr. Ahmadinejad was using a nuclear confrontation with the West to distract from his incompetent leadership at home. He also asked to be allowed to lead a delegation of scholars to Iran to speak freely, as Mr. Ahmadinejad can do today.

He confronted Mr. Ahmadinejad over his description of the Holocaust as “a fabricated legend,” calling him either “brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated.” He called Columbia a world center of Jewish studies that since the 1930s has provided a home for Jewish refugees. He called the Holocaust “the most documented event in human history.”

In the style of a relentless cross-examination, Mr. Bollinger confronted Mr. Ahmadinejad over his statements about wiping Israel “off the face of the map” and on allegations that Iran has provided financing and support to terrorist groups.

“Why do you support well-documented terrorist organizations that continue to strike at peace and democracy in the Middle East, destroying lives and the civil society of the region?” he asked.

Mr. Bollinger, finally, confronted Iran about its aid to Shiite militias in Iraq and about its nuclear buildup.

“You continue to defy the world body” by claiming peaceful intent in a nuclear program while the world expresses concern about Iran’s military aims, Mr. Bollinger said.

Mr. Bollinger concluded: “Frankly, and in all candor Mr. President, I doubt that you will have the intellectual courage to answer these questions, but your avoiding them will in itself be meaningful to us. I do expect you to exhibit the fanatical mind-set that characterizes what you say and do.”

He added that he believed Mr. Ahmadinejad’s failure to provide answers would only undermine the hard-line regime’s power in Iran.

“Today I feel all the weight of the modern civilized world yearning to express the revulsion at what you stand for,” Mr. Bollinger told Mr. Ahmadinejad. “I only wish I could do better.”

The auditorium erupted in thunderous applause.

Al-Gebra

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here's ahmadinejad's response.  apparently, he does not get the irony of his statements. see 2nd para

Mr. Ahmadinejad began: “At the outset, I want to complain a bit about the person (BOLLINGER) who read this political statement against me. In Iran, tradition requires that when we invite a person to be a speaker, we actually respect our students and the professors by allowing them to make their own judgment and we don’t think it’s necessary before the speech is even given to come in with a series of claims…”

The room erupted in applause.

Mr. Ahmadinejad added: “…and to attempt to provide a vaccination of sorts to our faculty and students. The text, more than addressing me, was an insult to the audience here. In a university environment, we must allow people to speak their mind, to allow everyone to talk, so that the truth is eventually revealed by all.”

Al-Gebra

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here's the caliber of mind we're dealing with:

In response to a question about the treatment of homosexuals in Iran, Mr. Ahmadinejad was initially evasive, instead talking about the death penalty, which, he pointed out, exists in the United States. “People who violate the laws by using guns, creating insecurity selling guns, distributing guns at a high level are sentenced to execution in Iran,” he said. “Very few of these punishments are carried out in the public eye.”

Pressed by Dean Coatsworth on the original question about the rights of gay men and lesbians in Iran, Mr. Ahmadinejad said: “In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country. We don’t have that in our country.”

The audience booed and hissed loudly. Some laughed, uncomfortably.

“In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon,” Mr. Ahmadinejad continued, undeterred. “I do not know who has told you that we have it. But as for women, maybe you think that maybe being a woman is a crime. It’s not a crime to be a woman. Women are the best creatures created by God. They represent the kindness, the beauty that God instills in them. Women are respected in Iran.”

Al-Gebra

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some half-truths here:

Mr. Ahmadinejad took up the issues of Israel and the Holocaust, among the most explosive issues he has discussed. He said:

    You know that my main job is as a university instructor. Right now, as president of Iran, I still continue teaching graduate and Ph.D.-level courses on a weekly basis. My students are working with me in scientific fields. I believe that I am an academic myself, so I speak to you from an academic point of view. And I raise two questions. But instead of a response, I got a wave of insults and allegations against me. And regretfully, they came mostly from groups who claimed most to believe in the freedom of speech and of information.

    You know quite well that Palestine is an old wound –- as old as 60 years. For 60 years, these people are displaced. For 60 years, they are being killed. For 60 years, on a daily basis there’s conflict and terror, for 60 years, innocent women and children are destroyed and killed by helicopters and airplanes that rake the houses over their heads. Children in schools are being tortured, for 60 years, the slogan of expansionism, from the Nile to the Euphrates, has been chanted.

    Given that the Holocaust is a present reality of our time, a history that occurred, why is there not sufficient research that can approach the topic from different perspectives?

Interestingly, Mr. Ahmadinejad did not call the Holocaust a “myth,” as he has in the past, but instead argued that the Palestinians were paying the price for other people’s crimes:

    We need to still question whether the Palestinian people should be paying for it or not. After all, it happened in Europe. The Palestinian people had no role in it. Why is it that the Palestinian people are paying the price for an event they had nothing to do with?

    They had no role to play in World War II. They were living with the Jewish and Christian communities in peace at the time. They didn’t have any problems. Today, too, Jews, Christians and Muslims live in brotherhood in many parts of the world. Why is it that Palestinians should pay a price -– innocent Palestinians -– for five million people to remain displaced and refugees abroad, for 60 years? Is this not a crime? Is asking about these crimes a crime in itself? Why should an academic like myself face insults for asking questions like this?

JOHN MATRIX

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some half-truths here:


Interestingly, Mr. Ahmadinejad did not call the Holocaust a “myth,” as he has in the past, but instead argued that the Palestinians were paying the price for other people’s crimes:

    We need to still question whether the Palestinian people should be paying for it or not. After all, it happened in Europe. The Palestinian people had no role in it. Why is it that the Palestinian people are paying the price for an event they had nothing to do with?

    They had no role to play in World War II. They were living with the Jewish and Christian communities in peace at the time. They didn’t have any problems. Today, too, Jews, Christians and Muslims live in brotherhood in many parts of the world. Why is it that Palestinians should pay a price -– innocent Palestinians -– for five million people to remain displaced and refugees abroad, for 60 years? Is this not a crime? Is asking about these crimes a crime in itself? Why should an academic like myself face insults for asking questions like this?
on this part at least, he has a good point

Al-Gebra

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on this part at least, he has a good point

and how would you know that?

drkaje

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He made some valid points. Valid points don't matter much to the general public. The "why should the Palestinians have to pay for Germany's crimes" question isn't new at all. It's moot at this point, eventually they'll either find a way to live together or keep killing each other.

That being said he should have agreed to allowing nuclear inspections as soon as Israel does, LOL!

So much bullshitting goes on with these events by both sides that they are essentially useless. The guy only came here to delay the US invasion by a year or three. If they can play nice until Bush is gone it will be pretty hard for the US to mount another war from a political point of view. That being said.... we're so close the re-deployment issues really wouldn't come into play.

Camel Jockey

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tis moi ambition to attend colombia or stern business schools as a grad one day...

Fury

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If Palestine wants that land back, go and take it. What happened to the days when someone wanted a territory, they went an conquered it? They've tried twice to get that land back and failed miserably. As far as I'm concerned, it ain't theirs no mo!

Camel Jockey

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If Palestine wants that land back, go and take it. What happened to the days when someone wanted a territory, they went an conquered it? They've tried twice to get that land back and failed miserably. As far as I'm concerned, it ain't theirs no mo!

Of course as Israel is a collection of smart folks, while the arabs = not so much.

Arabs should shut the fuck up, along with pakis(who are their greatest supporters).

Fury

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Re: Bollinger scores one for the Ivies: although some Columbia students are puss
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2007, 08:04:07 PM »
Of course as Israel is a collection of smart folks, while the arabs = not so much.

Arabs should shut the fuck up, along with pakis(who are their greatest supporters).

Last time those douche bag Palestinians had Jerusalem, you couldn't go in there without getting murdered or fucked up. I don't think anyone besides the queer bags in the middle east want to see them get "their" land back.

To think they still bitch after Israel fought those clowns off multiple times, while conquering more land. Then again, when you live in mud huts and gross $0.35 a year, they need to find something to bitch about. Nevermind Hamas running the Gaza Strip into the ground with their bullshit.  ::)

Al-Gebra

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Re: Bollinger scores one for the Ivies: although some Columbia students are puss
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2007, 08:18:46 PM »

all of the afternoon's festivities were relayed live to the middle east . . . it's easy to guess how it played there.

"Great American Satans insulted our president . . . etc., etc."




wonder if all these bad feelings come to a head in a world war.

Iran-Iraq border skirmish w U.S. troops spills over . . . . Israel gets involved.

at which point Syria might jump in . . . which could result in Damascus "vanishing from the pages of time" . . .

and then the entire Middle East melts down, internally and externally. 

Muslims and "Christians" have fought since the infancy of Islam . . . and things are not getting any better.

drkaje

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Re: Bollinger scores one for the Ivies: although some Columbia students are puss
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2007, 04:07:54 AM »
If Palestine wants that land back, go and take it. What happened to the days when someone wanted a territory, they went an conquered it? They've tried twice to get that land back and failed miserably. As far as I'm concerned, it ain't theirs no mo!

Are you suggesting the Palestinians should have a few million of their people killed and then complain to the UN for a homeland? :)

militarymuscle69

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Re: Bollinger scores one for the Ivies: although some Columbia students are puss
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2007, 06:30:28 AM »
here's the caliber of mind we're dealing with:

In response to a question about the treatment of homosexuals in Iran, Mr. Ahmadinejad was initially evasive, instead talking about the death penalty, which, he pointed out, exists in the United States. “People who violate the laws by using guns, creating insecurity selling guns, distributing guns at a high level are sentenced to execution in Iran,” he said. “Very few of these punishments are carried out in the public eye.”

Pressed by Dean Coatsworth on the original question about the rights of gay men and lesbians in Iran, Mr. Ahmadinejad said: “In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country. We don’t have that in our country.”

The audience booed and hissed loudly. Some laughed, uncomfortably.

“In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon,” Mr. Ahmadinejad continued, undeterred. “I do not know who has told you that we have it. But as for women, maybe you think that maybe being a woman is a crime. It’s not a crime to be a woman. Women are the best creatures created by God. They represent the kindness, the beauty that God instills in them. Women are respected in Iran.”

Sounds like Iran isn't such a bad place, I'm glad he said that, maybe the gays in America will go over there to raise a fuss.
gotta love life

militarymuscle69

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Re: Bollinger scores one for the Ivies: although some Columbia students are puss
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2007, 06:33:48 AM »
If Palestine wants that land back, go and take it. What happened to the days when someone wanted a territory, they went an conquered it? They've tried twice to get that land back and failed miserably. As far as I'm concerned, it ain't theirs no mo!

Let me guess...unless it is the US that wants to do that?
gotta love life

Nordic Superman

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Re: Bollinger scores one for the Ivies: although some Columbia students are puss
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2007, 07:00:08 AM »
Haha, this is hilarious, the absolute lack of common sense and intelligence in some of you lefties is comical.

Even after being humiliated on irrefutable points you STILL big the Iranian president up.

How fucking jolly!
الاسلام هو شيطانية

drkaje

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They probably don't have homosexuals as a matter of law. There being no homosexuals seems statistically impossible but I'm pretty sure the practice of homosexuality is forbidden.

But I really can't appreciate any real difference between a Christian/Islamic fundamentalists views on homosexuality.

Nordic Superman

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Re: Bollinger scores one for the Ivies: although some Columbia students are puss
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2007, 11:17:20 AM »
They probably don't have homosexuals as a matter of law. There being no homosexuals seems statistically impossible but I'm pretty sure the practice of homosexuality is forbidden.

But I really can't appreciate any real difference between a Christian/Islamic fundamentalists views on homosexuality.

It is a fact that there are gays in iran.

I don't even know why i'm entertaining your stupidity here... Still fucking protecting his statements down to the wire.

Absolutely disgusting.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Al-Gebra

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Re: Bollinger scores one for the Ivies: although some Columbia students are puss
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2007, 06:01:55 PM »
Ahmadinejad gets an earful

September 25, 2007

Last September, a jaunty Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad set New York abuzz. He held court at a UN conference hall and was treated to some fawning coverage that described his quirky sartorial tastes as if he were some sort of fascinating, Internet billionaire eccentric.

That was before his country busted through two sets of UN Security Council sanctions on its outlaw nuclear program, asserting his nation didn't "give a damn" about UN resolutions.

That was before Iranian-supplied roadside bombs began killing more and more Americans in Iraq.

Before his country sponsored a Holocaust denial conference.

Before he arrested Iranian-Americans on trumped up charges of fomenting revolution, seized 15 British Marines and sailors as hostages and launched what Newsweek called a "full-scale campaign of intimidation" against thousands of Iranians, many of them women detained by the police because their clothing or makeup fell short of the regime's standards.

Before the government confiscated satellite dishes -- Iranians' main link to the outside world -- and violently stilled political dissent.

Not that Ahmadinejad was a prince before his visit last September. But it does seem that the world in the last year has awaken to the threat posed by Iran.

On Monday, Ahmadinejad arrived in New York to the kind of blistering reception he richly deserved. The New York Daily News headlined: "The Evil Has Landed." There were loud protests about giving "a terrorist" a platform to speak at Columbia University.

Columbia President Lee Bollinger defended the university's invitation, calling it a matter of free speech and academic freedom. The value of that invitation was on display Monday. The world has heard Ahmadinejad before, but Ahmadinejad probably had never been confronted, face-to-face, with such a succinct indictment of him and his nation.

Bollinger called Ahmadinejad's behavior that of a "petty and cruel dictator," and excoriated him for being "brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated" about the Holocaust. Bollinger cited Iran's support of terrorist organizations and its "proxy war" against U.S. troops in Iraq.

Ahmadinejad had no answers. He smiled a lot. He tried to appear reasonable, to strike a soothing tone. He denied that Iran was supplying arms to insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan and told "60 Minutes" that Iran had no need for a nuclear weapon.

But he wouldn't directly answer when he was asked if he still sought the destruction of Israel, which he has called "a disgraceful blot" to be "wiped off the map." He said Iran would not launch an attack on Israel or any other country, claiming "we are friends with the Jewish people." He tiptoed around the Holocaust, appearing to deny his denial that it happened.

Columbia made the right decision to invite Ahmadinejad. He couldn't duck a devastating indictment of his nation. He was free to defend himself, and he couldn't.